Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?

12 hours and Comcast internet is STILL DOWN. (Smurf you Comcrap!)

So borrowing a little 'net from the neighbors. Hey if you dont lock it its fair game isnt it?

Yep, if they're too dumb to password protect it, have at it.

AZ_IPA said:

Yep, if they're too dumb to password protect it, have at it.

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Yep, Time to start downloading porn

Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?

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Of course it is.

Yup fair game. I'd try to add their printer as well and print War and Peace.

My old neighbor's kid came over one day to ask for use of our wireless. I almost just gave it to him since we were cool with his parents and the kid wasn't an ass. Then my spidey sense kicked in and I called his dad to 'see if they were having internet problems too'. He said no.

'Oh, maybe it's just Billy's ipod then.'

'What? That weasel. He's grounded from the internet.'

Sorry kid.

You can justify it to yourself that it's not wrong... But you're stealing bandwidth you didn't pay for. They paid for a certain speed of internet and won't get that because someone else is stealing their internet.


And to those of you who say that it's not wrong or that it's fair game because it's not password protected... Is it okay to break into someone's home if the doors aren't locked? Whether it has a password or not is completely inconsequential in the discussion of whether or not it's morally wrong to do.

I'd probably do the same if in a situation you described but the mooching would still be wrong. Is this a job placement integrity question?

As long as you don't start buying grain with food stamps!

I'd be lying if I said I haven't borrowed unsecured wi-fi briefly (just a few minutes when expecting an important email) on occasion, but mooching long-term off the neighbors to avoid paying for service isn't cool.

Then again, I don't know why anybody wouldn't password protect their network. That's just asking for trouble.

Not if u return it.

If your neighbor has a apple tree in his yard, and the branches extend over the property line to your yard, would you eat the apples on your side of the tree?

Airplanedoc said:

If your neighbor has a apple tree in his yard, and the branches extend over the property line to your yard, would you eat the apples on your side of the tree?

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I'd ask my neighbor first.

No, they're not my apples.

I leave mine unlocked.. easier with all the things I have on it. I have a secondary firewall to protect from intrusion into my system.

I would just say that it would be "rude" to eat up the bandwidth by downloading porn or file sharing..

Airplanedoc said:

If your neighbor has a apple tree in his yard, and the branches extend over the property line to your yard, would you eat the apples on your side of the tree?

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This is a fair analogy in my opinion. Our wireless networks send signals that can't be contained for the most part. If you don't secure it, you're pretty much giving permission for it to be used.

I rarely do it, but have and always will if necessary.

Airplanedoc said:

If your neighbor has a apple tree in his yard, and the branches extend over the property line to your yard, would you eat the apples on your side of the tree?

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It's my apples only if that lazy bum doesn't rake the leaves in the fall.

MC

While I agree that broadcasting an open network is an invitation to use it, I probably wouldn't. Mostly because if the network is open you don't know who else is tapped into that network sniffing around.

I don't even broadcast my SSID.

Per the OP's question, I don't think it's an ethical violation unless you intend on using it forever. Otherwise, no problem. Also, don't think about looking for network shares (shared folders and printers). That would definitely be wrong. I also think you might help the neighbor fix the hole. They probably have no idea.

Airborneguy said:

If you don't secure it, you're pretty much giving permission for it to be used.

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I don't believe that's true in most places from a legal standpoint, let alone using something that is not yours without explicit permission of the owner.

I think that so long as you aren't sucking up serious bandwidth or doing any number of nefarious deeds other than using the internet as normal, I think ethically it is somewhat academic. If it is wrong, ethically, it surely isn't an egregious ethical offense.

Using the appletree example...

Would it be unethical to, without asking, snip a cutting off your friend's spider plant with the intention of potting it and making another spider plant when you get home? My answer would be "yes, but it is a rather forgivable offense..."

This was a recent topic in my current Ethics course (Masters of Cybersecurity). Most of the laws indicate that unless you have the owners permission, it is illegal to knowingly borrow/use/access a wifi connection that is not yours. Here is references to each state law: http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/computer-hacking-and-unauthorized-access-laws.aspx Boy, I'm already in trouble and we haven't even tackled software piracy yet.

Would anyone be interested in an ethics discussion thread? Basically just everyday life things (nothing too heady).

CreamyGoodness said:

Would anyone be interested in an ethics discussion thread? Basically just everyday life things (nothing too heady).

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Bring it on CG!

Airplanedoc said:

If your neighbor has a apple tree in his yard, and the branches extend over the property line to your yard, would you eat the apples on your side of the tree?

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Well i guess this is a fair analogy. I am only "borrowing" a little bandwith as mine is out. So in my mind i am only picking up the apples that have fallen off the tree into my yard.

I am not downloading anything, nor playing on youtube nor snooping in anything. Just a little HBT, and surfing a little. Never done it before, and wont once Comcrap can get my net working again.

drainbamage said:

Then again, I don't know why anybody wouldn't password protect their network. That's just asking for trouble.

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My parents just got a new router and I was walking them through the setup over the phone. The setup wizard (which I imagine most people will use) leaves it unsecured, not even giving you the option to secure it. You have to take care of that separately, afterwards. Not cool.

lustreking said:

My parents just got a new router and I was walking them through the setup over the phone. The setup wizard (which I imagine most people will use) leaves it unsecured, not even giving you the option to secure it. You have to take care of that separately, afterwards. Not cool.

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When my parents (who live in rural OH) finally got broadband, I wouldn't let my Dad get a wi-fi router because I didn't want to deal with phone support. I got it for him for Christmas and pre-configured it so he could plug it in and go - secured with a strong password and without broadcasting his SSID.

I've never heard of anyone being sued for using another's wireless. And I assure you it is not a criminal act in any way, shape or form.

whoaru99 said:

I don't believe that's true in most places from a legal standpoint, let alone using something that is not yours without explicit permission of the owner.

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Meant to quote this in my last post.

CreamyGoodness said:

Would anyone be interested in an ethics discussion thread? Basically just everyday life things (nothing too heady).

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I'd put something like that in the debate forum for sure...

I just put one in general chat. Maybe I need to request it move...

I read the related penal law code for NY, and from what I gather, it is not illegal to simple use wireless. One must access a network to break the law. I'm going to ask my DA friend about this for clarification.

6. "Computer network" means the interconnection of hardwire or
wireless communication lines with a computer through remote terminals,
or a complex consisting of two or more interconnected computers.

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It used to be legal to use tools to sniff the SSID (basically knocking on the door), but that the minute you connected (opened the door) and received an IP address, you were most likely breaking the law.

define "wrong"

Wrong is wrong. You could ask if you could use it, and in return you can teach them how to lock their network down.

tservice said:

Wrong is wrong. You could ask if you could use it, and in return you can teach them how to lock their network down.

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Sure, but you would agree that this is and ethical misdemeanor, not an ethical felony?

As I mentioned before some of us (Especially those with Fios) have the system setup WITH a security password.

We have to unlock it for the world to see.. MOST I know with open networks in my neighborhood do it so others that need it can have it.

tservice said:

in return you can teach them how to lock their network down.

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Not sure i want to teach them how to lock it down. Remember i have Comcast and El Salvador Bell has more steady connections

CDGoin said:

I leave mine unlocked.. easier with all the things I have on it. I have a secondary firewall to protect from intrusion into my system.

I would just say that it would be "rude" to eat up the bandwidth by downloading porn or file sharing..

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It's not the downloading of porn that would bother me. It's the TYPE of porn that scares me.

I wouldn't leave my doors unlocked during the day, when I'm not here, nor would I EVER leave my internet unlocked...

Sorry but I would never take anything that I did not pay for. That is just the way I am.