Founder's Double Trouble Clone

Anyone have a clone recipe for Founder's Double Trouble? It's pretty high on my list of favorite beers and I'd love to try my hand at making it myself. I only have the capability to brew extract for now, but I've read that it's fairly easy to convert numbers between AG an extract recipes.

I guess no one has this excellent beer. I too am looking for a recipe for Founders Double Trouble DIPA

Looks like BYO Magazine has a clone recipe in their Dec ‘09 issue.

I emailed them and got this reply

20plato OG and the hopping is use Summit for bittering and a blend of Simcoe and Amarillo for flavor, finish and dry-hop. On my Pro-Mash recipe software I target 180 IBUs, but in reality I only extract probably half of that. Ferment it with an American yeast and dry hop it with at least a half ounce per gallon towards the end of primary fermentation.

I havent got round to brewing it yet though

Where can I get a copy of the BYO magazine for dec of 09?

I asked Soper to look it up in BYO dec 09 but its not Founders. That recipe was different and had chinook, columbus, centennial etc.

I'm determined to try this. But my calculations show an OG of 20, or about 1.083 converted, and an ABV of 9.3% which is what my bottle says, to be pretty damn near impossible. Well not impossible but 84% attenuation.

Here's an admittedly noobish shot in the dark at a recipe:

12 lbs 2-row
2 lbs Munich
1 lbs Crystal 10L

60m - 3 oz Summit
30m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
15m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
5m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
dry hop: 1.5 oz amarillo/simco each

any suggestions? I think the color needs to be really light and a pretty low fg. What's the best attenuation yeast out there? I've got a Bell's clone that hit 1.008 on a pale ale, might be a good candidate!

If someone can clone the flavor AND the color AND the clarity they should consider starting a professional brewery, IMHO. It appears impossible to me. That beer is still good the next morning when it is warm and flat. That is certainly not the case for many a DIPA leftover on my nightstand.

I never had DIPA left over on my nightstand.

esarkipato said:

I'm determined to try this. But my calculations show an OG of 20, or about 1.083 converted, and an ABV of 9.3% which is what my bottle says, to be pretty damn near impossible. Well not impossible but 84% attenuation.

Here's an admittedly noobish shot in the dark at a recipe:

12 lbs 2-row
2 lbs Munich
1 lbs Crystal 10L

60m - 3 oz Summit
30m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
15m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
5m - 1 oz amarillo/simco each
dry hop: 1.5 oz amarillo/simco each

any suggestions? I think the color needs to be really light and a pretty low fg. What's the best attenuation yeast out there? I've got a Bell's clone that hit 1.008 on a pale ale, might be a good candidate!

Click to expand...

Did you ever try this? I would go with straight 2-row and double the dry hop

songstre said:

I never had DIPA left over on my nightstand.

Click to expand...

If I did, you better be sure I'd try it.

@mb2696: not yet. Sadly.

was trying to come up with a recipe from bit and pieces i picked up. decided to look it up more and saw this post has been updated since i last looked at it.

would like to see what people think of this for a liquid extract partial recipe.
i add the extract after mash, stirring good but only poor 3 gallons in, let that hit the hot break, add another gallon, let it hot break, then add last, let it hot break, then add bittering and start, i can't fit more in my pot. but i'm afraid it might come out too dark, so i might try 60 minutes instead.
looking at the previous recipe, i'm highly considering more dryhops, wow you thinking of 3oz. whew, heck i love hops anyway lol

9.00 lb Extra Pale Malt Extract (2.5 SRM) Extract 72.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 8.00 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
1.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (75 min) Hops 39.9 IBU
2.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (20 min) Hops 19.4 IBU
1.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (10 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 16.00 %
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


*edited recipe, think this one might be a touch closer in color and added more dry-hops*

Anybody ever try this?

deggenbe said:

was trying to come up with a recipe from bit and pieces i picked up. decided to look it up more and saw this post has been updated since i last looked at it.

would like to see what people think of this for a liquid extract partial recipe.
i add the extract after mash, stirring good but only poor 3 gallons in, let that hit the hot break, add another gallon, let it hot break, then add last, let it hot break, then add bittering and start, i can't fit more in my pot. but i'm afraid it might come out too dark, so i might try 60 minutes instead.
looking at the previous recipe, i'm highly considering more dryhops, wow you thinking of 3oz. whew, heck i love hops anyway lol

9.00 lb Extra Pale Malt Extract (2.5 SRM) Extract 72.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 8.00 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
1.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (75 min) Hops 39.9 IBU
2.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (20 min) Hops 19.4 IBU
1.00 oz Summit [15.50 %] (10 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 16.00 %
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


*edited recipe, think this one might be a touch closer in color and added more dry-hops*

Click to expand...

Recipe looks pretty close. I would dry-hop with the amarillo probably before the summit though. I have wondered how they get the clarity/mouthfeel/strong hop flavor in this beer. Let us know how it turns out, I'd like to try one close to this.

in order for this to work in get the beer to attenuate as far as possible, you will need to mash low, in the 147 to 148 range,resulting in a dryer beer .you could improve the mouth feel by integrating an adjunct such as golden naked oats (2-3%). I would think doing an all grain is the only way to go about this, I do not think extract batch would work because the complexity of the sugars producedby the extracts will be different than those produced by an all green mashed at a lower temperature.

i never did try this one. but since then i've converted to all-grain and may try it in the not so distant future.

i agree on the amarillo hops instead of summit also.

legasus233 said:

in order for this to work in get the beer to attenuate as far as possible, you will need to mash low, in the 147 to 148 range,resulting in a dryer beer .you could improve the mouth feel by integrating an adjunct such as golden naked oats (2-3%). I would think doing an all grain is the only way to go about this, I do not think extract batch would work because the complexity of the sugars producedby the extracts will be different than those produced by an all green mashed at a lower temperature.

Click to expand...

How 'bout us partial mashers? Think we can get close enough to satisfy the household if we repalce some of that base malt with light dme?

I really wish there was some headway made on this...

*Drinking a Double Trouble as I typed this*

Just had this on tap at Spacebar in Falls Church, VA and it's the most fantastic thing I've had since going to San Diego a few years ago.

I'll attempt to make some headway and report back.

As promised, I've given this a go and here is the report back:

Here is a link BrewToad which shows the recipe I devised called Mike's Double Dragon. I am going to post a version here on HBT in a moment and will include a link to that soon.

http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/mikes-double-dragon

Edit: here is the link to the recipe here on HBT.



The recipe is based on the text from this thread which reads:

"20plato OG and the hopping is use Summit for bittering and a blend of Simcoe and Amarillo for flavor, finish and dry-hop. On my Pro-Mash recipe software I target 180 IBUs, but in reality I only extract probably half of that. Ferment it with an American yeast and dry hop it with at least a half ounce per gallon towards the end of primary fermentation."

From that point I basically followed the guidelines from Russian River for creating a double ipa: low use of Crystal malt, mostly 2-row, corn sugar to boost ABV, etc.

So today I finished the second dry hop step and kegged. I pulled a quick sample after kegging and HOT DAMN this is good! I've found myself going back to the tap 3 times for a 4oz sampler.

So it's not quite finished yet. I will post back in a week with a photo and a taste comparison. But here are my initial thoughts:

1) I had an OG of 1.085 and a final gravity of 1.008. That gives this a whopping 10.1% ABV, almost 1% above Founders. Honestly I didn't expect the S-05 to do quite that well! I achieved such high attenuation by keeping fermentation at 68 and swirling the fermenter (which is filled with CO2 and won't oxidize) whenever possible as fermentation died down. I upped the temps to the 70s for one final push on the last day or two.

2) From memory the color is too light. It's a straw color with a slight orange hue from the Munich malt. I'm still thinking about what to do to boost the color, but maybe use crystal 60 instead?

Tasting this early sample, here are my thoughts:

Appearance: Straw with an orange hue. On the light side for an IPA but acceptable. Clear with a very slight haze. Will update with head retention later.

Smell: Hop forward for sure. Pine, grapefruit, passion fruit, apricot, a little boozy.

Taste: Very dry, passion fruit and apricots, nice slick bitterness that coats the back of the tongue and lingers (this is something I notice with Double Trouble as well). A hint of alcohol but very pleasant, I would have guessed 8% ABV, not 10%.

Mouthfeel: Hard to review at this early stage but I would say it is thin, crisp, and flat since it has no carbonation.

Overall: When you can drink it flat, it's a winner. Probably the best I have ever brewed, but also the most involved. The best thing I've had on the east coast.

So there you have it. This is a good one. I'm going to post it in the recipes section in a moment. Pics to follow in a week or so.

-Mike
Twitter: @MikeKGibson
[email protected]

Here are some pictures of Mike's Double Dragon in a 6oz snifter, and it's fantastic!





I'm having trouble finding a bottle of Double Trouble to do a direct comparison, but I think mine is lighter and a touch more alcoholic. Part of that is my fault for not using enough water in the mash and sparge to hit the full 5.5 gallons called for by my recipe, so this came out at 10% ABV instead of 9% which is more in line with Double Trouble.

To adjust it toward Double Trouble I will boost the Munich Malt to 12oz and use Crystal/Caramel 60 instead, or maybe Crystal 40 with a pinch of Chocolate Malt for color. I've tried to avoid Crystal malts as much as possible to avoid any residual sweetness. I would lower the sugar addition to 10% of the malt bill instead of 12% to cut down on the alcohol flavors.

Here is my review of the finished beer:

A: Pale straw with a hint of orange. Small bubbly head which lingers on top. Some lacing. A slight haze but mostly clear.

S: Hoppy pine. Alcohol present. Fruity apricots and passion fruit.

T: Very dry and drinkable, passion fruit and apricots, nice slick bitterness that coats the back of the tongue and lingers. Sweet on the tip of the tongue, hard to believe since it finished at 1.008. The alcohol has become more present since my initial review and at 10% I think it's too noticeable, but other tasters have disagreed.

Mouthfeel: Fizzy and light, crisp, watery.

Overall: An excellent west coast style double IPA (brewed in VA). Met with rave reviews by everyone who has tried it. I think that being anal about oxygen exposure, attenuation and water profile paid off. The hops shine. I will brew this again and aim for 9% ABV with the correct water amounts and slightly less sugar.

Ugh, it rotated my image? Sorry about that. I will try to crop it or something.

There we go.

So how does it taste in a side by side with double trouble?


TD

It tastes more like Double Trouble on tap than the bottled ones I had. The one I had on tap was 2 months ago, the bottles about 3 weeks ago. The one on tap was superior in every way. I was going to save one bottle but they seemed a bit old, so I thought "I'll just get some fresh ones"...

Of course now I can't find any.

I bottled some of mine today just in case the keg is kicked before I can find some to compare. Eventually I'll be able to post a comparison.

Ok, I have done a head to head taste test!

Overall I think Double Dragon is superior to bottled Double Trouble, and it's a tie for kegged Double Trouble.

I feel like I detect some kind of staling in the bottles. There's not bottle date, but the bottles I got were at least two months old judging by the Total Wine sticker on them.

Anyway, the color is pretty much spot on as you can see in the photo: Double Dragon on the left, Double Trouble on the right.



I think Double Trouble is a tiny bit darker and more orange, evident in larger volumes.

My tasting notes from the head to head tasting:

-Double Dragon is more fruity, slightly sweeter (despite finishing at 1.008: it is a good sweetness that doesn't clash with the hops... maybe it's even from the hops)

-Double Dragon has a more alcoholic smell

-Double Trouble is slightly darker and oranger

-Double Dragon is more watery, Double Trouble is more chewy and syrupy

-Double Dragon in the bottle had a flavor that I associated with staling hops, reminded me of some older bottles of DFH 60 and 90 Minute IPAs that I've had. This is not present at all in Double Dragon.

-The two taste remarkably similar, Double Dragon being my preference.

And last but not least, here is the label for Double Dragon!

Curious what hops you used ?


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I’m thinking of making this, adding oak chips I’ve had in bourbon since January and trying to recreate Doom.