Keg Force Carbing Methods Illustrated

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Hello all,

I just read all 52 pages of this thread......wow, thanks bobby! Being new to brewing I do have one question though....
If I'm shooting for a balanced system and using 10' of 3/16" line on say 10-12lbs of psi does it matter what kind of end I have on it? Can I use a picnic tap on that or would I have to use something else?

I am using a picnic tap on the end of 10' @12psi and it works great.
 
This includes no shaking correct? I can just set it to 12 once it's cold with no shaking and wait a week or 2 and it'll be good?
 
This includes no shaking correct? I can just set it to 12 once it's cold with no shaking and wait a week or 2 and it'll be good?


Likely it will be closer to 2-3 weeks. However, 1 week might be good enough for your tastes. It never hurts to sample every now and then. :mug:

Also, @ 12 PSI, be careful of putting your temps too low. C02 volume might be too high if your temps are in the mid to low 30s. Of course, this depends on your style of beer too.
 
I read some of this when I first started kegging and then took some advice from my LHBS and came up with my own strategy that's worked pretty well so far. I hook it up at 30 psi and lay it on it's side and roll it back and forth until it stops hissing. This is when it's already cold, BTW, I put it in the night before I start carbing. I then put it up for a few minutes and come back and do this a couple of times. I leave it overnight ~12-16 hrs and then turn it down to pouring pressure. It's usually pretty good by day 3 and optimal by days 5-7.
 
I've been looking for a link to one of these forever. Anyone ever used one? I mentioned this whole thread to the owner of my LHBS a while back and he raised an eyebrow to having to balance line length. He asked "if it's such a big deal, why do these exist?"


http://morebeer.com/view_product/5582//Ball_Lock_QD_Faucet_Assembly

Companies make a lot of products that are not "the right way" I fought foamy taps for years and was never able to get good advice at my LHBS nor the beer distributors. I even called a bar supply company years ago and they could not tell me whay at any pressure I have foam. I put a 10' on per this thread and problems went away. So try both and let us know what works for you.
 
I've been looking for a link to one of these forever. Anyone ever used one? I mentioned this whole thread to the owner of my LHBS a while back and he raised an eyebrow to having to balance line length. He asked "if it's such a big deal, why do these exist?"

http://morebeer.com/view_product/5582//Ball_Lock_QD_Faucet_Assembly

Technically, those would work at a lower serving pressure. It would be nice for an outdoor party or something like that. The purpose of longer lines and "balancing" the system is so you can serve with the same pressure required to keep proper C02 volumes.
 
Yeah, the only way to use those mounted faucets is to temporarily drop the pressure. It's a compromise for having a portable serving system but it's not a valid argument for leaving all draft systems unbalanced. Screw that snarky LHBS guy. Coopers sells a million prehopped extract kits and I don't think they should be made either.
 
Quick question I'm hoping someone can shed some light on:

I erroneously left my freshly kegged Franziskaner clone at 28 PSI for a couple days (no shaking, just set it and left it) before dropping it down to 18 PSI. Now, a week later (2 days at 28 PSI and 5 days at 18 PSI), I wasn't expecting it to be ready carbonation-wise given the time it took with the Pliny clone I put on at 12 PSI, but lo and behold it actually already tastes and feels great!

I'm curious: might a couple days at a higher PSI, followed by 4-5 days at serving pressure, act as an effective means of speeding up the set it and forget it method of keg carbing?

(P.S. With 10 foot lines 18 PSI is pushing the the limits of serving pressure for my setup, but I've found that if I half or three-quarters cock the tap handle, I can still get a really nice pour with a solid but not excessive head; I have the Pliny clone at 14 PSI now, as the original 12 PSI poured a little slow and after two weeks was not carbed enough for my tastes).
 
I'm curious: might a couple days at a higher PSI, followed by 4-5 days at serving pressure, act as an effective means of speeding up the set it and forget it method of keg carbing?

See my post #503, I have a very similar method I describe very clearly there. It takes me about 24hrs to have a carb good enough to drink, and stable in 3-5 days right where I want it with that procedure. I call it boost carbing. But there is no shaking involved.
 
Quick question I'm hoping someone can shed some light on:

I erroneously left my freshly kegged Franziskaner clone at 28 PSI for a couple days (no shaking, just set it and left it) before dropping it down to 18 PSI. Now, a week later (2 days at 28 PSI and 5 days at 18 PSI), I wasn't expecting it to be ready carbonation-wise given the time it took with the Pliny clone I put on at 12 PSI, but lo and behold it actually already tastes and feels great!

I'm curious: might a couple days at a higher PSI, followed by 4-5 days at serving pressure, act as an effective means of speeding up the set it and forget it method of keg carbing?

(P.S. With 10 foot lines 18 PSI is pushing the the limits of serving pressure for my setup, but I've found that if I half or three-quarters cock the tap handle, I can still get a really nice pour with a solid but not excessive head; I have the Pliny clone at 14 PSI now, as the original 12 PSI poured a little slow and after two weeks was not carbed enough for my tastes).

Good thought. I will do either 2 or 3 days at 30 psi at 34 F, then drop to 12 psi for the remainder of a total of 7 days and test the beer.

I think I read shaking to carbonate can cause "fish eyes", but did shake 3 times early on kegging, and never got them - fish eyes are are some sort of contamination I believe.
 
Thanks much, CidahMastah! This should be especially helpful for beers like this hefe that can be enjoyed young without affecting the flavor much.

Say I try this method again around 30 PSI for a couple days, followed by serving pressure to round up to a week: is burping the keg necessary (I'm not sure that I did this time, though I honestly can't recall) or can I just turn down the pressure on the regulator without detaching the gas line? I guess I'm just unclear as to the physics of what might occur if I just leave the line attached and adjust the pressure downward.
 
Good thought. I will do either 2 or 3 days at 30 psi at 34 F, then drop to 12 psi for the remainder of a total of 7 days and test the beer.

I think I read shaking to carbonate can cause "fish eyes", but did shake 3 times early on kegging, and never got them - fish eyes are are some sort of contamination I believe.

The only fish eye contamination I know of, speaking as a woodworker, is during the finishing process of a piece. Never heard of a contamination called this in brewing. What is it?
 
FWIW, for those who don't cold crash I've used the following method for my last four beers in a row with success.

1. Put keg just filled with room temp beer in the kegerator (temp of my kegerator is 40 degrees F).
2. Set gas to 50 PSI (don't hook up the pouring line yet if you're using picnic taps - mine leak when under this much pressure).
3. Just less than a day later (~20 hours), turn gas off, burp, turn gas back on at serving pressure and hook up the pouring line.

The beer is at a pretty drinkable carbonation level already. It gets better with age, but if you want to drink the beer in a hurry, this method has worked great for me.

I know others have already described similar methods, but wanted to give a +1.
 
FWIW, for those who don't cold crash I've used the following method for my last four beers in a row with success.

1. Put keg just filled with room temp beer in the kegerator (temp of my kegerator is 40 degrees F).
2. Set gas to 50 PSI (don't hook up the pouring line yet if you're using picnic taps - mine leak when under this much pressure).
3. Just less than a day later (~20 hours), turn gas off, burp, turn gas back on at serving pressure and hook up the pouring line.

The beer is at a pretty drinkable carbonation level already. It gets better with age, but if you want to drink the beer in a hurry, this method has worked great for me.

I know others have already described similar methods, but wanted to give a +1.

I don't understand where this applies to those who don't cold crash. Am I missing something? :)

Also, If you don't cold crash you are essentially cold crashing after the keg has been in the kegerator for any period of time at 40 or lower. Then, you would just have to server a pint or two of sediment. Pretty similar to cold crashing.

I've run into many homebrews where people were disappointed with their beer because they were judging the beer off of the first pour or two. It's very obvious with the clarity and yeast bitterness.


But to your carbonation method, this could definitely work. I am just not comfortable with my used cornies at 50 PSI. Just a fear of mine (Although nothing wrong with it).
 
I think he is just saying that the beer is starting out at room temp and therefore wont be at 40F for the full 20 hrs. Thus, it won't carbonate as much as it would if it were at 40F before going into the keg from the cold crash.
 
I think he is just saying that the beer is starting out at room temp and therefore wont be at 40F for the full 20 hrs. Thus, it won't carbonate as much as it would if it were at 40F before going into the keg from the cold crash.

Yup, that's what I was getting at. Guess I didn't really need to bring cold crashing into it, but I'm not sure this method wouldn't overcarbonate if you started with cold beer. If you cold crash but let the beer warm up before you keg it, you're good to go.
 
But to your carbonation method, this could definitely work. I am just not comfortable with my used cornies at 50 PSI. Just a fear of mine (Although nothing wrong with it).

Aren't cornies good up to 130PSI or so? I'm more concerned about the seals on my lines not being able to handle the pressure than my kegs. Would hate to come back a day later to an empty CO2 tank. But I do it, so I guess I'm not that concerned.:)
 
Thanks much, CidahMastah! This should be especially helpful for beers like this hefe that can be enjoyed young without affecting the flavor much.

Say I try this method again around 30 PSI for a couple days, followed by serving pressure to round up to a week: is burping the keg necessary (I'm not sure that I did this time, though I honestly can't recall) or can I just turn down the pressure on the regulator without detaching the gas line? I guess I'm just unclear as to the physics of what might occur if I just leave the line attached and adjust the pressure downward.

You only need to burp the keg if you boost carb then want to serve the next day. i.e. if you unhook you still have a keg with 60psi or 50 or 30 or whatever. Burping just vents the keg so you serve at say 12psi or whatever you set for serving.

So if you adjust downward and hook up, your beer will be serving at the boost carb pressure until it vents down to the serving pressure.

If you turn off and let sit at serving pressure for a week or so it should all stabilize out on its own. But what is the point of boost carbing if you plan on letting it sit at serving pressure for 2 weeks?

hefes are a great example of a brew you want to carb highly, and quickly so you can drink young. A great reason to try this method.


I think he is just saying that the beer is starting out at room temp and therefore wont be at 40F for the full 20 hrs. Thus, it won't carbonate as much as it would if it were at 40F before going into the keg from the cold crash.

I do the same, start with a warm keg. This is why I noted that because the assumption would be a cold keg left at 50PSI would absorb more co2 than a warm in 20 hours or so. How much? You go me there...


To the OP concern, cornies are good up to 130PSI as heavyfoot stated. I disconnect my beer lines as well, but I have left them in on occasion and mine haven't leaked.

So let me just restate this again.... I have been using this method for well over 1.5 years to carb my and my cobrewer's beers. IT IS SAFE AND RELIABLE - That isn't up for debate, it is a fact. The only boogie man or voodoo attached to this method is that which other posters are adding. All the equipment is designed for 130psi, which probably means that it is good for at least twice that. The only weak point would be where you connected your lines to the QD's, if you didn't do a good job then that is on you. In a previous life all these kegs saw high pressures when serving sodas.
 
I'm not new to kegging. I've been doing it for a couple years now. So I'm not a complete idiot on the subject. My question is if you get a beer up to the intended carb level, and then turn down the pressure to serving pressure, would the carb level decrease over time? Or once it reaches it's level does it stay there as long as there is some pressure on it?

The background for this:
I usually use the set it and forget it method. Usually around 13-14 psi. I recently realized that this pressure is too much to serve at, because it pushes the beer too fast through my beer line. This strips out some of the CO2. I read up on balancing my system and found that my optimal level is 10-11 psi. After lowering my pressure the beer seemed to have more carb. But after a while at that level it seems like the beer is less carbed. Could the lower pressure let some of the CO2 out of the beer in the keg, resulting in a lower carbonated beer?

I'm sorry if has been answered already. Please direct me to it if it has...
 
Yes, your carb level will decrease over time if the headspace is at a lower pressure than what is already dissolved in the beer. You need to replace your serving lines with longer lengths. The result of balancing your system is not using a certain pressure, it's getting to a certain pressure drop at the faucet. You can avoid all the headaches by starting with 10' lines.
 
Thanks for the info. That makes sense. I have 8 foot lines. Could I compensate by lowering my temperature?

Also, I don't have a fan in my keezer to circulate the air. Could this help?
 
Ok, so I have the 10' lines and have my keezer set at 39. If i set my psi at 10 psi for 3 weeks i should be right on target? Also im in Denver 5280 feet above sea level, I have heard this has some influence as well, is it so minimal dont even sweat it? Are these spec correct to carb my beer properly and be able to serve it at this pressure as well. Before this i was def over carbing at 30psi for two days.
 
I'm reluctantly trying something different this time. I cold crashed my ipa for a few days. Transferred to my keg yesterday and set at 30 psi. Dropped back to 11 psi after 24 hours...hope it works out. This is only my second kegging. My goal was to get it carbed a little faster than three weeks. Maybe one week with this method?
 
wilsojos said:
I'm reluctantly trying something different this time. I cold crashed my ipa for a few days. Transferred to my keg yesterday and set at 30 psi. Dropped back to 11 psi after 24 hours...hope it works out. This is only my second kegging. My goal was to get it carbed a little faster than three weeks. Maybe one week with this method?

Ive had good luck letting it go for 36 hours at 30 psi, then back down to serving for a few more days.
 
Has anyone done a test where they set a full keg at 30psi and tested the carb levels over a week or two? I'm not talking shaking the crap out of it, just setting the regulator at 30psi and leaving it alone.

I ask because that's what I did last night and I was wondering how carbed it will be after 24, 48 and 72 hours... anyone ever do this and remember the results? Better yet, has anyone done this and made a chart for it?
 
flanneltrees804 said:
Did you shake the keg after setting it at 30psi? How carbed was the beer after 36 hours?

Nope, no shaking. I can't recall the carb level at that point. I usually won't touch it for at least a week, to let the carbonic bite settle down.
 
evandena said:
Ive had good luck letting it go for 36 hours at 30 psi, then back down to serving for a few more days.

Do you release the pressure before you set it back to serving pressure? Pull the release valve?
 
wilsojos said:
Do you release the pressure before you set it back to serving pressure? Pull the release valve?

Yes. In summary:

Chill to serving temp while not on gas.
Set to 30 psi for 36 hours.
Turn off gas and purge pressure.
Turn gas back on at serving pressure.
Wait a few more days. Drink when you feel it's ready.
 
Dont want to thread hijack but on another note, 30 psi constantly for 4 days plus @ 30 psi for serving under a 10 foot 3/16 diameter hose would be sufficient for seltzer water/ club soda?
 
I have 2 5g kegs of a pale ale I want ready for 10 days from now. i have one co2 tank with one line out, so i can only carb one at a time.
I currently have one 5g keg hook up with 30PSI since earlier today at room temp(i shook it a little when i first hooked up the gas), the other I just purged the oxygen out of(with the co2 tank @ 15PSI) and set aside at room temp ~70*.

Whats my best bet to have both of these ready?
 
Dont want to thread hijack but on another note, 30 psi constantly for 4 days plus @ 30 psi for serving under a 10 foot 3/16 diameter hose would be sufficient for seltzer water/ club soda?

4 days is a bit short and 10 feet of serving hose is also short for 30psi. This would be the equivalent of putting a beer on 12psi for 4 days and serving from 3 feet of line. Flat beer shooting out like a fire hose.

I believe soda takes about 30-40psi and requires 25' of 3/16 hose. This might be a good reason to try to source some 1/8" ID.
 
Bobby_M said:
4 days is a bit short and 10 feet of serving hose is also short for 30psi. This would be the equivalent of putting a beer on 12psi for 4 days and serving from 3 feet of line. Flat beer shooting out like a fire hose.

I believe soda takes about 30-40psi and requires 25' of 3/16 hose. This might be a good reason to try to source some 1/8" ID.

Ouch. How slow does 1/8 dispense?
 
Bobby_M said:
4 days is a bit short and 10 feet of serving hose is also short for 30psi. This would be the equivalent of putting a beer on 12psi for 4 days and serving from 3 feet of line. Flat beer shooting out like a fire hose.

I believe soda takes about 30-40psi and requires 25' of 3/16 hose. This might be a good reason to try to source some 1/8" ID.

Ouch. How slow does 1/8 dispense?
 
It's just my opinion but two things frequently not mentioned:
1) Set & Forget requires the gas regulator to be permanently "on".
A possible consequence of this, is that if there is even a minute gas leak, you can lose the complete contents of your CO2 gas tank which is expensive & very annoying.
How likely is this; well it happened to me within a month of moving to kegs. Had I carefully done a soapy water gas leak; YES, the leak proved to be so small that this leak test was not likely to detect it. How many possible leak points are there - well count them up there are many & most rely on rubber O rings which do deteriorate.
2) If you just apply a relatively high pressure (50+ psi , say) to a more or less constant head space such as applies to a newly kegged (but cooled) brew, it's possible with a bit of experience to get quite close to the desired carbonation level within a week or so, although subsequent additions of gas at progressively lower pressures are required over perhaps another week.
I can't give a positive guide on this just yet, but it's relatively easy in practice & so far I have not over-carbed to any significant extent.
Not as precise as "set & forget" but easy & much less risky.
 
peterlonz said:
It's just my opinion but two things frequently not mentioned:
1) Set & Forget requires the gas regulator to be permanently "on".
A possible consequence of this, is that if there is even a minute gas leak, you can lose the complete contents of your CO2 gas tank which is expensive & very annoying.
How likely is this; well it happened to me within a month of moving to kegs. Had I carefully done a soapy water gas leak; YES, the leak proved to be so small that this leak test was not likely to detect it. How many possible leak points are there - well count them up there are many & most rely on rubber O rings which do deteriorate.
2) If you just apply a relatively high pressure (50+ psi , say) to a more or less constant head space such as applies to a newly kegged (but cooled) brew, it's possible with a bit of experience to get quite close to the desired carbonation level within a week or so, although subsequent additions of gas at progressively lower pressures are required over perhaps another week.
I can't give a positive guide on this just yet, but it's relatively easy in practice & so far I have not over-carbed to any significant extent.
Not as precise as "set & forget" but easy & much less risky.

If I don't crash the carboy before kegging, setting at 50 for 24 hours as it cools and then purging headspace gives me perfect carb level.
 

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