effects of replacing 2-row with less expensive adjuncts?

Hey all,

A question for you experts out there! One of the things I like to pay attention to as I brew is cost per batch -- mostly as a matter of curiousity (since quality is the major concern to me), but also as a matter of economy. If I can make a batch that is "equivalent" on the most significant measures as to quality but lower in cost, that's something I like to keep in mind.

Along those lines, what is the effect of replacing a portion of one's malt with adjuncts? Say, I'm making a big beer (like an imperial stout), and the recipe calls for 15+ lbs of 2-row pale, plus the adjuncts that typically go in to the impy to get the whole to somewhere around 18 lbs. What percentage of the pale malt could I reasonably replace with some less expensive unmalted grain? As the percentage went up, what factors would I need to counterbalance? Obviously, one of them would be that the unmalted grains contribute no amylase; I'm assuming that is already accounted for by setting a lowerbound on the replacement. (Between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the total grain bill must be malt.)

Any thoughts? Experiences doing this?

-- Matt

Which adjuncts are less expensive than 2-row?

The "story" that BMC historically used corn/rice to save money just isn't true....

At only 50 cents a pound in bulk I can't imagine finding a cheaper alternative.

Hmmn...I've never seen that low a price. Then, I've always dealt with local homebrew shops. The prices in places where I've lived tends to run about 1.60 / lb!

Adjunct beers cost me a little more to brew since I buy flaked maize. Pretty hard to beat the bulk prices on 2 row brewers malt. 6 row isn't all that much cheaper. But it all depends on your location, access, ect.

sugar @ $3-5/lbs and .46 ppg 100% eff = $0.0363/ppg
2-row-milled @ $1.15/lb and .37 ppg 75% eff = $0.0411/ppg

(prices are what i pay here)

using 15lb grain for 5 lb batch = 1.083 beer costing 17.25
using sugar to make same fermented stuff = 9.02lbs suger costing 14.97

Demon said:

At only 50 cents a pound in bulk I can't imagine finding a cheaper alternative.

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Not everyone has access to that price. Our LHBS charges $1.19/lb. by the bag for 2row.

Demon said:

At only 50 cents a pound in bulk I can't imagine finding a cheaper alternative.

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what is your source? I think you gotta share that one. I thought 50 pound sack was about the cheapest.

Clem

Sorry, probably shouldn't have posted that price since its not what you'd get at the LHBS. Our group buy pricing is as low as $27 per sack. Even at twice that price its still going to be difficult to find an adjunct to use instead.

I pay 35 bucks (ish) for a bag of 2-row in Tampa. That's with a club 10% discount.

Try to get involved with a group buy. I thought I saw one where the folks in the burgh were trying to do one. It really makes a BIG difference. I just participated in a group buy in the Syracuse area where I picked up a 55 pound sack of 2row, a sack of Maris Otter, 1/2 sack Pils and 1/3 Munich for under $110 all in. I also found a deal here were rebel brewer was selling some varieties of hops for .79/oz, so I bought a variety of those.

To put this in perspective, I just did a batch of a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (non-IPA but with decent hops) and according to beersmith and my calculator it worked out to under 0.022/oz. That's $0.27 per 12 oz beer.

(By the way, born and raised in Pittsburgh.)

I also ordered a sack of 2-row from my LHBS as they were doing a special on sack orders for $35.

over here in portland, i can grab a 50lb bag for $29 bucks

Here's the thread on the last Pittsburgh group buy. Doing a quick read it looks like the last group order was in March, so they are due.

If things don't work out, you can chat with me and I might be able to bring enough for a couple of batches to Pittsburgh on my next visit. (I would sell them to you at my cost...plus one of your home brews .) But that most likely won't happen until around Christmas.

Some of us can't get malt under $1 a pound. (A group of us here are trying to get a near by brewery to let us piggyback a group buy but it's not happened yet.)

I bought 27 pound of raw wheat for $12. I lightly toast it and use about 10% in many beer styles. It comes out something like victory malt. I've cereal mashed it up to 50% for some wheat beers.

I like to use adjuncts. Popcorn, polenta, cornmeal, rye, and others. Most cost less than 2-row. They take more work but I don't really count my time as a cost.

Malticulous: Interesting! What effects do you see as you replace the malt with them?

Rivenin: That's inexpensive, indeed! Where do you buy them from? I'm actually living in Spokane, now. Just forgot to update my location.

I'm drinking one of these now. The pale chocolate and toasted wheat are up front in the flavor with the dark crystal in the background.
http://hopville.com/recipe/780271/specialty-beer-recipes/dark-wheat

Wheat really dosen't have much flavor and unmalted it has even less. I say 10-20% will have little effect on the flavor of the beer. Corn and rice may need to be over 15% before I'd really notice it.

i pay $30-35/50 lb bag for 2 row. as far as replacing it with an adjunct, not a good idea. add a lot of table sugar, you may get the same abv, but it tastes cidery, and so nasty it's only fit to spit out

Sorry this is off topic but hey, PassedPawn, I'm in Brandon and am thinking of getting a mill if I can get grain on the cheap. Where are you getting it at ~$38 a bag (without the discount)?

If you are in PA you should contact Country Malt Group and see if you can get a bag from them, or maybe working with a local homebrew club and doing a bulk buy. $1.69/lb is very pricey for 2-row, especially if you are buying 50-lb bags.

MattTim, I recently made an American wheat style with 15% wheat berries and 8% corn grits. I did a cereal mash with 6-row to convert it, then added to the main mash.

I got a pronounced wheaty grainy flavor. I used my well water which has a lot of alkalinity so I also added some acidulated malt to balance the pH. The acid malt balanced the wheaty/grainy flavor nicely. The high protein content and high carbonation (to be true to style) gave the beer a fluffy texture with tiny bubbles and a rocky, very persistent head. It's definitely an assertive wheaty flavor. My homebrew club voted it #1 last month.

The wheat berries were a pain to crush!! I used a Corona mill to finely crish them, and it's a bit of work!!

IMO it's a great way to add some character to the malt bill for a full flavored beer.

I have a source to buy malt very cheap but I still use unmalted adjuncts from time to time just for fun!

HotbreakHotel, thanks!

Brek81 said:

sugar @ $3-5/lbs and .46 ppg 100% eff = $0.0363/ppg
2-row-milled @ $1.15/lb and .37 ppg 75% eff = $0.0411/ppg

(prices are what i pay here)

using 15lb grain for 5 lb batch = 1.083 beer costing 17.25
using sugar to make same fermented stuff = 9.02lbs suger costing 14.97

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For 1 gallon:
Sugar: $0.60/lb @ 46ppg; $.6/46 = $0.013/point
2-row: $1.15/lb @ (.75*37)=28ppg; $1.15/28 = $0.041/point

For a 1.083 beer, 1 gallon (5 gal):
Sugar: $1.08 ($5.40)
2-row: $3.41 ($17.05)


So, 2-row is about 3X the cost per point, assuming my math is right.

Yesterday I pitched WLP500 into a Belgian Blond made w/ 20% sucrose. We'll see how it turns out. That was my first time since Mr. Beer I've put sugar into perfectly good wort.

Maybe you are already doing this, but it seems you would save more money by washing yeast (especially if you are using liquid yeast). I am looking into doing this and it doesn't seem too hard.

_JP_ said:

For 1 gallon:
Sugar: $0.60/lb @ 46ppg; $.6/46 = $0.013/point
2-row: $1.15/lb @ (.75*37)=28ppg; $1.15/28 = $0.041/point

For a 1.083 beer, 1 gallon (5 gal):
Sugar: $1.08 ($5.40)
2-row: $3.41 ($17.05)


So, 2-row is about 3X the cost per point, assuming my math is right.

Yesterday I pitched WLP500 into a Belgian Blond made w/ 20% sucrose. We'll see how it turns out. That was my first time since Mr. Beer I've put sugar into perfectly good wort.

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haha, ok i suck at math. I was doing it just as a comparison, and figured since i typed it out i would post it

Buying sacks of grain around here for around $40. That equates to about .80 a lb. IIRC.

Going to a group buy method would be even cheaper.

copyright1997 said:

Here's the thread on the last Pittsburgh group buy. Doing a quick read it looks like the last group order was in March, so they are due.

If things don't work out, you can chat with me and I might be able to bring enough for a couple of batches to Pittsburgh on my next visit. (I would sell them to you at my cost...plus one of your home brews .) But that most likely won't happen until around Christmas.

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I second this. I have been waiting for this group buy to kick back up for months. In the meantime I have been paying $50 for 2-row sacks (50 lbs) at the LHBS. I buy lbs of hops ($10-$15/lb) and reuse yeast and just brewed 10 gallons of IPA for less than 40 bucks. Thats like 40 cents a beer.

I am going to stir the pot in that thread again, I would suggest you do the same. Might get the organizers to start thinking about reupping.

Keep in mind that unmalted grains, even unmalted barley, will not produce the same flavor, color or clarity as malted grains. Not saying it's bad, just different. Unmalted grains -- depending on what you are using -- have different levels of conversion so even when they are cheaper per pound they may be more expensive to use in terms of sugar production. Also keep in mind that using table sugar is going to thin out your beer and change the flavor. So the bigger question is whether you are brewing for cost or flavor.

If cost is a factor in your brewing, as others have mentioned, look at group buys, buying in bulk and yeast washing. You may also want to look at brewing the occasional low alcohol beer since those are cheaper to brew.

Brek81 said:

haha, ok i suck at math. I was doing it just as a comparison, and figured since i typed it out i would post it

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Yeah sorry about that. I normally don't go out of my way to check other's math, but I knew sugar had to be way cheaper than malt. I did the calcs real quick and once I had the answer, figured I'd post it too.

The Belgian I'm fermenting right now is table sugar 20% by weight, 25% by sugar content. I don't condone table sugar for boosting ABV, but in some styles it's appropriate.

"Invert" the sugar and there are even more uses for it. Lots (most?) of the ales coming out of England over the past century used invert sugar, especially during war time. [source: old recipes found on http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/]

Malticulous said:

I like to use adjuncts. Popcorn, polenta, cornmeal, rye, and others. Most cost less than 2-row. They take more work but I don't really count my time as a cost.

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I don't think I save much money doing it, but I have started playing around with more and more adjuncts lately as well. I do it more for the fun of trying to re-purpose ingredients for making beer.

November said:

I don't think I save much money doing it, but I have started playing around with more and more adjuncts lately as well. I do it more for the fun of trying to re-purpose ingredients for making beer.

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Sorta where I'm at. When I first started brewing I would turn my nose at using an adjunct like rice or corn. But, thanks to BM's Cream of Three Crops I've changed. I love minute rice. After having one of Flying Dogs IPAs on cask last year that had rice in it, I've been hooked. I've been experimenting with different amounts of minute rice in my IIPA recipe. Not to save money, but for the smoothness I perceive. It's probably in my head, but I love a 9.2% ABV/100+IBU IPA that is bitter, but smooth enough to drink without making you sip it.