BIAB tactical error

Gentlemen and ladies, I have a problem scenario:

I am preparing to brew a black IPA, my first all-grain recipe. I was excited about doing a full boil, because I have a five-gal kettle and that worked fine for full boil with extract. Some of you already see where this is going.

Yeah, my 12 pounds of grain displaces about a gallon and a half of water. Crap. I also have a spare 3.9 gal stockpot, so here's my thinking: can I boil both simultaneously, each with half the water and half the grain bill and combine them for the boil + hopping?

I'm worried about efficiency, though if I understand it right (and if I do, it's an accident) since i'd be dealing with identical water volumes and grain quantities on each half that should be okay even if the diameter and depth of the water is different between burners.

(I have a fantastic gas range, FWIW. Can do a 5-gal full boil from any or all of its four burners if the vessels are tall enough not to bump into each other.)

The other thing I'm worried about is color extraction. My recipe has 8 oz. of chocolate malt and 4 oz. of chocolate malt alongside 11 lbs. 2-row and crystal, and obviously the blackness is an important part of the black IPA. Will it be important in this case to get an even proportion of malts into each kettle for color extraction?

Thanks a ton in advance!

You could split the mashing into the two kettles; mash them both out when done mashing to stop conversion. Then remove the grain bags (use Viola curtain if need be) and recombine the wort into one kettle (if it all fits) or like you said make two smaller "identical" volume batches of beer by splitting the hop charges. then recombine them into one fermenter...

Oh; and get a bigger kettle! 10 gallon min; preferably a 15

I used to do split kettles for extract brews. It worked out OK. But yes, I did finally buy a 10g kettle to do full boils and BIAB.

Actually, my plan was indeed to combine them for the post-mash boil, hops, etc - my main vessel is 5gal, so I have room for the batch - just not the water and grain at the same time!

New kettle will happen when I convince SWMBO that my brewing isn't just a phase.

Kerin said:

Actually, my plan was indeed to combine them for the post-mash boil, hops, etc - my main vessel is 5gal, so I have room for the batch - just not the water and grain at the same time!

New kettle will happen when I convince SWMBO that my brewing isn't just a phase.

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What size batch are you making?

I just got two 8gallon kettles and I'm already sort of rethinking that decision. I've already made two beers in 5g batch size in a 7.5g pot, so I feel OK with this, but the boil can be tenuous. I'm converting to electric submersible elements, which may help once I get the PID controls dialed in and my setup honed.

Still the old addage of "bigger is better" applies here. The only place it hurts you is if you get a large diameter pot and have small burners that have a hard time heating water in the pot. My new pots are probably 14" in diameter, larger than the turkey pots by a good bit. I'm doing a boil from 48* right now with 6.5 gallons on my glass-top stove. It's been about 45 minutes and it's not much over 100* yet. Granted this volume of water will normally be at about 160*+ when I go to boil, I wanted to get some numbers for worst case (if I do a split batch 10g. size and have to heat double strike water, etc.)

If you're doing a 5 gal batch you will need bigger than 5 gal pot. you should start with 6 to 6.5 gall of wort to allow for boil off during the hour long boil. I have a 7.5 gal turkey fryer and it is just barely big enough for 5 gal BIAB

You could also mash in one pot and have the second pot heated to mash out temperature, maybe 175F to account for the cooling effect of the grain. When you are done with your mash, heat the mash vessel up to 175, (lift the bag first so it does not scorch) and then lower it, stir gently for a minute and lift again and let drain. After the majority of the wort drips off the bag, drop it in the second kettle which has been heated to 175F. Stir as before and lift and let drain. This is called a dunk sparge, and you may get better efficiency with it because the water bath can extract more of the sugars. I believe it is harder to get additional sugars by washing the grain in wort, which already has a high percentage of sugar in it.

Anyway, just another idea to try. It may sound a little harder than it is. Good luck! It may not be as easy and straight forward as having one big kettle, but the enzymes won't care and you will make beer!

Split it up between two pots a combine when done. If I do a 5 gallon biab I start with 7-7.5 gallons of water. Keep it simple don't over think it and have fun. One thing I've learned is beer brewing.

ElDuderino said:

You could also mash in one pot and have the second pot heated to mash out temperature, maybe 175F to account for the cooling effect of the grain. When you are done with your mash, heat the mash vessel up to 175, (lift the bag first so it does not scorch) and then lower it, stir gently for a minute and lift again and let drain. After the majority of the wort drips off the bag, drop it in the second kettle which has been heated to 175F. Stir as before and lift and let drain. This is called a dunk sparge, and you may get better efficiency with it because the water bath can extract more of the sugars. I believe it is harder to get additional sugars by washing the grain in wort, which already has a high percentage of sugar in it.

Anyway, just another idea to try. It may sound a little harder than it is. Good luck! It may not be as easy and straight forward as having one big kettle, but the enzymes won't care and you will make beer!

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The amount of sugar you get out of a dunk sparge is a simple dilution problem.

If you have 5KG of grain, that should have about 6.55L of liquid absorbed at the end of the mash.

If you then dunk sparge with another 10L and properly agitate, you will now have dissolved the remaining sugars in a total of 16.55L of liquid.

When you remove the grain you will again lose 6.55L of liquid, thus taking away 6.55/16.55 of the remaining sugars.

So about 40%. Thus you will leave 60% of the remaining sugars behind.


So, if you normally have 80% efficiency into the boil, if you added a 10L dunk sparge, you might recover 60% of the remaining 20% which'd bump you up from 80% to 92%

Another way of looking at it, is you had 20% of your sugars trapped in the grain, but now you only have 8%

I'm doing a 5-gal batch (boil is happening now.) I split the mash into two 2.8gal mashes and after boil off they both fit into my 5-gal pot. I then pressed about a half-gallon of liquid from the bags into a bucket and added that back to the pot. Wort looks and tastes great so far!

Sounds like you are doing just fine Good job! Way to get it done and not get hung up on deatails.

Thanks, man. No real choice,as I've got my grain milled and losing potency. I do what I gotta do!

Kerin said:

I'm doing a 5-gal batch (boil is happening now.) I split the mash into two 2.8gal mashes and after boil off they both fit into my 5-gal pot. I then pressed about a half-gallon of liquid from the bags into a bucket and added that back to the pot. Wort looks and tastes great so far!

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I guess I'm the only one who is confused at how you end up with a 5 gallon batch, but you only have a 5 gallon kettle... I'm thinking you are actually making a 3.5 to 4 gallon batch if you only have a 5 gallon kettle after boil off. And that is assuming you have the 5 gallon kettle filled to the very top when you start the boil, which I would have to see to believe!

Stauffbier said:

I guess I'm the only one who is confused at how you end up with a 5 gallon batch, but you only have a 5 gallon kettle...

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Yep. A 5-gallon kettle holds five gallons.

Stauffbier said:

I'm thinking you are actually making a 3.5 to 4 gallon batch if you only have a 5 gallon kettle after boil off.

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Nope, 2.8 + 2.8 - boiloff = 5. Which fits in my five-gallon kettle.

Stauffbier said:

And that is assuming you have the 5 gallon kettle filled to the very top when you start the boil, which I would have to see to believe!

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I'm very careful about boilover. Tonight I had a little bit but nothing too bad. The finished product is lighter than I'd like - a little darker than Newcastle, which isn't exactly ideal for a bIPA - but that's probably alright.

Now, I'm convinced that you CAN do a 5-gallon AG batch with a 5 and a 4-gallon vessel run at once. But there's one caveat:

It is a pain in the ass. Unless this tastes amazing enough to change my mind, I'm gonna stick to extract or small batches until I can snag an 8-gallon kettle and a turkey fryer burner.

Kerin said:

Yep. A 5-gallon kettle holds five gallons.



Nope, 2.8 + 2.8 - boiloff = 5. Which fits in my five-gallon kettle.



I'm very careful about boilover. Tonight I had a little bit but nothing too bad. The finished product is lighter than I'd like - a little darker than Newcastle, which isn't exactly ideal for a bIPA - but that's probably alright.

Now, I'm convinced that you CAN do a 5-gallon AG batch with a 5 and a 4-gallon vessel run at once. But there's one caveat:

It is a pain in the ass. Unless this tastes amazing enough to change my mind, I'm gonna stick to extract or small batches until I can snag an 8-gallon kettle and a turkey fryer burner.

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If you started boiling with 5 gallons of liquid, there is no way you're ending up with 5 gallons after the boil! There has to be some degree of boil off or you're not boiling it as vigorous as you should be...

Last time I checked 2.8 + 2.8 = 5.6 gallons... How can you fit that into a 5 gallon kettle?

Stauffbier said:

If you started boiling with 5 gallons of liquid, there is no way you're ending up with 5 gallons after the boil! There has to be some degree of boil off or you're not boiling it as vigorous as you should be...

Last time I checked 2.8 + 2.8 = 5.6 gallons... How can you fit that into a 5 gallon kettle?

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"2.8 + 2.8 - boiloff" was the math I gave. The obvious answer to how I can start and end with 5 and do a vigorous boil in-between is periodic top-off water. Isn't exactly unheard of, bub.

Kerin said:

"2.8 + 2.8 - boiloff" was the math I gave. The obvious answer to how I can start and end with 5 and do a vigorous boil in-between is periodic top-off water. Isn't exactly unheard of, bub.

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I think what you're trying to say is 2.8 + 2.8 - grain absorption not boiloff" , skippy.

Stauffbier, you have now a complete picture of how I brewed tonight. I'm not sure what else you want, but I'm quite sure that I've lost interest in helping you find it. Good day.

I think what he is saying is a 5 gallon pot with 5 gallons of wort would be as full as it can possibly be, where ever step you take would cause it to overflow just from vibration. Like filing a glass to where it overflows, 100% to the top. How can you do anything with that?

tre9er said:

I think what he is saying is a 5 gallon pot with 5 gallons of wort would be as full as it can possibly be, where ever step you take would cause it to overflow just from vibration. Like filing a glass to where it overflows, 100% to the top. How can you do anything with that?

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Oh crap, you're right. It was really. a 4.98 gallon batch. I'm melting! I'M MELTING!

That said, with five gallons exactly added via my quart-marked pyrex pitcher, there's about a half-inch of space at the top. Make of that what you will, dude.

I've read through this twice and I still don't get the questions nor the answers. Not that it matters, though......I guess the OP made beer, was happy with it and he's not charging any of us with an admission fee to stay and watch. So... Move along citizens, nothing to see here.

Kerin said:

That said, with five gallons exactly added via my quart-marked pyrex pitcher, there's about a half-inch of space at the top. Make of that what you will, dude.

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Your pot is larger than 5g. Sweet! :rockin:

tektonjp said:

I've read through this twice and I still don't get the questions nor the answers. Not that it matters, though......I guess the OP made beer, was happy with it and he's not charging any of us with an admission fee to stay and watch. So... Move along citizens, nothing to see here.

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Oh man. Don't worry, dude, I didn't take offense or nothin'. And if anyone has any more questions about what I did on brew day, I'll happily explain either here or in a PM.

I will say this: I squeezed the bejeesus out of my grain bags after the mash. I got crazy amounts of liquid back out by pressing the whole bag in a bucket, pouring, twisting the grain bag's neck until it was tight, squeezing that, and then squeezing individual handfuls of grain.

I don't follow the Queensbury Rules, either in fisticuffs or brewing.

tre9er said:

Your pot is larger than 5g. Sweet! :rockin:

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Stop making my pot feel fat. She already hides in the cupboard all the time.