Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

Alright, so I have all the ingredients for this delicious looking recipe in Beersmith, and it's telling me OG is to be 1.106. Where am I screwing up?

Hi Big Red! Ok, so I decided to check the forums tonight, because I moved this recipe from the secondary to the bottling bucket tonight. I was going to keg it, but decided I am going to bottle it, so I am boiling my jar, water, lids, and when it all cools I am going to cold brew the kona and bottling this tomorrow.

I checked back over my notes on this recipe, and I thought I was going to have poor mash tun efficiency since I was borrowing someone else's at the time. I ended up using 18.5lbs of 2 row English Malt. The recipe calls for a different base malt, but I have been brewing with the foothills guys and I can get the English malt much cheaper, and they convinced me that English malt won't be detectable. I thought I called it perfectly using 18.5lbs since my OG came in at 1.1085, but had I used 16lbs, then my OG would have been close to yours. I think you just had a little less efficiency mashing out, and I don't ink it is going to affect the taste at all. Go ahead with it, and you'll be happy. I confess I did leave mine in the secondary for about 6 weeks, but damn, it tastes incredible tonight uncarbonated. My brew buddy did the same recipe, but he soaked some oak chips for the first 2 weeks while it was in the primary, and added the two week old soaked oak to the secondary and it is absolutely amazing. He did keg his, so I am not sure what the taste profile difference will be btw legging and bottling, but there is always a touch of difference just because of the natural carbonation.

So, enough rambling, I think you just had a little less efficiency in your mash out.

Also, what temp did you mash at and for how long?

Oh, so I just realized you haven't brewed it yet. Check the mash efficiency in beer smith, and if you think yours might be low, go a touch higher with your base malt. Mine turned out great using 18.5 and I mashed at 155.

I made this and had a sample just before I bottled it. It had a really strong coffee taste on the front end. I plan on letting this one age for a while before I start drinking. How much can I expect the coffee taste to mellow over time?

6 months aging at least for optimal effect.

Made this Last October. It was really good in January, excellent by February. I held off several bottles. Each subsequent month it got better. Last one i had i believe was the end of April and it was better than the previous. Still have a few left but am waiting until the fall to pop them open.

I brewed a batch of this 6 months ago as my first all grain batch. I knew it was not a simple beer to make, i just really wanted something interesting to show for my work.
Now, 6 months later I've tasted the fruits of my labor and it's awesome! I put 1L of maple syrup into my primary partly for flavoring, and partly because i had horrible efficiency so i figured a little extra sugar wouldn't hurt things... I did some math, and after the syrup, my OG would be 1.072. It wasn't enough to taste any maple at all, but you do get a hint of the aroma when you open the bottle.

Yesterday i did another batch. 6 months of learning has gone a long long way because my OG was 1.111 ! That was with a little more than the expected boil off, but it was maybe 1L out. according to the efficiency calculator that google found for me and my other measurements (pre-boil gravity and volume) my efficiency was 86%.
For reference for everyone else making this, what i did was a mash thickness of 1.4-1.3 qt per pound at 158F for 60 mins. I mashed out with boiling water to get it to 170 with as little volume increase as possible. sat 10 mins. then i drained.
I batch sparged with 170 degree water without stirring after the infusions. I did 3 infusions, and collected 26L total.

For my tastes the hop character could be a bit stronger, especially since i'm going to age this new batch for quite a while. This is my new hop schedule:

.6 oz Nugget (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
.2 oz Nugget (Pellets, 13.00 %AA) boiled 30 min.
.6 oz Fuggles (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 30 min. Mt. Hood is not available to me locally here
2.5 oz Dark bittersweet baker's chocolate at 15 mins.
1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins.
.6 oz Fuggles (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 2 min. Mt. Hood is not available to me locally here
2 oz Ground Sumatran coffee at flameout
2 oz Ground Kona coffee cold brewed, added at bottling

Cooled with my counterflow wort chiller and put in a plastic primary. I siphoned from that at a high height into a different pail with a long freefall to aerate the heck out of it (twice), the yeast would be stressed as heck with that OG. and then i pitched onto a wyeast 1056 american ale yeast cake from a clone batch of moose drool.
In 4 hours there was 6 inches of krausen, and the yeast activity had brought the temprature up to 79f in my 65f basement.

I know that this beer has a hell of a reputation, and i feel a bit bad for screwing with a recipe that is respected as much as this one, but without the oak casks that the original is aged in, i figured i'd never have it exactly right anyways. I'll report back in 4 months when i open the first bottle. I know that's too soon, but Nov 10th is my birthday, and i'm giving myself a present.

I just boiled up 10 gallons of this 3 days ago. Now on 2nd full day of ferment and 2nd full day of it in my 60 degree crawl space. The thermometer sticker I have on each carboy shows right at 72 degrees, and there's about 2" of kreusen on top, airlocks are doing drum rolls. The air coming from the air lock doesn't seem too fruity/estery, so I'm not too concerned. Besides, with the roast, coffee, and chocolate, I don't think the esters would really over power the aroma of the beer. I know I'm at the top end of the 60-72 recommended temp for wyeast 1056, but I'm afraid to cool with wet t-shirt or anything at this point in the game. Don't want to stall the yeast.

Any input? I'm thinking I would do more harm at 48+ hours in to active fermentation than good if I cooled it down at this point. I welcome any input from anyone that has done this at warmer temps, or even what your experience is with wyeast 1056 at 72 degrees. I'm thinking I should just relax and have one of my African Amber or Bitburger clones on tap. Maybe two.

Thanks for the recipe (did the 30 IBU recipe on original post, my OG was 1.084). Can't wait to condition this and (hopefully) share it as x-mas gifts in December. cheers...

I'm planning on doing this brew in the coming weeks. One question, though: Do you guys filter out the chocolate and coffee before putting it in the fermenter? I normally put my hops and other additions in a bag during the boil but doing so with chocolate seems wrong. However, I'm not sure how much I want to be cleaning 4 ounces of chocolate out of my carboy or bucket.

geneb said:

I'm planning on doing this brew in the coming weeks. One question, though: Do you guys filter out the chocolate and coffee before putting it in the fermenter? I normally put my hops and other additions in a bag during the boil but doing so with chocolate seems wrong. However, I'm not sure how much I want to be cleaning 4 ounces of chocolate out of my carboy or bucket.

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I left the coffee and chocolate in the ferment. It seemed to cause no ill effects. Outstanding beer, and the fermentation vessel (I just use the white plastic bucket) was no harder to clean out than usual, although this probably -and understandably- had the thickest trub of any beer I've brewed.

geneb said:

I'm planning on doing this brew in the coming weeks. One question, though: Do you guys filter out the chocolate and coffee before putting it in the fermenter? I normally put my hops and other additions in a bag during the boil but doing so with chocolate seems wrong. However, I'm not sure how much I want to be cleaning 4 ounces of chocolate out of my carboy or bucket.

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The chocolate melts into the wort and mixes in, so it's not like it gets caked on anywhere. I will say this though, on my second batch of this i left it in the primary for 5 weeks, and it soaked up a LOT of the bitterness from the coffee. I wouldn't keep it on the grounds for that long. Transfer to secondary in a reasonable amount of time, and you won't have any issues.

endorphines said:

The chocolate melts into the wort and mixes in, so it's not like it gets caked on anywhere. I will say this though, on my second batch of this i left it in the primary for 5 weeks, and it soaked up a LOT of the bitterness from the coffee. I wouldn't keep it on the grounds for that long. Transfer to secondary in a reasonable amount of time, and you won't have any issues.

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That's a good tip. I brewed a batch loosely following this recipe on Sunday and think I will transfer on day 10. That'll let me take a gravity and see how things are going too.

The coffee and chocolate in this thing smell so good!

purchased the ingredients for the extract on page one! looking forward to it.

AG version of this went into the bucket on saturday night. After a few minor issues, mashed at 151 for 75 minutes, had a small boil over and the safety on my burner shut off a couple of times, but the O.G. came in at 1.080 and the yeast party was in full swing on sunday...we'll see how far the S-04 chews through this one. The wort tastes and smells great. Through all the craziness of the brew day I kept reminding myself RDWAHAHB!

OH, and I broke my airlock and had to rig up a blowoff tube until I could get to the LHBS today...they are closed on Monday.

I brewed this on July 4, primary for 10 days, then secondary for about 5 weeks. Just tapped it the other day and I am surprised how coffee-forward it is. Not so much bitter but intensely coffee-flavored. I only used 2 ounces of fresh ground coffee and didnt even bother with the cold brewed. I love coffee so it's great but my friends aren't impressed. Weird. I would probably back off on the grounds next time. Nice recipe though!

grundig5 said:

I brewed this on July 4, primary for 10 days, then secondary for about 5 weeks. Just tapped it the other day and I am surprised how coffee-forward it is. Not so much bitter but intensely coffee-flavored. I only used 2 ounces of fresh ground coffee and didnt even bother with the cold brewed. I love coffee so it's great but my friends aren't impressed. Weird. I would probably back off on the grounds next time. Nice recipe though!

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Hmmm. I brewed my first batch of this last Fall, still drinking it. To me, it turne out so well that I regard it as one of the signs that, after four years, I'm coming of age as a homebrewer.

In addition to the chocolate called for, I put in 2 oz. of Papanicholas French Roast, which I ground from the beans myself. This is a strong coffee, but by no means was the FBS clone coffee-forward. The coffee and chocolate blend very well into the stout, and I have had several compliments on it, including one of the "Wow! This doesn't even taste like homebrew!" .....where you don't know whether to be complimented or insulted.

Maybe I used coffee that was too bright, I think it was Costa Rican (lightly roasted and pretty acidic) but it was very good quality and freshly roasted. Next time I would use 1.5 oz of grounds with an espresso or french roast. Maybe Sumatra as others here have used.

This turned out very good. My friend did 10 gal and I did 5 gal. We both went a step further and bourbon oaked in the secondary. I can tell you that he did not add coffe at bottling, and I did, and in taste testing, you really can't tell. It's about 6 months old now, and the sharpness has calmed and the beer now is very mellow and awesome. I just got another founders breakfast stout clone that looks amazing, so I will get it from my friend and post it if there is interest!

JOHN51277 said:

I racked mine onto 2.5 oz of moka java beans and .75 oz of american oak chips.

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Did this make it turn out more like the KBS?

I brewed this yesterday. I may have used too much of the Sumatran coffee grounds, about 2.5 ounces too much. Also used Dutch process cocoa powder and cacao nibs. Hopefully it won't wreck it. It's happily bubbling away at ~65f right now.

just moved my batch into secondary, had OG:1.086 and FG: 1.024. going to wait 3-4 weeks, then at cold brew coffee at bottling (~20oz coffee for 2oz of coffee)

I just read that founders has a new breakfast stout, CBS - Candaian Breakfast Stout. This beer is aged in Maple syrup - Bourbon barrels

http://www.foundersbrewing.com/blog/tag/cbs-release-party

I've had a double batch in crawl space for a couple weeks now. It only has CO2 pressure on it to keep it clean, it is not carbonated. Do you suggest carbonating before I age it, or wait until after aging to carbonate?

Any input welcome. Cheers...

HammelBrau said:

I've had a double batch in crawl space for a couple weeks now. It only has CO2 pressure on it to keep it clean, it is not carbonated. Do you suggest carbonating before I age it, or wait until after aging to carbonate?

Any input welcome. Cheers...

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imo, this beer is best FRESH! the coffee and chocolate fade as it ages. (assuming you're not trying to age out any fermentation faults).

if you're going to age it though, there's no harm in carbing at the same time. then it will be ready to drink whenever you decide it's ready. don't forget you'll need much higher CO2 pressure to carb at cellar temp...

Has anyone tried brewing this recipe without the chocolate? I'm trying to make an oatmeal coffee imperial stout with Vietnamese Coffee and I'm not looking to add any chocolate. Just wondering if anyone has tried it or what modifications might be recommended to the recipe if we leave out the chocolate.

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I Don't necessarily agree that this is better young, unless you consider 6 months young. I have had this at 3, 4, 5, all the way up to 8 month intervals. All were good, but to me the 6-8 month interval were the best. The chocolate and coffee flavors might have mellowed, but to me they seemed to meld better with the beer. Coffee is very up front, dominating when this beer is young. Granted I put coffee and chocolate in boil, secondary AND at bottling. I still have a few but haven't had in 4 months, so I'll let u know how it has aged after a year

mhot55 said:

I Don't necessarily agree that this is better young, unless you consider 6 months young. I have had this at 3, 4, 5, all the way up to 8 month intervals. All were good, but to me the 6-8 month interval were the best. The chocolate and coffee flavors might have mellowed, but to me they seemed to meld better with the beer. Coffee is very up front, dominating when this beer is young. Granted I put coffee and chocolate in boil, secondary AND at bottling. I still have a few but haven't had in 4 months, so I'll let u know how it has aged after a year

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Mine's about there- was bottled last November. While I'll not say I ever thought it was a "coffee forward" beer, the chocolate was always in the background until my last bottle.....which would make it about 10 months in bottle (on top of a month's primary fermentation and a four-month secondary). Now it's sort of a blend, with the chocolate just nicely detectable. Wonderful recipe.

"coffee forward" meaning after coffee in the boil, secondary, and at bottling- the coffee flavor was too strong- like a coffee soda with notes of chocolate. Again, not that that is bad but in my opinion it is a much better beer when all the flavors work off each other. Brewed it again last month. That's how much I loved this one.

My first post! I am new to homebrewing and have a question about this recipie. I am planning on brewing this as my second batch ever and I am running into an issue before I even start. I am trying to put all of the recipies I brew into beersmith so I have an idea of what to expect prior to brewing as well as to keep a log of what I brewed.
The problem that I am having is I cannot find alot of the FCS ingredients in beersmith...even the LME that the recipie calls for isnt there! I dont want to add a new ingredient because I have no clue of the properties that these extracts have. Does anyone have ANY suggestions for this?
Thanks all!

Ok, brewed this up yesterday using the recipe in post 4.

Completely coked up my wand so i transferred the last gallon or so by just dumping the contents from the pot to the bucket... read in here that some others had the same issue.

How long can i let it sit on the entire contents before I have to worry about it getting gross? Also plan on racking it to bourbon, any suggestions for how long i can let it sit on bourbon?

Any insight is appreciated!

just moved from secondary to bottles with kona blend cold brew that i let sit overnight. Smeels great so far. Let it sit 3-4 weeks then try one.

Just brewed this recipe yesterday. Followed the original recipe as close as possible. Missed the OG a bit (1.075) but I ended up a little high on volume. It made the back yard smell really good though. Fermenting nicely now, should turn out good (I hope).

I brewed an all-grain version of this beer yesterday, based on a lot of the feedback here. Thank you for everyone chiming-in!

I brewed Northern Brewer's Big Honkin' Stout last year and my 5.5 batch size scale-up and improved effy netted something close to an 8.5% brew. I wanted to base my "winter brew" for this year on Founders Kentucky Bourbon Stout, basically adding the bourbon nature to my Big Honkin' Stout. Reading here I learned about the chocolate and coffee additions.

Biggest hurdle for me was the discussion on the 30 IBU's in this recipe and the 60 IBU's on Founder's website. I believe the 60 IBU's hides well in the original beer, with a BU:GU ratio of 0.75. I targeted this for my beer below ending at 0.73.

Boil Volume 7 gallons
Batch Size 5.5 gallons
Yeast 75% AA
OG 1.077
FG 1.019
IBU 57
ABV 7.5 %
SRM 50

Based on NB Big Honkin Stout
BU:GU Target 75, recipe = 73.5
72% Mash Effy Estimated
2 oz Ground Sumatran coffee at flameout
2 oz Ground Kona coffee cold brewed, added at bottling
1.5 oz Dark bittersweet baker's chocolate at 15 mins.
1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins.
1.5 oz Cocoa Powder at 15 mins.
WLP001 from Highland Brewing Company

12.0 lb British Pale
2.0 lb German Light Munich
0.5 lb Belgian Black Kiln Malt (sub for Black Patent)
0.5 lb British Roasted Barley
0.25 lb British Extra Dark Crystal
0.25 lb British Chocolate
0.25 lb Carafa II
0.25 lb Carafa III

1.4 oz Challenger pellet 8.3AA 60 min - 36.5 IBU
1.0 oz Cascade pellet 5.7AA 30 min - 13.8 IBU
1.0 oz Cascade pellet 5.7AA 10 min - 6.5 IBU
Total 57 IBU

I will add Bourbon (Buffalo Trace) soaked medium toast oak cubes to the fermenter after 1-2 weeks of fermentation.

Cheers,
~Adam

Brewed my own version of this last night. Hoping it turns out well. It was black as motor oil and the smells coming out of the airlock are amazing.

Batch Size 5.5 gal Boil Size 7.75 gal
Boil Time 1.500 hr Efficiency 70%
OG 1.102 FG 1.026
ABV 10.0% Bitterness 78.3 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 58 SRM (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 342

Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 17.000 lb Yes No 78% 3 L
Oats, Flaked Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 80% 1 L
Chocolate Malt (US) Grain 1.500 lb Yes No 60% 350 L
Special B Malt Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 65% 160 L
Caramel 160L Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 72% 120 L
Black Barley (Roast Barley) 8.000 oz Yes No 55% 500 L

Summit 18% 1.000 oz Boil 1.500 hr Pellet 42.2
Warrior 17% 0.500 oz Boil 1.500 hr Pellet 20.0
Chinook 12% 1.000 oz Boil 20.000 min Pellet 16.0
Warrior 17% 0.500 oz Boil 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

2 packs Wyeast 1056 - American Ale

Pre-boil Gravity - 1.069, measured OG - 1.093, added 2 oz coarse ground Elevations Kona Nights coffee at flameout, added 2.5 oz 60% cacao ghiradelli and 1.5 oz 100% cacao ghiradelli at 15 min.

Plan is to let it sit in primary 3-4 weeks and then secondary 2 weeks or so on top of some whole coffee beans.

I made a batch of this, now 4 days in the primary. I have never made a beer this big before. Usually I just leave in the primary until bottling. Is it necessary to rack this off the primary, or can you leave a big beer like this on the cake for 2 weeks or more until bottling? I have read about thick layers of chocolate and such on the bottom and am not certain what is the best thing to do.

I have milled over some posts about medium toast oak soaked in bourbon for the secondary, which sounds cool as hell......

Thanks for any input you guys have!!!!!!

I've done just the one batch, and it turned out GREAT! A month in the primary, then bottled, and it was getting pretty good after a couple of months in the bottle. Biggest mash I've ever done- maxed out a 10 gal Rubbermaid "big orange" cooler w/ 5 gals of strike water. Also the biggest trub....it was a very solid inch / inch & a half. I've still got a couple of sixes left pushing a few weeks short of a year in the bottle, and it's very close to the eponymous beer, with more flavor, I think.

I have never made a beer this big before. Usually I just leave in the primary until bottling. Is it necessary to rack this off the primary, or can you leave a big beer like this on the cake for 2 weeks or more until bottling?

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Some folks going straight to bottling may want to secondary this beer to get most of the sediment out. If you are careful during racking though, I don't see a firm need to secondary the beer. I too normally just use primary to keg / or bottle.

On my recent brew posted above, I plan to keg my beer after 4 weeks of primary only. I added bourbon soaked oak cubes after 1 week of fermentation, it will go into the keg (my secondary) for 6 weeks or so of storage at room temp to condition.

Cheers,
~Adam

I just brewed this and my OG was 1.090. Is that going to be a problem?

Do you have an extract version?

I brewed this about 6 months ago and just tested a bottle next to a fresh FBS. Everyone who tried it liked the clone version better, myself included. The real FBS had a slightly bigger body and a more bitter coffee flavor, while my clone version was smoother and a bit lighter feeling, a bit less bitter, and was more chocolatey. All in all a great recipe.