Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

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DeathBrewer,

Can this method be used for all-grain recipes that call for more complex mash schedules? Do you just leave the pot covered and turn up the heat when you need to step between the mash temperatures?
 
DeathBrewer,

Can this method be used for all-grain recipes that call for more complex mash schedules? Do you just leave the pot covered and turn up the heat when you need to step between the mash temperatures?


I've been experimenting with more "complicated" mash techniques for BIAB(None were really difficult, just different ways to do it).

The sum of my experience for myself is to just apply direct heat, slowly to the kettle (Using an electric stove with the coils). I got a grain bag from a brewing website, so I can't say anything for the paint strainer bags (which are often disposable), but the direct heat doesn't damage my bag. While doing this, I usually try to get my bag suspended, and not sitting on the bottom at the direct heat. I do this for the grain more so than the bag. And the key to this is: stir, stir, stir. Stiring moves around the grain and brings the temperature of the mash tun to an equilibrium. Don't leave it sitting for too long, you will scorch the grains on the bottom, which is much hotter than the top. You will lose heat from stirring, but keeping the grains moving is more important. Doing this, I've had my burner on almost full power. This can allow you to get to different steps, but it isn't the only way.

Infusion is possible, but with my setup, I don't have a lot of room to add the water required to step things up. As DeathBrewer states, after you mash in, you want to be as close to the top of the kettle as possible to reduce headspace and slow the cooling of the mash tun. Doing this works well, but will leave you with NO room to infuse.

A better option is decoction. I don't see why you can't do this like a normal mash tun requires, but will likely have its difficulties. The amount of time it takes for decoction is something you have to not only consider for your brewday, but for your mash tun and the rest as well. When taking off a portion of your mash to boil, the part that is left is going to cool faster, and for the time it takes to rest and boil the decoction, will loose temperature. You might be able to compensate for this by pulling a bigger decoction to make up for the loss, but knowing exactally how much will take practice.


All of these things I've tried take practice to get right for MY system. If you have more room in your kettle, maybe infusion is a more legit option. If you use gas to heat the mash tun, maybe direct heat isn't best for you. Try things out, you'll no doubt not get it right on your first try, but you'll learn a lot about your process, and it's benefits and faults

I did this recently to brew an Agave Wheat beer. I gave it a ferulic acid rest at 114F (for the 4vg) for 15 minutes, then brought it up to 152F for the main rest. Worked out fine, and I got 73% efficiency. It was also much easier to keep a temp for the main rest with the heat on low, rather than wrapped in towels. I only fluctuated a couple degrees, then could quickly correct for it.


If anyone else has any experience, I would love to hear it. I don't think I'll be moving on to a traditional mash tun anytime soon until I see more limitations with this method.

Mike
 
Yeah, I plan on getting an extra 5-gallon pot for this - which won't leave me much headroom for infusion, and I'm ok with that (for the same reason DeathBrewer said about headroom, and you echoed)...

I will honestly have to read up on decoction before I can comment on that, as I am uneducated on that subject.

I suppose another option starting off with is just doing SMaSH recipes - which I kind of like the idea of anyway.

A lot of the recipes that look good to me are also already single rest (or whatever the proper terminology is) mashes anyway - I was just curious.

Thanks!
 
Yeah, I was thinking about wrapping that stuff around the pot first, with strips of duct tape along the top and bottom edges of insulation, then folding up a big hand towel or something to set on top.

:rockin:
 
Yeah, I was thinking about wrapping that stuff around the pot first, with strips of duct tape along the top and bottom edges of insulation, then folding up a big hand towel or something to set on top.

:rockin:

Sounds like a plan. Carefule with that duct tape, the heat could really melt that glue on there. I've had duct tape stuck to things that didn't heat up that I couldn't get off.
 
Can you elaborate on what you made the jacket out of and how?

EDIT: is your jacket removable? i.e. you only put it on the MT when the heat is turned off?

agenthucky - yeah, that's my concern now too. By looking for something more permanent than blankets, I'm making it so that it has to withstand heat from the burner. I wonder if towels and bungee would be safer...
 
Can you elaborate on what you made the jacket out of and how?

EDIT: is your jacket removable? i.e. you only put it on the MT when the heat is turned off?

agenthucky - yeah, that's my concern now too. By looking for something more permanent than blankets, I'm making it so that it has to withstand heat from the burner. I wonder if towels and bungee would be safer...


I don't wrap mine in anything while it is on the heat. Only if I decide to take it off, like for single infusions.
 
Can you elaborate on what you made the jacket out of and how?

EDIT: is your jacket removable? i.e. you only put it on the MT when the heat is turned off?

agenthucky - yeah, that's my concern now too. By looking for something more permanent than blankets, I'm making it so that it has to withstand heat from the burner. I wonder if towels and bungee would be safer...

I heat the water and then I add the grains and then I cover it with the jacket. I NEVER apply heat once I'm mashed in, it's too difficult to get it right...the temp will go up too high and go back down when you mix, etc...it's a mess.

We have some aluminum-sheet-sided fiberglass insulation. I just cut out a piece, wrapped it around the mash tun and taped all the corners (so no fiberglass comes out) and taped it to fit. It's really ugly but it works great. I still throw a pillow on the top and then slide the jacket over that.

My buddy uses the "car window" reflectors with bungee cords and I've used towels with bungee cords many times in the past.

I've also used towels, bungee cords, and ice packs to wrap my 15 gallon sanke kegs that I use as fermenters during the summer. I just put in one bungee cord, throw the ice packs under the towel, and secure it with the other bungee cords. The options are limitless! :D
 
I think I'm gonna KISS and do towels + bungee cords. :)

I have estimated that going all-grain with your advice is going to cost me less than $20, lol.

$5 for a straining bag (and that's if I get it online and not the Lowe's alternative mentioned)
$5 for a floating thermometer
$5 for a couple small bungees?

I got towels out the ass & I can borrow a 5gal stockpot...

THANKS DEATHBREWER!
 
I heat the water and then I add the grains and then I cover it with the jacket. I NEVER apply heat once I'm mashed in, it's too difficult to get it right...the temp will go up too high and go back down when you mix, etc...it's a mess.


DB makes a good point. You need to apply heat slowly, and mix well or else you can overshoot. If you want to ramp fast for bigger steps, thats fine, but turn it down before you hit your target, and slowly let it climb the rest of the 5-7 degrees.
 
For my first brew ever, I'm trying this tomorrow with the Hop Head Double IPA (Midwest). I've got two 30qt SS pot rearing to go. I modified them with insulation from Lowe's (aluminum-coated bubble wrap). I did a test boil tonight with 4 gal and hit rolling in 29min. Psyched...
 
Honestly? I use the exact same size mash tuns and I have a solution for your insulation problems that is FREE!!

Preheat your oven to 200F

Once you hit the target temp, put a lid on it, and place it in your preheated oven. (lowest rack)

Then, close the oven and turn off the heat completely. Trust me - I have done DB method about 20 times, and have never lost a single degree doing it this way. The residual heat in the oven keeps the temp in.

This weekend I will do 2 mashes at the same time to make an IIPA.
 
+1 on using the oven. I leave one rack in the lowest slot, turn the oven to 170F and leave it on. I stir the mash every 15 minutes or so. Both times I've done this the temp has stayed right at the mash temperature and I've gotten 70+ efficiency.
 
+1 on using the oven. I leave one rack in the lowest slot, turn the oven to 170F and leave it on. I stir the mash every 15 minutes or so. Both times I've done this the temp has stayed right at the mash temperature and I've gotten 70+ efficiency.

I was wondering about this. My stove goes to 170F for the lowest setting. Does the 170F ambient heat up the mash at all? Maybe the sirring corrects for it. Also, what about leaving the door a little open?

I'm thinking it might not be worth it to have my oven on for an hour, but I will at least have to try it and see what I get. I don't think the increase in efficiency will make up for the cost of using the stove. But if it makes great beer, that's a different story.
 
I personally don't understand the oven method. It may work for some, but most ovens are much hotter than the ~150°F that you want to mash at...it has to heat it up some and the last thing I want is to mash at 156°F or higher.

Also, I have very little problem maintaining a mash temp in the pot on the stovetop. As discussed before, a blanket and some bungee cords will ensure temp is held, but even when I just let it sit and it dropped to 140°F by the end of the hour, it made fantastic beer.
 
I personally don't understand the oven method. It may work for some, but most ovens are much hotter than the ~150°F that you want to mash at...it has to heat it up some and the last thing I want is to mash at 156°F or higher.

Also, I have very little problem maintaining a mash temp in the pot on the stovetop. As discussed before, a blanket and some bungee cords will ensure temp is held, but even when I just let it sit and it dropped to 140°F by the end of the hour, it made fantastic beer.

I was talking via email with Kai Troester (via James from basic Brewing) and we talked about what goes on in detail when you loose a lot of temp, or "step down" your mash. His thoughts on it were that a beer that was mashed at 156F and dropped to 145F or some other number would come out much like a beer mashed at 156F for the whole time. I think there might be efficiency loss in the temp loss, but as far as the profile goes, you still will have a lot of the 156F character in your beer.

The problem is that at a high temp is that you are denaturing the enzymes (Beta amylase) that work at lower temps, while you speed up the enzymes that work at a higher one (Alpha amylase). These higher temp enzymes don't work for the whole hour if your temp drops. Once they are out of range, they stop working the same way. So when you are starting high and loosing temp, you are hurting the enzymes that you will want to use during the later half, when you get to that temp. This reduces your efficiency. Rather than, say starting low, getting the most out of the enzymes that work atthe lower temps, and then ramping it, damaging the lower ones (that you no longer need), while activating the higher temp ones. However, when you start high and end lower, the enzymes that worked at the higher temps did their job, and made longer chains of sugars that are less fermentable, so you still end up with that type of beer.

That said, I have lost quite a bit of temp, and still LOVED the beer. My problem with trying to insulate it on the counter is that sometimes I loose heat, sometimes I don't. This is more evident when I am brewing smaller than 5 gallons, and have a lot of head space. When insulated, if I stir, I lose temp. I also feel I loose temp through my counter top, and if I leave it on the burner (but off), there is airspace under the burner, cooling the bottom. I have tried the blankets and pillow, and lost 1-2F, but at times I've lost almost 10F. I'd like to be consistant.

DB, do you stir during your rest? I like to every 15 minutes, but that introduces heat loss.

I'm going to give the oven method a shot for the sake of trying it. I monitor my temp remotely, so it will be easy to find if I get too much heat. I think I might crack the door on the stove as well. My wheat beer came out fine with using the burner to maintain the temp while stirring.
 
These higher temp enzymes don't work for the whole hour if your temp drops.

Just a note, if you are mashing at higher temps, the enzymes work faster (as all chemical reactions do) and mashing a whole hour is most likely not needed, as they do most of their job quickly in the first 15.
 
I may stir once in a while, but I don't have a habit of it. It's not necessary...the enzymes are getting to where they need to (unless you have doughballs) and 60 minutes is probably double the amount of time you really need. I've only been doing 45 minute mashes for my all-grain with the cooler lately. I'm sure it would work just as well with the bag. I've never tried it though, because my tea-bag batches are usually lazy brew days, so they sit over an hour anyway.

There is no real efficiency loss in the temp loss, but yes...the initial mash temperature will derive the most flavor. Think of it like this...you can step mash forward, but not backward. Once your starches are converted, they cannot be reversed. So if you mash high, say at 154°F, and then it drops, whatever has ALREADY been converted will stay in the state it is in. Whatever starches have not yet been converted will be then converted at lower temps as it drops, so unless you have a really fast drop, you'll still get the flavor you want.

Let me know how the oven works. I haven't heard anyone with a bad experience yet, but it seems odd that it doesn't raise the temp of the mash, and as I stated...I'd much rather loose temp than accidentally gain it.

I HAVE heard a lot of bad experiences with using burners, however, especially electric. Again, it works for some people, but is not something I recommend simply because it's so inconsistent.
 
I HAVE heard a lot of bad experiences with using burners, however, especially electric. Again, it works for some people, but is not something I recommend simply because it's so inconsistent.

I was thinking about this (although I've heard direct flame is worse than electric). The portion that is right above the burner MUST be hotter than the rest of the mash. Like I emphisized, stir, stir, stir. But even with stirring I was wondering the effects of the small amount of space that has the higher temp. I am wondering if this caused perhaps a smaller portion of it to be caramelized. Like I said, it came out fine, but there isn't a way to compare it to one that wasn't sitting on that small amount of direct heat.

Let's not forget the biggest element when doing things like this...the human element. Some might get lazy, and forget, some might sit there like a watch dog (like me!) and stirr constantly. Like you said, bag brew days are lazy brew days, in that case, NO DIRECT HEAT!
 
I was thinking about this (although I've heard direct flame is worse than electric). The portion that is right above the burner MUST be hotter than the rest of the mash. Like I emphisized, stir, stir, stir. But even with stirring I was wondering the effects of the small amount of space that has the higher temp. I am wondering if this caused perhaps a smaller portion of it to be caramelized. Like I said, it came out fine, but there isn't a way to compare it to one that wasn't sitting on that small amount of direct heat.

Let's not forget the biggest element when doing things like this...the human element. Some might get lazy, and forget, some might sit there like a watch dog (like me!) and stirr constantly. Like you said, bag brew days are lazy brew days, in that case, NO DIRECT HEAT!

True, constant stirring and checking temp will help, and is a method I use sometimes when stepping up all-grain batches in my keg mash tun. It definitely depends on the user and this tutorial is meant for beginners and for general easy brew days.

All this talk about direct heat makes me want to try a steinbier

SRSLY. My buddy and I have been talking about this for years. It will happen someday.
 
It definitely depends on the user and this tutorial is meant for beginners and for general easy brew days.

Don't forget this came from someone wondering how to do more exptic mash methods. While it cetrainly isn't needed to this method, or to brew great beer, it is one of the easiest ways to step with this method (when comparing to decoction). But it is in NO way necessary.


SRSLY. My buddy and I have been talking about this for years. It will happen someday.

Yes, I'm trying to push a friend to do it with me (what a lot of work for one brewer). But where to find the correct rocks...
 
Yes, I'm trying to push a friend to do it with me (what a lot of work for one brewer). But where to find the correct rocks...

Oh god, another thing my girlfriend can be pissed at me for stock piling in my closet...random large rocks I find when hiking.
 
My friend talked about the exact rocks you're supposed to use. If I ever remember to talk to him about it, I'll post.

Awesome! Not only does it require a correct type of rock, I have to be able to find it!

Graywacke is the traditionally used rock from a historical perspective, but the requirements are:

(1) can take the thermal shock of being heated and cooled
and
(2) will not interact chemically with the wort itself.

Some rocks will change the pH quite a bit, along with rub off in the beer.
 
Used this method yesterday brewing my first AG, BM's Centennial Blonde Ale and it worked like a champ. A lot more work involved than using extract but fun regardless. Its been about 14 hours since I added yeast and the thing is bubbling like mad just fermenting away. Cant wait to try it. thanks for the tutorial Death Brewer. :mug:
 
That look seriously easy. I'm at 30 day in primary on my first extract and I have two more kits to do. But you made AG look very simple to do without all the equipment. I think I'm going to try this after I finish my two kits. thanks DeathBrewer, you the man.:rockin:
 
I jumped right in with an Imperial Stout, had lower than expected SG but the brew turned out fantastic, honestly probably the best beer I've ever had. And I drank them young too haha (I always seem to drink my brews young)
 
Hefeweizen are some of my favorites. Standard Hefeweizen recipe:

6 lbs Wheat Malt
4 lbs Pilsner Malt
2 oz Aromatic Malt
Mash @ ~150°F

60 minute bittering addition of hops at ~10 IBUs.
Best hops are Tettnanger, Hallertau, Saaz, or any Noble-type Hops. Fuggle works well, too.

WLP300 with a starter for a nice fermentation. Ferment in the low 60s for clean flavor.
 
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