The 1.020 Curse

s3n8 said:

How are you aerating?

I have had similar issues, and have just tried an o2 system on the latest batch. Hoping to have one finish below 1.016 (my lowest yet).

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I have tried a number of different things, liquid yeast (always with a starter), Dry (Safale 04, 05, Nottinghams), shaking, whisking, aquarium pump and stone, and have always finished about 4 or 5 points high. Temps have been fairly constant in the high 60s to low 70s.

I just checked my Rye IPA (first one shot with o2), OG on the 24th was 1.056, today it is 1.012 and still working. Krausen has nearly disappeared, but if it stops there I will still be thrilled.

Woohoo for o2!

Im sold

Under-pitching my contribute to the lack of attenuation. Check Jamil's pitching calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html.

I just went to rack my BB Altbier into secondary for some dry hopping and when I checked my FG it was at the magic 1.020 level after 8 days! There was very little Krausen and ther were, what looked like, little yeast gobs foating (almost looked like flaked fish food). Has anyone else had this? My LHBS did not have the BB kit so he checked the recipe online and used ingredients he had in-house to fill the order. I have brewed three other BB kits, all with great success. I have some yeast activater, would that help? What about the Amylaze Enzyme that Shafferpiolet mentioned? Can I add that to the primary still?

By the way, I used Nottingham dry yeast pitched dry at about 75 degrees.

I'll leave it go and check it again in another week.

Blackhawkbrew said:

I just went to rack my BB Altbier into secondary for some dry hopping and when I checked my FG it was at the magic 1.020 level after 8 days! There was very little Krausen and ther were, what looked like, little yeast gobs foating (almost looked like flaked fish food). Has anyone else had this? My LHBS did not have the BB kit so he checked the recipe online and used ingredients he had in-house to fill the order. I have brewed three other BB kits, all with great success. I have some yeast activater, would that help? What about the Amylaze Enzyme that Shafferpiolet mentioned? Can I add that to the primary still?

By the way, I used Nottingham dry yeast pitched dry at about 75 degrees.

I'll leave it go and check it again in another week.

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I think 8 days is a little early to start doing anything. Leave it alone for a while and make sure that it won't take care of itself, then start looking for alternatives. BTW little floating colonies of yeast are quite normal.

I just checked my BB Altbier and the gravity dropped to 1.012! I went ahead and added my extra .5 oz of Vanguard on top in the primary. I stirred gently and tried to submerge the hops a bit, but I didn't want to add to much O2. I was surprised of the minimal amount of krausen compared to my last batch. Should that tell me something or does the amount of krausen depend on the yeast attenuation?

Thanks for all your help!

I've had some success beating this in different ways (this weekend I'll start a batch with all three together as a PM).

1) aeration - I'm using a stone now and an oxygen can (will switch to pump soon, can is too expensive in hind-sight)

2) not putting yeast through a rigorous starter program (now I start days ahead of time and do a pint then a quart additions of starter wort to them and grow them up. I am trying a stirplate to do it more quickly now)

3) switching extract sources. My LHBS store has their own "store brand" which I'm sure is whatever they get in bulk. The LME has good flavor, but I think it may be the culprit as well. I ordered name brand through the mail and will also add late in the boil.

Aeration and yeast startering worked on two of my batches. My last one used the bulk extract again and got stuck, but had no yeast startering (did aerate, though). I'm doing one of those recipes again on Sunday and will try to remember to report back if I beat this. It's all academic for me anyway, though, since I'm basically goofing off making some "drinkin' beers" while I pool funds for a nice AG system.

This has probably been beaten into the ground but I too seem to keep running into 1.020 as well. I just have the gut feeling that theres something about ending at this gravity. Inadvertently mashing to hot or *something* with the mashing.

When I started brewing this fall, my second season (I don't brew in June, July, and August), I, too became a member of the 1.020 club. My first season, I brewed a dozen MW extract kits, all different- ales, porters, wheats, and they all attenuated right down to the specified FG in a week or so (I always use the Wyeast Activator packs). To my surprise, when I started brewing in September with MW kits, two of the first three batches got stuck (or became very slow) around 1.020. The wheat batch fermented out very cleanly in a week, but the batch of porter and a batch of ale both got stuck. I made the mistake of racking the porter anyway, and it's been sitting in the secondary for three weeks, with a bubble maybe every minute, not changing SG much, despite the fact that I agitate the carboy often. The ale I left in the primary for an additional week, and it reached the upper end of the specified FG range (1.014), so I racked it. I've decided that what I've got left in the porter is basically unfermentable, so I'm going to bottle it along with the ale this week.
After reviewing my methods, the one thing I was doing last season that I forgot to start up again was the "drop of olive oil" adjunct to æration. I've started doing that again.
Interesting times....you learn more when things don't go as expected.

Yeah I'm actually suprised this has not come up more but i'm thinking you should try a starter. I have had this problem with a batch and i am planning on doing it again the same way except with a much larger starter. Matter of fact i am using the same Yeast that i just racked from the top. Anyways good luck and i will be following this thread and hope to hear of your future results.

Can anyone explain what the drop of olive oil thing means? I haven't had this problem myself(my first beer is still in primary) but I like to learn what could go wrong so when it does I can fix it(or keep it from happening)

In my extract days I used to have this exact same problem. I will tell you what I did, but it may or may not be appicable to you:

1) I only used liquid yeasts, but as soon as I started MAKING STARTERS my FGs began getting much lower. Better yet, when I pitched a new beer onto the old primary yeast cake, I got even lower FG. NOTE: it is not recommended to make starters with dry yeast, as it could do more harm than good.

2) I started shaking the sh*t out of my carboys.

That's pretty much it, I never aerated with O2 or anything fancy. I found my problem was that I was underpitching yeast. I would suggest trying two packets of yeast, and see if that helps. IMHO, you can never really overpitch.

I just thought of something else, please forgive me if it's been in the thread already...

Have you gotten a new hydrometer and tried that out instead of your current? Also, if you have one or can borrow or buy one, try a refractometer. The paper with the lines on it inside the hydrometer can sometimes slide and give you off readings, particularly if it is shaken hard.

Col224,
it has been discovered that an addition of a very tiny amount of olive oil to the starter when you are growing a yeast starter will serve as an alternative to aerating the wort with similar results.
The process is to sterilize a loop of wire with flame, dip that wire into a puddle of oil you have poured onto a sanitized dish, and then swish the loop through your starter solution, then cap or airlock it and run your starter as normal (with a stir plate or just however you do it).
The olive oil is utilized by the yeast in a way that satisfies what they would get from aeration of the wort before pitching (the actual wort you want for the beer, not the starter aeration).


Also, folks with 1.020, calibrate your thermometers and stir your mashes well, and check in several places to make sure you are getting accurate mash temp readings. Then if your brews show 1.020 again, and your hydrometer is also working well (check in distilled water and compare with additional hydrometer) you can adjust temperatures of your mash carefully and slowly over time.

Your cottonmouth feel could be tannins from the specialty grains, if the steep is too hot. What temp are you steeping your grains at, and for how long?

thanks for the reply nathan.

just a thought, have you been using the same brand/strain of yeast? change your yeast (try a notty) and I'm sure you'll break the 1020 curse. Safale US 05 should get you below 1020 too

Y005 Danstar Nottingham Ale Yeast

The Nottingham strain was selected for its highly flocculent (precipitating) and relatively full attenuation (transforming sugar into alcohol) properties. It produces low concentrations of fruity and estery aromas and has been described as neutral for an ale yeast, allowing the full natural flavor of malt to develop. Good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures, 14°C (57°F), allow this strain to brew lager-style beer. Optimum temp: 57°-70° F

hmmm... i have never heard of this. after 2.5 years of brewing i only had one get stuck around 1.02...i just chalked it up to having done something different than i normally did. it was on a hefe. it still turned out ok. but the carbonation never really built up too high even after conditioning for over 3 months. and the head was none existent after the pour was finished. it also tasted extremely malty for a hef. dunno... i just drank it and went on brewing more beer knowing that i already made that recipe twice before without that happening. i would be interested to know if something i had purchased had caused it to get stuck like that.

I had the same thing with mine. I just bottled my first batch which is a weissbier, it's ending OG was supposed to be between 1.010 - 1.015 mine ended up at 1.020.

I kept checking it for a couple days and it didn't change.

It tasted ok though.. and Im hoping its alright after sitting in the bottles for a few weeks.

with heffy's the most common problem that leads to under-attenuation is temperature. They really need to be at and stay at 75F to get down as low as they advertise.

Keys to attenuation for AG:

1. Proper ph of mash (5.2)
2. Mash temp/time (lower temp and longer mashes equals more fermentables)
3. Aereate wort (oxygen)
4. Pitch proper amount of yeast (do a starter)
5. Control ferm temps (temp swings bad)

These principles have given me consistantly good attenuation and great tasting beer.

Eastside

shafferpilot said:

with heffy's the most common problem that leads to under-attenuation is temperature. They really need to be at and stay at 75F to get down as low as they advertise.

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I got 82% attenuation with 3068 at 62F!

just last night I realized my hydrometer was reading 7 points high. I tested with distilled to confirm, and today went into town, got a new one, and compared. Sure enough, new one is fine.

That explains my 1.024 reading last night on a "finished" pilsner.

Have had this same situation repeatedly... not to say that my brews have been bad, most of them have been quite good actually, but I've brewed about 15 beers with FGs between 1.016 and 1.024. I've tried muntons, safale, wyeast vials and wyeast activators. I've tried normal and late extract additions. I've tried liquid and dry extract. I've tried 2 brands of extract. I've tried two hydrometers. I've tried partial mash. I've tried ice baths and immersion chillers. I've tried fermenting at virtually every temperature between 58 and 78. No luck. The only thing that seemed to affect it some was the amylase extract, which is a last resort.

Things that have been in common:
Electric stove
3-gallon boil
Lack of O2 aeration (aside from pouring between buckets)

I am purchasing a turkey fryer to do even, full boils on this week. Will let you know how it all goes - at this point I'm ready to be done with extract and just go all-grain.

is your extract old? What type is it? I hear Breiss has highest fermentability.
In my case a good starter, all grain, and temperature control works well. A d-rest helps. Also of course testing samples at the right temps, etc.

When you buy the frier, try to get the one that will let you use a converted keg or any large pot (flat top of some sort). You will very likely want to use it for other things in the future and that will make it more versatile.

This is a noob question but how (and Why) do you constantly check your gravity? I haven't been checking it since my first batch, and I just took the OG on the heffe I made on friday 1.050
Do you just throw the Hydrometer in the bucket or what?

I also have the damn 1.020 problem! Out of 7 brews only 2 have made it past 1.020. My arrogant bastard clone is there right now after 30 days and its killing me. My extract is breiss poured from the tank at the LHBS, and I used 1056 wyeast in this one.

On my last extract brew before I vowed to move to AG, I ran into the 1.020 wall as well. This is my second batch ever, so if course I made some mistakes.

6.6 lbs LME
2 lbs DME
1 lb crystal steeped
Some hops
Wyeast smack pack 1056 (no starter, d'oh!)
OG 1.065

I had the same 3 conditions as listed above (Electric stove, 3-gallon boil, Lack of O2 aeration except for some shaking) along with a higher than optimal pitching temperature. (my wort chiller came in the mail today!)

Still tastes damn good, just a tad too sweet and the ABV didn't go as high as I wanted.

I think this thread is mis-named. There is no such thing as a 1.020 curse in brewing. The reasons for this gravity may be.....

• Too many non-fermentable's.
• Not enough viable yeast pitched.
• Fermentation temperature varies too much or is too high.
• Mash temperature too high (all Grain).

But why always around 1.020? MY recipe was an extract recipe from my LHBS, So I'm doubting the too many unfermentables. It was extract so no mash temperature varying, and I live in southern AZ so not temperature change really. I used a fresh smackpack with Mr. Malty sized starter that was going CRAZY when I pitched it. I just dont get it.

I'm guessing that boiling extracts for too long creates too many non-fermentables through carmelization, but who knows. If you really wanted to be scientific you would have to make the same recipe multiple times trying things like a late extract addition, yeast starter, more adequate aeration, etc.

nathan said:

is your extract old? What type is it? I hear Breiss has highest fermentability.
In my case a good starter, all grain, and temperature control works well. A d-rest helps. Also of course testing samples at the right temps, etc.

When you buy the frier, try to get the one that will let you use a converted keg or any large pot (flat top of some sort). You will very likely want to use it for other things in the future and that will make it more versatile.

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I've tried Munton's, Briess, and whatever comes with the Brewer's Best kits. I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the electric stove generating "hot-spots" in the malt and caramelizing some sugars, as amylase enzyme seems to fix it. Has everyone else having this problem been using an electric stove? Any 1.020 people with gas burners?

PS - Thanks for the tip on the fryer!!

FreakinA said:

But why always around 1.020? MY recipe was an extract recipe from my LHBS, So I'm doubting the too many unfermentables. It was extract so no mash temperature varying, and I live in southern AZ so not temperature change really. I used a fresh smackpack with Mr. Malty sized starter that was going CRAZY when I pitched it. I just dont get it.

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If your fermentation temperature is too high that can be a problem too. If you write a log of everything you do them you can compare between brews and find what works. Trying to remember things in your memory is not really reliable. I do think that some extracts are not as fermentable as other brands. This is one advantage of all grain as we have complete control over the mash and can control fermentables/nonfermentables.

All of my all-grains finish right where I want 'em. All of my extracts finish higher than I want them. That answers the whole thing, doesn't it? Has nothing to do with the boil or late extract addition. Fermentation temp can have a big effect, but with yeasts like safale 5 or Nottingham, the difference doesn't happen till you're way out of the temp range. Use a little amylaze (emphasis on the little) or switch to all grain. That's how you fix it.

All-grain is certainly on my task-list, and something I am working toward piece-by-piece. There is, however, a large community of extract brewers who have not had this problem. If you're out there, speak up! Are you using gas stoves?! I'd like to pin this down to a cause.

Thanks,

I Have The Cure!!!!
Simply brew an Imperial Stout It would likely have a FG of >= 1.020, so you'd be all set !!!:rockin:

Seriously, I had a brew that just finished up tonight. I thought it was stuck, so I threw a little nutrient in there, warmed it to 68, gave it a rocking. The next day, it started fermenting again. I dropped to 1.014.

My most recent batch (belgian wit) has been stuck at 1.020 for the past week. It was a mini-mash, though, and I'm figuring the mash temperature was off and produced a few more unfermentables than normal.

lrr81765: The stalled batch was a 2.5 gallon boil on an electric stove, if that helps. I didn't do a late addition as I wasn't all that concerned with the color and there was only 4 lbs of dme in the recipe.

i used to finish 1.020 all the time with extract batches. extract needs much more care than all-grain, it seems. not only does it leave more unfermentables, but it seems the yeast have trouble with it in general.

don't be afraid to rouse that yeast every once in a while! a swirl every other day for the first week can really make a difference! and don't be afraid of oxidation...unless you're shaking the hell out of it, the co2 will protect it

Anbrew said:

NOTE: it is not recommended to make starters with dry yeast, as it could do more harm than good.

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The only warning of starting dry yeast I've seen regards poofing in John Palmer's book:

"Note: Lallemand/Danstar does not recommend proofing after rehydration of their yeast because they have optimized their yeast's nutrional reserves for quick starting in the main wort. Proofing expends some of those reserves."

Is there any specific reason not to start dry yeast?

My version of 1.020 curse - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/second-coming-krausen-93030/

well it looks like i've joined the ranks of this prestigious club with my first brew as well. I'm headed to my lhbs tomorrow to see what they recommend but I'm gonna specifically see about the enzyme that was recommended earlier in this thread or inquire about the beano!

Real brief here's my situation:
-SG was 1.040
-made a starter with dry yeast
-used a gas stove (though suffered boilover twice)
-was in primary for a week at around 55-60
-racked to secondary
-after seeing no change for a week in secondary, moved to slightly warmer area of house where it sits today\
-checked hydrometer in water (was brand new but used tap and not distilled) and seemed to read properly

I find it so odd/ironic that so many people seem to have this issue but i'll update with any success/failure i have in fixing this