I have a few questions on this one. First one being, does the fermentaion ever really stop... I added 3/4 teaspoon to a 6.25 gallon batch with a sg of 1.052 in the secondary and it's been 2 long weeks.. Still about 3/16" of little white bubbles. Is this normal.. I've heard that it can kick your abv up a full %. Any truth to that? And how dry is dry?? Any body that takes in a little white powder from time to time let me know. Thanks for reading. One other thing.. Using 1056 what fg am i looking at?
amylase enzyme... A.k.a... beano
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Get ready for a wait. Beano does convert otherwise non-sugared starches by breaking them down but it is a slow process.jesse said:
My only experience with beano resulted in gushers.
As far as a predicted FG, no way of knowing without having all the other details.
If you want to kick up the ABV%, add more DME or corn sugar.
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Mine sat in a carboy, after adding Beano, for about 3 months.
I primed as normal and 2 weeks later, the carbonation was perfect, but the unlagered beer tasted like ass.
2 months later, with 2 months of lagering, the beer tasted awesome, but it was insanely overcarbed. I drank every last one, fearing a bottle bomb if I let them rest any longer.
Beano helped the fermentation along, but honestly, your question is one that I myself have asked.....
Does the fermentation ever stop?
In my limited experience, the answer is no.. and that is scary.
I primed as normal and 2 weeks later, the carbonation was perfect, but the unlagered beer tasted like ass.
2 months later, with 2 months of lagering, the beer tasted awesome, but it was insanely overcarbed. I drank every last one, fearing a bottle bomb if I let them rest any longer.
Beano helped the fermentation along, but honestly, your question is one that I myself have asked.....
Does the fermentation ever stop?
In my limited experience, the answer is no.. and that is scary.
zoebisch01
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Damn Squirrels said:
Rofl, sorry to laugh at your misfortune but you choice of words was funny
From all of the threads talking about beano, I haven't seen terribly much praise about it other than it kept a ferment going.
My personal philosophy on beer is that (well part of it anyway) is to let your recipe be your recipe, in other words if that is how it is...then that is how it is. If you add beano to correct a 'stuck' ferment then I'd say there is a problem in the process.
On the other hand if the beer just finished high and you wanted it lower then I'd say one of two things....first would be try a higher attenuating strain next time or if the style permits, consider experimenting with some Brettanomyces....or if you brew AG then you can consider mashing low...I have done 146 with tremendous results in terms of dryness.
Also do everything you can to ensure that your yeast are happy and healthy so they can reach the numbers you are shooting for in terms of attenuation.
poetic_entropy
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I added beano, probably first and last time, to my rasp honey wheat. I mashed at 152 after protein rest and my fg still stood around 23. I put in 2 tabs smashed, how long am I going to have to wait now? I am checkin gravity today, we'll see where it is. I was shooting for 09 or 10 FG, Is beano gonna take it lower than that?
Thank you
Thank you
homebrewer_99
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56 / 4 = 14jesse said:
DeNovo
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Thought I'd add a note to this thread. I used 15 drops of liquid beano (amylase) to the secondary of this 1.059 OG blueberry ale, partly to attempt a somewhat lower carb ale, and partly just to see what it'd do. Held out a gallon without the beano for a control.
Well, the control finished at 1.011, but the beano-treated kept dropping. Finally hit bottom at 1.001. Here's the progression:
8/26 - 1.024 (and very murky from the blueberry pectin, I guess)
8/28 - 1.013
9/01 - 1.008
9/03 - 1.006
9/19 - 1.000 OK, thats DRY. Flavor is quite nice, though...
Added some gelatin finings on 9/29
Plan to bottle on 9/30
Well, the control finished at 1.011, but the beano-treated kept dropping. Finally hit bottom at 1.001. Here's the progression:
8/26 - 1.024 (and very murky from the blueberry pectin, I guess)
8/28 - 1.013
9/01 - 1.008
9/03 - 1.006
9/19 - 1.000 OK, thats DRY. Flavor is quite nice, though...
Added some gelatin finings on 9/29
Plan to bottle on 9/30
JVD_X
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Is your hydrometer calibrated to exactly zero? I have three hydrometers and they all read differently in distilled water.
Cpt_Kirks
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Hmm, I just had a thought (dangerous, I know).
If you brew with tap water, should you zero your hydrometer with tap water instead of distilled water?
JVD_X
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No... you should always "zero" your hydrometer using distilled water at the temperature indicated on the slip of paper that either came with your hydrometer or located in the text of the hydrometer itself.
My understanding is that beano is NOT amylase, but alpha-galactosidase. Not having any personal experience using either, it seems that folks have more predictable results with amylase extract over beano.
Chester
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this is what I thought too. Amylase is suppose to be much more controllable. It will stop and if your gravity still isn't low enough you can add more. please correct me if I am wrong, I have half a pound of Amylase enzyme on the shelf I have been considering putting in a beer....
Chester
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according to wikipedia Beano contains alpha galactosidase and invertase enzymes
Alpha Amylase has a branching limit, so when it stops, it's done. Adding more won't change anything.
On the other hand, alpha-galactosidase can breakdown almost any complex sugar or carbohydrate into simple sugars and it just keeps going.
On the other hand, alpha-galactosidase can breakdown almost any complex sugar or carbohydrate into simple sugars and it just keeps going.
JKoravos
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I think that's a little bit of overkill. You have to have a ridiculous amount of dissolved solids in your tap water to throw your reading off by even 0.001.
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I have used Amylase Enzyme (AE) in several beers and have gotten good results. That said, I used LHBS AE. NOT Beano.
It makes the beer dry about 1.000-1.002
I use this in the mash and in 2ndary. I only use this on my Miller Lite Clone. The beer has a 1.030 OG and will finish very close to zero and stop. So a beer like this will be a about 4%.
I have used it 4 times with each result being the same.
Here is the link, its also in my drop-down recipe list. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/miller-lite-really-triple-hopped-123937/
It makes the beer dry about 1.000-1.002
I use this in the mash and in 2ndary. I only use this on my Miller Lite Clone. The beer has a 1.030 OG and will finish very close to zero and stop. So a beer like this will be a about 4%.
I have used it 4 times with each result being the same.
Here is the link, its also in my drop-down recipe list. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/miller-lite-really-triple-hopped-123937/
JVD_X
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That's how you are supposed to do it. My opinion is, if you are going to do it... do it right. Besides, distilled water from Target is like 87 cents.
My question is: how much alpha amylase do you add? I have a stuck ferment at 1.024 and can't get it down. So I ordered alpha amylase from AHB but realized I have no idea how much to add to drop ten points.
Wait a minute, JVD. You want to use distilled water to "do it right" on the hydrometer calibration, but you want to use alpha amylase to get over a stuck fermentation?
If you are going to do it, do it right. Take better care of your yeast, pitch properly, repitch, or create a more fermentable wort in the first place.
If your yeast are stuck, simply adding more sugar to the mix does not always cure the problem and, if it does, results in a different beer than you designed in the first place.
TL
If you are going to do it, do it right. Take better care of your yeast, pitch properly, repitch, or create a more fermentable wort in the first place.
If your yeast are stuck, simply adding more sugar to the mix does not always cure the problem and, if it does, results in a different beer than you designed in the first place.
TL
JKoravos
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My opinion is that there is no discernible difference between calibrating in tap water and calibrating in distilled water, unless you are using a microscope to read your hydrometer.
JVD_X
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Geez Tex...
In 20 years I have never had a stuck fermentation. All of a sudden I have had 3 in a row, including one which is a kit wine.
I have tried rousing the yeast, warming the fermenter, used a 2 liter starter (in the beer of course), etc... to no avail. Now I am going to try AA in the hopes that maybe I didn't convert well. Which is funny cause I did an iodine test and everything seemed OK. One beer used wyeast, the other White Labs, and the wine used dry yeast with the kit.
I am not sure there is a lot to be done about the wine. The include a packet of some chemical that is supposed to extend the ferment but that isn't supposed to be added until the wine ferments under a specific SG.
I am considering using AA in an AG Oatmeal Stout I brewed a couple of weeks ago. I mashed at 154 for 90 minutes. I actually thought I mashed a little too low. The OG was 1.066, and I'm only down to 1.024. I pitched 2 packs of rehydrated S-04, and fermented at 66-70 the whole time. Any thoughts? Will the AA dry out the Stout too much?
To comment on the Hydrometer discussion part of this thread.... even if your Hydrometer is not calibrated to 1.000 with 60 degree distilled water your readings and ABV calculations should still be accurate, relatively speaking. I don't think there's much importance in having a perfectly calibrated hydrometer. If you know what you're expecting based on your recipe, OG, FG, and ABV, then using any hydrometer you should be able to tell where you lie....
Kauai_Kahuna
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--
Doing a doctor eViL laugh. Schlenkerla this is what you started.
I'm trying a home brewers BMC master of all batch now.
9 lbs 2 row, 1 lb flaked corn, 1 lb flaked rice, 1 lb flaked wheat, 1 lb sugar.
I'm calling it my C5C, or cream of five crops.
I added AE in the mash, and will add AE in the secondary to try to bring this down to a FG of 1.001 or less. OG was 1.063.
Why, just to try it.
remilard
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As previously mentioned, distilled vs tap water for calibrating a hydrometer is immaterial, but....
Why are you supposed to do it with distilled water?
Because the relative density (specific gravity) of a liquid is normally measured with pure water as the reference. Never mind that a hydrometer can't correctly measure specific gravity anyway (again, immaterial but if we are going to be pedantic, lets be pedantic) due to the end of it being in air.
What do you want to measure, really, as a brewer? How much stuff you dissolved into your brewing liquor during mashing (and how much you concentrated during boiling how much the yeast ate etc). Is it better to use the brewing liquor or pure water as the reference (never minding that it doesn't matter either way in practice)?
JVD_X
Well-Known Member
People far smarter than myself have indicated that this is the correct protocol.
For myself, I find it is something I have complete and 100% control over in my brewing process. Sure 0.001 or 002 is relatively small but if you combine additional error factors (such as reading at 68 degrees or 55 degrees, or reading without first dislodging bubbles, or misreading the meniscus because you don't have your glasses on) the difference can add up to .005+ or so difference, which is - at least for me - an indication of reaching my preferred gravity or not.
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--
Doing a doctor eViL laugh. Schlenkerla this is what you started.
I'm trying a home brewers BMC master of all batch now.
9 lbs 2 row, 1 lb flaked corn, 1 lb flaked rice, 1 lb flaked wheat, 1 lb sugar.
I'm calling it my C5C, or cream of five crops.
I added AE in the mash, and will add AE in the secondary to try to bring this down to a FG of 1.001 or less. OG was 1.063.
Why, just to try it.
That will be good high ABV and dry beer.
Starting with a 1.063 OG
Using AE: ABV Range (8.1-8.3%) Assumes (1.000-1.002 FG)
W/O AE: ABV Range (6.74-7.26%) Assumes (1.008-1.012 FG)
Drink carefully, I bet it will be a dangerously good quaffer after the initial hotness dissipates. :rockin:Using AE: ABV Range (8.1-8.3%) Assumes (1.000-1.002 FG)
W/O AE: ABV Range (6.74-7.26%) Assumes (1.008-1.012 FG)
JVD - If I were you I'd try yeast nutrients or yeast energizer over AE. I think its more geared for cranking up a stuck ferment.
How do you know its stuck visual activity or the gravity? I more than once thought I had stuck ferments by visual means (air lock activity). Two things that happened to me. The ale-pale lid had a piece of plastic mold flash that was deforming the gasket and providing a loose seal. The other were fatigued carboy caps. They got too loose to seal over time. I used wing nut hose clamps on them to snug them down. No problems since then.
FYI - I normally use AE for increasing the mash eff. Specifically where you want the max eff with a small grain bill that has a considerable amount of adjuncts. Think BMC. Then I add it to the 2ndary to maximize the amount of abv and reduce corn-adjunct taste. It lowers the body to make it light and maybe even lower the calories.
JVD_X
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First - thanks for your response - always appreciated.
I had used Brewvint Yeast Fuel from Austin in the original ferment... I wasn't sure if I should add more. Also - I was sure I properly oxygenated... my o2 tank ran out when oxygenating but I then shook it crazy.
A hydrometer of-course. The beer was mashed 8/26. It fermented like crazy for a week or so then slowed down. After I see it fermenting I don't even look at my beer before 3 weeks. So - sometime in mid September I take a reading and I was at 1.026 - WAY above my goal of 11 and only 46% attenuation for the yeast which is supposed to be @ 74% or so. I rouse the yeast.
I wait two-three weeks and I take another reading @ 26 and there is no sign of activity... another rouse and this time I put the fermenter on top of a heating mat from NB.
A day before my last post I decide something is wrong... hence I think my mash sucked.
I added 1/4 teaspoon of AE about 4 days ago and roused once again... low and behold... I am fermenting. Have dropped 6 points and going strong. Now at 1.020... need to get down to 11. I am guessing my mash DID suck.
There is a thread going right now about bad LHBS advice, and I think I got some. I wanted to buy some AE to try and kick-start an Oatmeal Stout stuck at .026 for 3 weeks. The LHBS owner told me that it needs to be used in the mash, and that I couldn't add it to partially fermented beer. What gives? I really could use some advice here, because I'm *this close* to quitting brewing. My last 3 AG beers have been total disappointments due to low attenuation.
JVD_X
Well-Known Member
I would not quit. I have noted that this type of thread comes up quite a bit at this time of year. I may be full of "it" but to me it seems that the weather changing from warmer to colder has some effect on the yeast. Once you get through that change, and into winter, these threads tend to go away.
Then again - it may just be my imagination.
StMarcos
Well-Known Member
If adding alph/beta amylase dropped your FG, then you were not getting complete conversion in the mash, which is something to remedy. Perhaps the amylase enzyme also contained a-galactosidase (sp?). I've put some pure AG in a mash/ferment and it dropped to zero in a week. BTW, AG works best at lower pH and temp than alpha amylase, so you can add it to the ferment....
JVD_X
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No... I agree. I have traced my issue to a clogged RIMS system that was causing the temp to drop into the low 140's (or even lower I suppose) and burn out my element.
My concern wasn't my process per se... issues will arise... the concern was "what do I do now?" Do I do nothing and end up with an overly sweet beer, use beano - which will dry out my beer causing the other problem, or do I use AE (after exhausting all other possibilities to get the ferment going).
MacBruver
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From here: http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.phar...raphs/CPS- (General Monographs- B)/BEANO.html
If you want to stop the beano at a certain point... you could keep a close eye on hydrometer samples, and then heat the beer up above 130f. I highly doubt it would affect the flavor at all, as others have experimented with removing alcohol from beer at temps higher than that without too much detriment.
If you want to stop the beano at a certain point... you could keep a close eye on hydrometer samples, and then heat the beer up above 130f. I highly doubt it would affect the flavor at all, as others have experimented with removing alcohol from beer at temps higher than that without too much detriment.
gturner6ppc
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Is it possible that your water company just swtiched from regular chlorination to using chloramine? The first warning many people get is when all their aquarium fish die.
I also once had a problem with high copper levels from a wort chiller I had forgotten about having had for a few years. After a small splurge of initial fermentation, subsequent pitches with Cooper's Ale Yeast and Wyeast did nothing. I might as well have been throwing the yeast into a bucket of Chlorox. When I poured out the batch in frustration the inside of the primary was stained green!
JVD_X
Well-Known Member
Is it possible that your water company just swtiched from regular chlorination to using chloramine? The first warning many people get is when all their aquarium fish die.
I also once had a problem with high copper levels from a wort chiller I had forgotten about having had for a few years. After a small splurge of initial fermentation, subsequent pitches with Cooper's Ale Yeast and Wyeast did nothing. I might as well have been throwing the yeast into a bucket of Chlorox. When I poured out the batch in frustration the inside of the primary was stained green!
No, we have been on chloramine for a long time now. I have done several batches since fixing my RIMS, while I prepare my HERMS, that have turned out great. I have also started doing iodine tests which is something I had never done before, just assuming that my conversion was done after an hour.
bigin31
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Alpha amylase is not a sugar. Its an enzyme.
gturner6ppc
Well-Known Member
So it's not your water, your barley, or your yeast. Gotta be the hops!
Time to try sacrificing a chicken in a voodoo ceremony or perhaps singing incantations to Ninkasi.
Have you made any 'improvements' to your procedure over the last three batches?
gturner6ppc
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I think he meant that adding alpha-amylase would liberate more fermentable sugars from complex non-fermentable sugars and carbohydrates, so in effect it is releasing more sugar into the brew.
JVD_X
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So it's not your water, your barley, or your yeast. Gotta be the hops!
Time to try sacrificing a chicken in a voodoo ceremony or perhaps singing incantations to Ninkasi.
Have you made any 'improvements' to your procedure over the last three batches?
no... it was my conversion temp... it was low.
Bopper
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Thread from the dead!
I have a noobish question. It is my understanding that a mash works because the heat activates AE present in the grain and the AE converts starch to glucose, maltose, etc. How does AE work when added to the fermenter? Doesn't AE require heat to convert the unfermentables?
I have a noobish question. It is my understanding that a mash works because the heat activates AE present in the grain and the AE converts starch to glucose, maltose, etc. How does AE work when added to the fermenter? Doesn't AE require heat to convert the unfermentables?
