Which Sours to Harvest Yeast

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I've had really good success just pitching dregs of commercial sours into an already fermenting beer as opposed to harvesting and building it up.

Russian River and Jolly Pumpkin have been the best dregs in my short experience. I've done 3 1gallon sour beers where I've pitched dregs and have gotten great results. In the end you'll have built up a good bank of bugs that you can harvest from te fermenter, plus you have beer to drink!
 
Which sour beers are good to harvest yeast from. My favorites include Supplication, Duchess, Cascade Kreik, and those with a true sourness.

Here's a thread with some great ones listed. I have Hansenns Kreik on my counter...

i don't think the thread attached
 
I've had really good success just pitching dregs of commercial sours into an already fermenting beer as opposed to harvesting and building it up.

Russian River and Jolly Pumpkin have been the best dregs in my short experience. I've done 3 1gallon sour beers where I've pitched dregs and have gotten great results. In the end you'll have built up a good bank of bugs that you can harvest from te fermenter, plus you have beer to drink!

Im doing the same thing, i brewed 1 gal. and pitched dregs from sanctification. its been a week and and its still fermenting actively. how long till yours was ready to bottle or drink? im gonna rack it to a secondary on top of apricots
 
JP dregs are awesome. Spring Chicken- are you saying that duchesse is a favorite sour, or a favorite yeast to harvest- as we haven't had any luck with duchesse or vichtenar, even though duchesse says 100 percent natural and non pasteurized- has anyone been able to raise duchesse?
 
oldsock, i noticed you don't have any brouwerij verhaeghe beers on your list- is that just from them not being verified, or have you tried with duchesse, to no avail? i'm wondering if i should try again - or maybe even try to get some of their other beers...
 
spearko520 said:
JP dregs are awesome. Spring Chicken- are you saying that duchesse is a favorite sour, or a favorite yeast to harvest- as we haven't had any luck with duchesse or vichtenar, even though duchesse says 100 percent natural and non pasteurized- has anyone been able to raise duchesse?

I was just listing the beers that I'd like to emulate. My favorites.
 
Spearko, Duchesse has alot of sweetness to it. Not sure if the dregs are viable. Are there dregs? Could be sterile filtered.
 
From what I have heard, Duchesse is filtered. I tried anyway to pitch some in a gallon of wort-no dice.
 
oldsock, i noticed you don't have any brouwerij verhaeghe beers on your list- is that just from them not being verified, or have you tried with duchesse, to no avail? i'm wondering if i should try again - or maybe even try to get some of their other beers...

I haven't tried using their beers (or most of the beers on the list) so I either need to have a brewery that confirms there are live microbes, or successful attempts using the dregs reported by other homebrewers. I'd rather leave beers off the list unless I am positive.
 
Sooooo..... I have had a few gallon wine jugs filled with dregs of sours that I wanted to try to harvest from. I started this thread because I'm looking to start round 2. The two beers that I most wanted to harvest from (Ducchess and Supplication) both had developed mold from having airlocks dry out. Because I'm having a sour tasting among friends tonight I cleaned out the extra jugs to try again. However, I tried the Ducchess just because it had only a small amount of mold and people on this thread are doubting if it can be used. Let me tell you that it most certainly can. The stuff in the jug is it. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they were back to back. All that I did was make a half gallon starter and throw in the dregs.
 
i tried duchesse and vichtenar to no avail- but i guess i will give it another try. The labeling on the bottle would lead me to believe that they don't do anything other than bottle their product, but i guess filtering could sneak in under their language. i've been drinking duchesse pretty regular for about the past eight years and i know it is never the same, which leads me to think there may still be something organic going on. I've never really noticed any sediment in the bottle, but i guess i'm going to give another try - spring chicken- what did you use for starter wort, and did you just pitch like the last half inch of what was left in the bottle?
 
Yeah, I just made a 1.040 starter with DME and threw in the nasties in the last 1/4 inch or so. With Duchesse I think I let it sit for about a week before I picked it up out of the fridge, and then I called the bottom the dregs.
 
However, I tried the Ducchess just because it had only a small amount of mold and people on this thread are doubting if it can be used. Let me tell you that it most certainly can. The stuff in the jug is it. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they were back to back. All that I did was make a half gallon starter and throw in the dregs.

Are you saying you can’t taste the difference between Duchesse and the starter you made? How sterile was your process? With a starter that big for dregs there is a good chance that other microbes could have gained a foothold, even if there were viable cells in the bottle. How long was it before you saw active fermentation?
 
Oldsock said:
Are you saying you can’t taste the difference between Duchesse and the starter you made? How sterile was your process? With a starter that big for dregs there is a good chance that other microbes could have gained a foothold, even if there were viable cells in the bottle. How long was it before you saw active fermentation?

I can taste the difference, but I think if I added some sugar or something to back sweeten it would be pretty close to dead on. It's much more sour, but it has the exact flavor of the Duchess. Also, there are differences others than flavors such as color and clarity.

I paid attention in my science classes so I'm about a sanitary as you can be.That said, obviously something did get in there because there was mold growing on top, possibly from the dried out airlock. Maybe the airlock drying out was good? Maybe it needed the oxygen?

I saw signs in the first week. When I do starters I do a wort stability test in a Ziploc bag too, it always takes more than a week to show signs of fermentation.
 
I can taste the difference, but I think if I added some sugar or something to back sweeten it would be pretty close to dead on. It's much more sour, but it has the exact flavor of the Duchess. Also, there are differences others than flavors such as color and clarity.

I paid attention in my science classes so I'm about a sanitary as you can be.That said, obviously something did get in there because there was mold growing on top, possibly from the dried out airlock. Maybe the airlock drying out was good? Maybe it needed the oxygen?

I saw signs in the first week. When I do starters I do a wort stability test in a Ziploc bag too, it always takes more than a week to show signs of fermentation.

Interesting, although surprising with the number of people who say it fails for them. I'm also surprised by how much sweetness Duchess has given the live microbes.
 
i don't think verhaeghe uses aspartame in duchesse- spring chicken - how long did you have the starter going for?
 
Look at this thread, about halfway down there is a label. Turns out the Duchesse is '100% natural and unpasteurized'.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/just-opened-duchesse-de-bourgogne-125810/

Unpasteurized doesn't mean it isn't filtered.

Raj Apte claims that is the case: "Duchesse is a filtered and force-carbonated blend of 8 and 18 month old beer, 60/40... The Verhaeghe importer says that often kegs and even bottles will begin a fermentation if stored for long, despite the fact that they are filtered. There is noticeable sediment in most bottles. There may be enough microbes to get a culture going. The good news is the Duchesse is force carbonated, so there is no bottling yeast to create confusion." http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
 
Oldsock said:
Unpasteurized doesn't mean it isn't filtered.

Raj Apte claims that is the case: "Duchesse is a filtered and force-carbonated blend of 8 and 18 month old beer, 60/40... The Verhaeghe importer says that often kegs and even bottles will begin a fermentation if stored for long, despite the fact that they are filtered. There is noticeable sediment in most bottles. There may be enough microbes to get a culture going. The good news is the Duchesse is force carbonated, so there is no bottling yeast to create confusion." http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml

I don't care what it is as long as I can get a starter off of it. :)

It's good to know though. I bet it's only filtered lightly and that's why I got some. It wasn't my first try though, so don't give up. It sure won't be my last.
 
well - i know what i'm getting a case of this weekend... (other than the green apple splatters...)
 
I would think then that maybe the filtration plus bottle age would lead to very long lag times in building up a starter. So maybe try a smaller start like 250ml or 500ml of wort and give it 2 or 3 weeks then step it up to x2 and x5?

Or you could try dregs from like 5 or 6 bottles to start... Might be cost prohibitive though. Oh, and just a thought are you using dregs from the 330ml or the 750ml bottles? Could make a difference.

Just my thoughts as I don't usually do starters for dregs just pitch into secondary.
 
JacobS said:
I would think then that maybe the filtration plus bottle age would lead to very long lag times in building up a starter. So maybe try a smaller start like 250ml or 500ml of wort and give it 2 or 3 weeks then step it up to x2 and x5?

Or you could try dregs from like 5 or 6 bottles to start... Might be cost prohibitive though. Oh, and just a thought are you using dregs from the 330ml or the 750ml bottles? Could make a difference.

Just my thoughts as I don't usually do starters for dregs just pitch into secondary.

If you're asking me, I used the 330ml bottle probably. I have only bought a few of the larger bottles. Good idea using the smaller starters. I'm only using the gallon bottles because they are free.
 
Here is another example of someone having luck with the Duchesse
http://snbbrewing.blogspot.com/2012/01/souring-halvtreds.html

I've started a thread about a similar question and many people have chimed in with their success
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/easy-way-make-sour-beers-1-gal-wort-dregs-189748/

Here is a quick list of the successes

Fantome - (Noel) - any
Bruery - (Saison de Lente) - any
Mikkeller It's Alright
Avery 15
Russian River - (Consecration) - any
Lost Abbey - any
Bavik Petrus Aged Pale
Old Beersel
Cantillion Kriek
Jolly Pumpkin - (Bam Noire) - any

and more detail about them are on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/p/beer-recipes.html
 
Almighty said:
Here is another example of someone having luck with the Duchesse
http://snbbrewing.blogspot.com/2012/01/souring-halvtreds.html

I've started a thread about a similar question and many people have chimed in with their success
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/easy-way-make-sour-beers-1-gal-wort-dregs-189748/

Here is a quick list of the successes

Fantome - (Noel) - any
Bruery - (Saison de Lente) - any
Mikkeller It's Alright
Avery 15
Russian River - (Consecration) - any
Lost Abbey - any
Bavik Petrus Aged Pale
Old Beersel
Cantillion Kriek
Jolly Pumpkin - (Bam Noire) - any

and more detail about them are on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/p/beer-recipes.html

I noticed that the blog post doesn't report results...
 
I'm going to assume that if Duchess works, then their Vichtenaar and Echte Kriekenbier are probably good as well? Unlike Duchess though i don't see them make the same unpasteurized claim.
 
i haven't had luck with any of their beers (tried the duch, vict, and the kriek) - but after this info i am going to try the duchesse again- i guess will start w 20 wort and step up to 40. I am going to get some of the smaller bottles at the six pack shop, as i used the 750's (of the duchesse) before... will keep posted...
 
There are some results in a follow-up post
http://snbbrewing.blogspot.com/2012/01/souring-halvtreds-part-2.html

I have had good results resurrecting dregs by making a starter right in the original bottle with 4 oz of 1.020 - 1.030 wort. Then this can be stepped up. And often times you won't see much activity in the small starter because there is not much sugar and the reviving process is slow, unlike pitching fresh viable yeast into normal gravity wort. So it might take a few steps before you see activity.
 
well - spring chicken has given me hope- if a half gallon of wort w duch dregs just needs to be backsweetened after 6 months- i may be able to convince my wife that this hobby has finally paid for itself. she reckons i have spent in excess of $11,200 on duchesse since 2003. i, personally, don't believe in dollars- or time...
 
Almighty said:
There are some results in a follow-up post
http://snbbrewing.blogspot.com/2012/01/souring-halvtreds-part-2.html

I have had good results resurrecting dregs by making a starter right in the original bottle with 4 oz of 1.020 - 1.030 wort. Then this can be stepped up. And often times you won't see much activity in the small starter because there is not much sugar and the reviving process is slow, unlike pitching fresh viable yeast into normal gravity wort. So it might take a few steps before you see activity.

So you put more than just Duchesse in the starter? How do you know that it wasn't the Batch 50?
 
That is not my blog. I didn't catch that the first time, that he put all the dregs into one flask. You are right, that proves nothing about the Duchesse.
 

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