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This was all completely hypothetical. I figured that was obvious from my original post. My bad for not making that more clear. The beer in question is merely fiction. A mild thought experiment.

Sorry it took so long to reply, I am in a much different time zone than most of you.


For me, I agree with most of you here that say, "If it's good, it's good. I would buy it." Before moving to Finland, I drank Bud Light or Keystone Light. Now when I go back state side I do not order those unless that is all there is. It is a taste thing for me, after drinking European lagers for over 5 years, a bud light tastes of nothing to me.

The responses to this post were close to what I expected. "I drink what I drink and everyone else can piss off" (my thoughts exactly), and the other opinion, "damn the evil corporations that control the industry". I honestly thought that the latter would be more predominant. So I am glad I did post this.


I have worked for a very large, industry leading, company in the US. Now I am in business school learning to do what I already know how to do, but need a piece of paper to prove it, Damn Finns. Because of this, I look at these things from a different prospective. I have a terrific appreciation for the big three brewers, for Walmart, Monsanto and others of the same ilk. Their business models are what most companies would kill for, whether they admit it or not. They didn't get to where they are today by letting anyone take just a tenth of a precent of market share. For their lead pipe cruelty in their business practices, I have no issues. Ethics are a different issue. I could go into a diatribe on that and Beer Wars, but that is a can of worms I do not wish to open currently. Maybe I will have to buck up and become a full member to enter the debate forum.

Whoa! Nobody said anything before about drinking Keystone. This changes everything.
 
How is it trolling? You will support a view of buying some bandaid tasting crap with an inch of sludge in the bottle over a nice tasting well made beer simply because the one is labeled "craft" while the other is made by a large scale professional brewery? Because if that is so, it should translate to all of your spending decisions, because it's fickle to just apply it to beer. So no General Mills or ConAgra products make it into your grocery cart? All of your food is produced by small local vendors. Not buying something just because it's made by a company who's been bought out by a large corporation is small minded. There are the same people that made it last week making it this week after the buy out, and they have mortgages to pay and kids to feed. Some of you guys are acting like Budweiser/InBev raped your sister, and it's likely not so. It's just BEER for gods sake.

For me, it comes down to what sort of people and business model I want to support. I'm passionate about flavorful beer that is thoughtfully made in smallish batches. I want my money to support people and companies who share that passion. That passion does not extend to groceries. It's fallacious of you to think that my passion for one category of product should extend to an overarching philosophy that dictates all of my purchases.
 
I like to support small and/or local companies as much as possible. So most craft beer I buy is made right here in Michigan.

I do however occasionally buy beer from large multinational companies if its quality. Several years ago AB released a dunkelweizen that was awesome. I bought a couple six packs of it.
 
I don't drink BMC's beers because they are, for the most part, lagers. I drank lagers (mostly Bud) since I was a teen (jeez, twenty+ years..). I just lager-ed myself out. Ales seem to have more depth. If the Dark Side made a great tasting brew, I would drink it. If someone were foolish enough to pay me a bazillion dollars a year to produce "panther piss," meow baby.
 
Is this secret angry person code for 'Excuse me friend, but Michelob is a Bud product'?

Could be, but the fact that Bud and Michelob are both made by AB InBev was part of the point I was trying to make (that AB InBev wasn't all bad).

In any case, the poster's knee-jerk (emphasis on 'jerk') reaction adds nothing to the conversation and serves only to highlight the fact that they are not truly interested in participating in the discussion (at least not interested enough to read and comprehend).

Normally I wouldn't even bother responding to a post like that, but I think it highlights a troubling trend on this board.

I really enjoy HBT and appreciate and benefit greatly from everyone's willingness to comment and share information. Unfortunately, it seems like more and more threads are attracting folks who just want to flame other posters. I expect that type of discourse in some of the rowdier sections, but it seems that it's bled into every thread. Nature of the internets I know, but sad none the less.

Here's my hope for the new year - let's ALL just RDWHAHB. :mug:

Happy New Years!
 
In any case, the poster's knee-jerk (emphasis on 'jerk') reaction adds nothing to the conversation and serves only to highlight the fact that they are not truly interested in participating in the discussion (at least not interested enough to read and comprehend).

Faction #4. See my post #5 in this thread.

I don't think it's so common, but there are certain topics that seem to be fodder for debate. This topic is definitely one of them.

(and happy new year to you!)
 
I wish the evil 3 would make beer I like so the beer I like would be less expensive. Michelob came the closest with their Dunkel Weisse. I drink what tastes good and unfortunately I don't like Pilsners.
 
Faction #4. See my post #5 in this thread.

I don't think it's so common, but there are certain topics that seem to be fodder for debate. This topic is definitely one of them.

(and happy new year to you!)

Yup - I though about how right you were when I first read your post (before things got rolling). Funny how predictable we can be.
 
I'm passionate about flavorful beer that is thoughtfully made in smallish batches.

Budweiser isn't thoughtfully made?

And what does batch size have to do with it, and how is smallish "defined"? The term "craft" had to be coined after microbreweries like Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada outgrew the legal term "micro."
 
Budweiser isn't thoughtfully made?

And what does batch size have to do with it, and how is smallish "defined"? The term "craft" had to be coined after microbreweries like Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada outgrew the legal term "micro."

Budweiser is made by a company who's primary business plan is to make as much money as possible off of people who drink nothing but light lagers. I choose to support companies whose business model is to make most of their money from producing the types of beer I enjoy consuming.

Did I say anything about "craft"? I used the term "smallish" for a reason. I didn't want to narrow it down to a set number of barrels.
 
For me, it comes down to what sort of people and business model I want to support. I'm passionate about flavorful beer that is thoughtfully made in smallish batches. I want my money to support people and companies who share that passion. That passion does not extend to groceries. It's fallacious of you to think that my passion for one category of product should extend to an overarching philosophy that dictates all of my purchases.

Here's the difference between some of us, though!

I DO have my "passion for one category of product extend to an overarching philosophy that dictates all of my purchases". I really do.

I buy local grass-fed beef (and chicken, and lamb, and eggs), do not buy or eat anything out of a package, and don't go to Wal-Mart or B/P gas stations. I don't buy anything produced by InBev, and I grow my own veggies to avoid Monsanto. I don't buy anything (clothing) made out of the US- which is almost impossible I'll have you know! But I do it anyway. I'm upset that my March pump was put together in Mexico, but it was the only choice for me for a pump.

I'm not saying everybody should do what I do- it's MY belief system. It's not about the product produced (even Woolrich clothes are made in China)- it's simply standing by what I think is right.

If someone else has no qualms about drinking mass quantities of InBev products, that's fine for them. And we all know that there are millions and millions of them, since InBev is so successful. It's not about being snobbish about the quality for me, and I don't think that they make bad products. They just aren't something I can purchase.
 
I found Beer Wars on Hulu and watched the first third of it or so. What I saw, and maybe I missed some, was that if anyone was to blame for the 3 getting so big it was the little guys who took the money they offered to close their doors. Had they have loved their business more than making money there'd have been more variety and those 3 would have had less market share.
 
I found Beer Wars on Hulu and watched the first third of it or so. What I saw, and maybe I missed some, was that if anyone was to blame for the 3 getting so big it was the little guys who took the money they offered to close their doors. Had they have loved their business more than making money there'd have been more variety and those 3 would have had less market share.

Wait, you mean the companies that sold to In-bev did so willingly? Reading parts of this thread, you'd think In-bev was akin to Nazi Germany storming through Europe in the 30s.

There, thread officially Godwin'ed. :p
 
Here's the difference between some of us, though!

I DO have my "passion for one category of product extend to an overarching philosophy that dictates all of my purchases". I really do.

I buy local grass-fed beef (and chicken, and lamb, and eggs), do not buy or eat anything out of a package, and don't go to Wal-Mart or B/P gas stations. I don't buy anything produced by InBev, and I grow my own veggies to avoid Monsanto. I don't buy anything (clothing) made out of the US- which is almost impossible I'll have you know! But I do it anyway. I'm upset that my March pump was put together in Mexico, but it was the only choice for me for a pump.

I'm not saying everybody should do what I do- it's MY belief system. It's not about the product produced (even Woolrich clothes are made in China)- it's simply standing by what I think is right.

If someone else has no qualms about drinking mass quantities of InBev products, that's fine for them. And we all know that there are millions and millions of them, since InBev is so successful. It's not about being snobbish about the quality for me, and I don't think that they make bad products. They just aren't something I can purchase.

Well put.

I have nothing against people who apply this line of thinking to all of their purchases. I just think that the "you only buy beer from small companies so you should buy everything from small companies or else you're a hypocrite" argument is ridiculous.
 
All BMC sucks. my pony make enough for a small town. they are evil corporate fiends hell bent on destroying real beer! but I don't care who makes it if it's good. drink what you like. and all the people that bash any beer drinker because they drink what they like or BMC are stupid! what are we talking about again?

I like to cover all my bases.

Perfection.
 
lowtones84 said:
Are most people -really- responding to OP? It's just turned into "Does InBev suck or not" again.

How can they seriously respond to a 'what if' question that is pretty far fetched? I'm amazed people have taken the energy to respond. .

I will presently start a thread titled What if? and begin it thusly:

What if a what if question was being ignored and instead people repeated their opinion for the hundredth time.
 
iambeer said:
What if a what if question was being ignored and instead people repeated their opinion for the hundredth time.

That would be genius. I would be up for that.
 
Just to be fair, I think we should all concede that the Big Boys are very good at what they do. To produce the quantity of beer they do with the consistency they do is truly the pinnacle of brewing ability. What they do is very, very hard, they take it very, very seriously and they do it very, very well.

While we're giving credit where credit is due, the advances that the Big Boys make in pursuing that level of consistency and quality benefit all of us in the knowledge base they create (HomeBrewTalk ain't funding Charlie Bamforth's research).

Large breweries can produce great beer - Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada have clearly demonstrated that, though large is still a relative term as combined they both have less than 1% market share. Hell, even my beloved Genessee still sells more beer than Sierra Nevada and people drink more Smirnoff Ice than Sam Adams. What's up with that!

The real issue is the overall focus of the enterprise. The very nature of the large corporation has a way of diluting the core business of brewing. Once you achieve a certain scale, you need to make decisions that support that scale (and the expectations that come with it).

Once they reach a certain size, Big Breweries necessarily move from the business of making beer to the business of selling beer. Sam Calagione of DogFish Head makes that very clear in his book - "Brewing Up a Business".

One of the reason's that DFH brews are relatively expensive is that they need to be to support DFH's business model. Sam wanted to avoid being a slave to DFH 60/90 Minute so he focused his model on smaller quantities at higher profit margins. DFH 60/90 still pays the bills, but Sam is managing his growth so that he doesn't need to completely shift his business model from 'making beer' to 'selling beer'. In order to keep the focus on 'making beer', he has made the conscious decision to limit DFH's growth to a reasonable rate per year. Do you think that any corporate board or shareholders group would accept a strategy that purposely leaves money on the table? Not for long they wouldn't. Therein lies the difference between AB InBev and a 'Craft' beer brewery.

To further illustrate my point, once a Big Brewer becomes successful the 'Corporate' drive to increase profits year over year becomes the most important thing (way more important than the beer). If the company can add 2% to the bottom line by changing the beer or process (for better or worse), they WILL do it. The profitability of the Beer Company is what matters most, not the beer itself.

Understanding that all businesses need to be profitable to survive and grow, I'm very specifically talking about the negative impact of size. Just like no one can become President without making significant sacrifices, no beer company can go global without changing their strategy. In my opinion, the changes that come with size come at the expense of the beer.

All we need to know about why we prefer small 'craft' breweries to AB InBev, MillerCoors and the like can be found in the example of Carlos Brito.

Carlos Brito is the CEO of AB InBev and a darling of Wall Street. Through acquisitions and a laser-like focus on cost control, Carlos has been able to quadruple AB InBev's stock price since he took over. He is a roaring success by Corporate standards. Unfortunately, he has achieved these goals by sacrificing the quality of the beer.

To cut costs, Brito elected to stop importing brands like Beck's and Bass and started brewing them in the US. As brewers, we all know that regionally sourced water and ingredients play a huge part in the character of a beer. Carlos didn't care about that - he was focused on the cost. Changes in Beck's beer were so noticeable that core Beck drinkers started writing to the company to complain. Carlos didn't care about the beer itself - he crunched the numbers and determined that with the changes, AB InBev could be more profitable even if fewer people were drinking the beer (Bass sales declined by 17% year over year). What mattered was the profit made, not whether or not people were drinking the beer. Scary huh?

To understand how truly damaging the pursuit of profit can be to the quality of beer - read this article in Business Week (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-10-25/the-plot-to-destroy-americas-beer). If this article doesn't bother you, wait until Pepsi starts to suck too.

As I've made painfully clear, I'm no fan of the Big Brewers and am glad to see them cannibalizing themselves. The path they are on goes to a place I never want to go.

If you really care about good beer, make choices that support good beer. If you can read any of this and continue to make the argument that drinking and supporting Bud is the same as drinking and supporting Sierra Nevada or DeSchuttes or New Belgium or your local brew pub - then you really don't understand how the world works and you deserve the weak-arse, second rate, watered down swill the Big Boys traffic in. Just sayin'...
 
If you really care about beer, make choices that support beer. If you can read any of this and continue to make the argument that drinking and supporting Bud is the same as drinking and supporting Sierra Nevada or DeSchuttes or New Belgium or your local brew pub - then you really don't understand how the world works and you deserve the weak-arse, second rate, watered down swill the Big Boys traffic in. Just sayin'...

Beer drinkers aren't victims. If Becks changes, unhappy people can buy something else. There's no monopoly here. I believe that most people who drink Bud, Becks, etc, LOVE IT. If they didn't, they'd buy something else and AB would consider the error of their ways (in fact, this is happening right now). With the glut of regional microbrews, there are choices.

Remember New Coke?
 
Beer drinkers aren't victims. If Becks changes, unhappy people can buy something else. There's no monopoly here. I believe that most people who drink Bud, Becks, etc, LOVE IT. If they didn't, they'd buy something else and AB would consider the error of their ways (in fact, this is happening right now). With the glut of regional microbrews, there are choices.

Remember New Coke?

Agreed, but would you rather support a brewery that thinks "How bad can I make it and still have people drink it" or a brewery that thinks "How good can I make it so that people will want to drink it"?

Sometimes the choices we make for the sake of habit or convenience erode our quality of life so slowly we don't notice (like the proverbial frog in a boil kettle). I love my iPod and having access to 10,000 plus digital songs at all times, but if you've ever listened to digital music on hi-end headphones you realize how flat the music has become. I'm not going back to carrying a boom box on my shoulder, but I recognize that convenience has a cost.

And for what it's worth, I actually liked New Coke (because it was engineered to taste more like Pepsi, my preferred soda).

BTW - love your signature tag.
 
Im not sure what is on or off topic anymore so I am just going to put it out there. The reasons people purchase one product over another are many, but I think they can be simplified.

They like the price, or quantity/volume for that price

They like the advertising. They are aware of the product in a sea of similar products.

They are already familiar with the product and see no reason to change.

They have tried/used the product in the past, and found it superior to other like products they have tried.

Pulling any one of those levers can result in increased (or decreased) sales. If my Pork Slap is $0.50 more a can I will buy it over a same-sized becks or pbr because I have tried it and have preferred it.

If Johnny Awesome's Never-Before-Seen Farm Ale is $0.50 less I will give it a go because why not at that price? Or if Johnny Awesome has an ad campaign endorsed by the Japanese Women's Olympic Curling Team. But I'm not going to keep drinking Johnny Awesome if I like it less than Pork Slap once I try it.

I dont really think buying a "craft" brew over Inbev if you actually dont like the beer as much is folly, and doesnt really help anyone.

By the way, if Sam Adams ups its workforce to eleventy-skillion and pays them a prevailing wage with decent benefits because the new Sweet Jesus Juniper Bock blew everyone's minds and sales went through the roof... isnt that a good thing to be encouraged?
 
I didn't read the whole thread...but anyone aware that Budweiser made test batches of IPA @ 6.0 abv with Cascade and Columbus several years ago, then decided to abandon the project. As mitch steele says, it could have changed the whole craft beer market.

I don't generally 'boycot' a brand unless they use unfair business practices or have political ties that I do not support. ie. I did a temporary boycott of NINKASI when they tried to help close the Sand Dunes to ATV riding. To me a political position that was controversial and had nothing to do with their industry.

As for the big brands, they haven't aggravated me badly enough to boycott. If they can produce a good product at a good price I will buy it.
 
I dont generally by BMC but on occasion,and especially if offered,Im not going to turn down a beer-unless I hate it. I often skip beer in resturants if they dont have anything other than BMC.
Just like food,I have my own ideals why and why not I will buy certain brands of food. Its really amazing what kind of crap companies (mostly talking food here) will do and have done to save a buck-especially with labeling and loopholes. BMC was almost a monopoly(concerts/sports/resturants/about anywhere)-really in the past-its funny how most people are "trained" to drink it too. Now that they are coming out with other things which arnt too bad like Batch19-which is from Coors and a historical pre-prohibition beer. And Im not going to- not try Budweisers new small-craft series just because its BMC. If they are good,then they are good. And if I find a reason I wont buy from them again then I dont have to,there is plenty of other great ones out there- like homebrew:)

Its like food,I have my ways of eating that are designed around my health,yet Im not going to go to my relatives or friends or work and say "Im not eating because your food doesnt meet my standards" - although that would be some good discipline-to never eat something like white sugar/white flour products or most foods with bad arteri-hardening gmo oils.
 
I should have watched the last 2/3 of the movie.

It seems AB has (had?) similar business practices as WalMart.

And their promoting an organic "craft" beer labeled as Green Valley Brewery, but made at the Budweiser plant is a lie. I don't like underhanded stunts. Was that not done to get some of the people who don't agree with their business plans to buy their beer unknowingly?

Often I find restaurants serve either Blue Moon or Sam Adams if you want something other than a typical BMC, and I would choose Blue Moon over Sam as I like it a little better, but on principal I'll have the Sam from now on.

I've boycotted French stuff in the past, and wanted to boycott made in China as well, but it's nearly a vertical climb. At least here I have more ability, and will do so.
 
I think that the craft brew/home brew movement is about more than creating/accessing great tasting beer. While the quality of the beer is uber important, I think folks who pursue craft beer and brew home beer are also making a statement.

Craft beer lovers are making a statement that they will support small, creative, dedicated brewers who value beer in and of itself over large, soulless corporations who value beer only so far as it creates revenue.

Budweiser could put out a great IPA and I still wouldn't buy it for the same reason I don't shop at Walmart even though I could save some money - the principal is more important than the product.

Left to their own devices, Budweiser would make panther piss if that's what they could sell the most of. I can't support that- you shouldn't either.

I don't think that's snobby, I think it's sensible to support those things that make our lives better and reject those things that don't.

That being said, while I won't drink a Bud product even with a gun to my head, I have had some of the Michelob specialty beers and they weren't half bad.

60% of the time it works everytime
 
Beer drinkers aren't victims. If Becks changes, unhappy people can buy something else. There's no monopoly here. I believe that most people who drink Bud, Becks, etc, LOVE IT. If they didn't, they'd buy something else and AB would consider the error of their ways (in fact, this is happening right now). With the glut of regional microbrews, there are choices.

Remember New Coke?

I've wondered about this for years. Some of the home brewers I talk to, as well as some people here, always seem to say that BMC is ruining the beer market. I don't wholly disagree, but I have to wonder, would there be a big beer market without BMC? Watching my friends and family members, who claim to be beer drinkers, have a taste of anything outside of BMC and turn their noses up at it and give the classic answer, "I don't like bitter beers or I don't like Dark beers." Makes me wonder, if there were no BMC, would these people drink beer at all? I honestly think they'd just switch to mixed drinks.

In my opinion, I think the majority of people that are BMC drinkers, are just that, BMC drinkers. It's not that they don't have any other options, it's what they drink because it's relatively flavorless and it allows them to get their buzz on. Where as the average homebrewer or craft brew drinker, has more of a varied palette. Even if Miller lite was one of the tastiest beers on the planet, I wouldn't soley drink Miller Lite. Seems craft brew people have more of a favorite style, like myself, I love an Amber Ale, but I'm not particular to any one style. I've brewed multiple versions and when buying beer, I usually look for one I haven't tried before or haven't drank in a while. Although very few craft beer drinkers I know, drink only Fat Tire or Sierra Nevada. Same with homebrewers, I don't know a lot of homebrewers, but I don't know any one that only brews one IPA every time.

So yeah, in my long winded way of completely agreeing with your post. I think you hit the nail on the head. I believe that if it wasn't for BMC, there would be a lot less beer drinkers in the US.
 
I never once said their beer sucks! They have some of the "biggest" brands around- from Stella Artois and Beck's, and Hoegaarden to Goose Island.

I swore off AB because of their business practices, just as I boycott Wal-Mart.

I doubt In-Bev and Wal-Mart miss me, but I have to follow what I believe.


But you buy Coors or Miller?

And you shop at Target vs Wal Mart?

That is selective corporate animosity don't you think?

Target does the same thing Wal Mart does.
 
But you buy Coors or Miller?

And you shop at Target vs Wal Mart?

That is selective corporate animosity don't you think?

Target does the same thing Wal Mart does.

I have to ask where in her post you saw anything about buying MillerCoors products or shopping at Target?
 
Hate to complicate, but there was not more than a month ago an hour-long program, Channel 58(?) all about Beer.
Well, it showed AB's experimental folks, and they had about 30 beers, all different colors, ready to pounce. No, they did not solicit my opinion.
My guess is they are waiting to see if a craft brew takes off in the marketplace, then, wham!, it's got a cheaper, 'smoother-tasting' competitor.
There's no accounting for tastes.
Don't worry about their beer, watch their stock.
 
AlCophile said:
Hate to complicate, but there was not more than a month ago an hour-long program, Channel 58(?) all about Beer.
Well, it showed AB's experimental folks, and they had about 30 beers, all different colors, ready to pounce. No, they did not solicit my opinion.
My guess is they are waiting to see if a craft brew takes off in the marketplace, then, wham!, it's got a cheaper, 'smoother-tasting' competitor.
There's no accounting for tastes.
Don't worry about their beer, watch their stock.

Hate to simplify but what are they waiting for? They dont stand a chance. If they make high quality beer under the same brand, one of the products under the same brand will fail. They are not waiting, they instead will buy up and coming brands and likely will have them cut corners to raise profits. When you only care about profit, it shows.
 
I have to ask where in her post you saw anything about buying MillerCoors products or shopping at Target?

You are right, she didnt.

But I wanted to take that excuse away rather quickly.

I work with some libbies who hate Wal Mart but shop at Target. They are homers to Apple and hate Android OS phones... for no other reason than 'everyone else is buying it' when its really still only 33 percent of the market. The hate McDonalds but eat at <insert fast food resteraunt here> ...

I'm just saying what it really is... and that is selective corporate animosity. When at the end of the day, they still shop a big corporate retail stores where the products are from China, still eat at fast food resteraunts that in fact have just as many or more calories per serving AND use ground beef and the same type of industrial farm raised chickens.

But I do apologize in advance to Yooper... as I am assuming she does partake in those mentioned alternatives.
 
I certainly don't fault the big 3 for buying the little guys out. It was the little guys who took the money over brewing anyway. But if you are using your financial clout to weasel out the competition that's a whole nother situation.

Target may be similar to WalMart, but I've not heard stories of them moving into little towns and putting the mom n pop businesses out.
 
I certainly don't fault the big 3 for buying the little guys out. It was the little guys who took the money over brewing anyway. But if you are using your financial clout to weasel out the competition that's a whole nother situation.

Target may be similar to WalMart, but I've not heard stories of them moving into little towns and putting the mom n pop businesses out.

Target IS Wal Mart with a red logo... sheesh!

If anything, people should criticize Target for charging a premium on their products while Wal Mart tries to get you the best deal... for the same Chinese crap :)

Wal Mart is no more evil than Target by the very Super Store definition.

Do I like that corporations have off-shored our once American products? Absolutely not. Am I dissapointed that AB sold the American brewery to InBev? Of course... I remember when AB had a brewery at Busch Gradens. I used to watch the beers getting bottled and smelled the malt and hops brewing in the air. Its sad that it happened.

But it isnt one person or one corporations fault... its that our government has allowed the corporations to offshore... the same congress that will push us over the cliff. The government should be raising tarriffs on imports in each industry until the cost of the import equals the cost to employ and manufacture in the US.

Corporations are just business entities trying to compete in their sectors... when one offshores, the rest in the industry have to offshore or go out of business. It is the government who has allowed this through NAFTA and the WTO.

They need to raise tarrifs and if they get thrown out of the WTO then so be it!
 
"But it isnt one person or one corporations fault... its that our government has allowed the corporations to offshore... the same congress that will push us over the cliff. The government should be raising tarriffs on imports in each industry until the cost of the import equals the cost to employ and manufacture in the US.

Corporations are just business entities trying to compete in their sectors... when one offshores, the rest in the industry have to offshore or go out of business. It is the government who has allowed this through NAFTA and the WTO.

They need to raise tarrifs and if they get thrown out of the WTO then so be it!"

Indeed!
 
I wish the evil 3 would make beer I like so the beer I like would be less expensive. Michelob came the closest with their Dunkel Weisse. I drink what tastes good and unfortunately I don't like Pilsners.

Have you had a good pilsner? The BMC lagers are NOT examples of pilsners.
 
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