how to lower water pH

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minduim

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Hi,

I've been reading about ideal water pH and I'm worried that my water is too alkaline (pH 7.8). I don't have the chemicals to modify this, nor the desired to add chemicals to it. Back in the old days when brewers didn't have all this knowledge about water chemistry they were able to make good beer anyway, so I guess it's also doable nowdays.

Alright, so the question is: is it possible to achieve the ideal pH level (5.2~5.3) using only a long (how long?) acid rest?

I don't care if its better to make only one type of beer that is right for my water profile as long as it is good beer.

water profile: (all in mg/L)
barium bicarbonate 0,09
estroncium bicarbonate 0,02
calcium bicarbonate 129,67
magnesium bicarbonate 73,11
potassium bicarbonate 1,2
sodium bicarbonate 2,75
sodium nitrate 0,96
sodium chloride 0,51
aluminum oxide 0,04
silicium oxide 10,82

Sorry if the chemical names are mispelled, the water profile is in portuguese :) I wish I had more informations on the water chemistry but the guys who sell it wont answear my calls. too bad.
 
You can do an acid rest but, I am just not familiar with how to apply this to target a pH. I am thinking that it would be a separate mash that is titrated to the main mash to a target but, maybe it buffers itself.

Lactic Acid is common for brewery use. There is also Citric.

A little goes a long way. I use .75mL in 14 gallons to drop my sparge liquor from 9.2 to 5.2.

Given that the bottle i get from my HBS is 150mL that means I have 200 uses per bottle. I figure given the amount of chemicals already in the water a little more isn't going to hurt (much). Especially considering that most modern breweries use them too.

Besides, the waggling nub at the base of my back isn't growing anymore so maybe the added chemicals are helping.
 
you can solve all your problems by useing two possiable methods. First one is a bit tough and cost about 30 -50 dallors, that is buy a faucet mount carbon filter minimum of 3 stages, that will lower the PH of your water to near nutral and filter out alot of your free floating ions.

Or you can buy bottled water from your local hardwear store or Walmart (paying about 25-40cents per gallon) in plastic carboys and use the water to brew and if they are suitable the carboys for fermenting. You will need Pete water carboys (number 1 plastic, says on the bottom) or you can transfer into you current fermenter and just keep refilling your carboys with water.

I use a 6 stage carbon filter/acid reducer on my faucet because its the only thing that actully makes my apartment water drinkable (so much iron you could stick a magnet to a puddle on a vynal floor). A 6 stage says it removes 99% of free ions and 98% of other water aditives/contaminants. but it cost me about 90$ and the cartridges are about 40$ a piece and filter up to 100 gallons a piece. So with out having to chemically modify your water (which might not help you brew) try those ways

cheers
 
What about using the Five Star 5.2 buffer. I'm not sure what the limits of the buffer are, but I'm guessing it would pull you mash pH right down to where it needs to be.
 
I'll second on pH5.2. I use it for mashing & sparging. Adding it to the sparge water means a hotter sparge without tannins.
 
While it is good to know the pH of your water, you should be more concerned about your mash pH. It will vary from brew to brew, depending on the grain. Your mash pH will most likely be lower than the pH of your water, and you may be getting into the optimum range. Personally, I've started using the 5.2 Stabilzier, but it sounds like you're not interested in that method.
 
Maybe someone with more experience might be able to comment on the use of acidulated malt for lowering mash pH? That may be an option if the OP is reluctant to add purified or synthesized chemicals to his water.
 
I would go for the "artificial" way (i.e. 5.2 stabilizer and stuff) if I could. However, down here (in Brazil) we don't have specialized shops for homebrewers and as I'm not a chemist I'm afraid of going out buying stuff on my own.

That's why I'm interested on acid rests, even if they take a bit longer ;)
 
I would go for the "artificial" way (i.e. 5.2 stabilizer and stuff) if I could. However, down here (in Brazil) we don't have specialized shops for homebrewers and as I'm not a chemist I'm afraid of going out buying stuff on my own.

That's why I'm interested on acid rests, even if they take a bit longer ;)

I would assume then that you get your ingredients online? You should be able to get 5.2 Stabilizer online as well.

I'm not sure that using it would be considered artificial. It's just a combination of brewing salts that creates a buffer.Though I suppose you could consider it Cheating.:mug:
 
Hi,

I've been reading about ideal water pH and I'm worried that my water is too alkaline (pH 7.8). I don't have the chemicals to modify this, nor the desired to add chemicals to it. Back in the old days when brewers didn't have all this knowledge about water chemistry they were able to make good beer anyway, so I guess it's also doable nowdays.

Alright, so the question is: is it possible to achieve the ideal pH level (5.2~5.3) using only a long (how long?) acid rest?

I don't care if its better to make only one type of beer that is right for my water profile as long as it is good beer.

water profile: (all in mg/L)
barium bicarbonate 0,09
estroncium bicarbonate 0,02
calcium bicarbonate 129,67
magnesium bicarbonate 73,11
potassium bicarbonate 1,2
sodium bicarbonate 2,75
sodium nitrate 0,96
sodium chloride 0,51
aluminum oxide 0,04
silicium oxide 10,82

Sorry if the chemical names are mispelled, the water profile is in portuguese :) I wish I had more informations on the water chemistry but the guys who sell it wont answear my calls. too bad.

I know the Germans used to use a malt called acid malt to bring down the PH. You can do an acid rest. Type in acid rest in the search feature. Also you can use a lot of dark roasted malt in your beers. Ireland has hard water so they brew a lot of stouts. Stouts using dark malts brings down the PH.
 
As YankeeHillBrewer pointed out above it is the pH of the mash that is crucial NOT the pH of your water. Most potable water will work for mashing unless you are trying to brew very pale lagers. Darker grains acidify the mash. I have moderately hard water and can mash a pilsner with only a small addition of 5.2, anything else I don't add anything to it.

Have you tried to mash and run into a problem? If not just make a batch of beer and check the pH of your mash - or just see what your conversion is and if it is OK RDWHAHB.

John Palmer's How to Brew online chapter has a section on water chemistry and its effects on brewing if you want more information. How to Brew - By John Palmer - Reading a Water Report

GT
 
Your mash pH, which is what you really care about, depends on a combination of your brewing water, the grains you brew with, and any additives you put in the water to adjust it. John Palmer's How to Brew covers the topic in detail.

In general, mashes with lots of roasted malts have a more acid mash than those with out. Hence, you can probably brew stout and porter with your water with no treatment at all. However, for a brown ale, you would need a little treatment, and for a pale ale, you would need more.

5.2 pH stabilizer is awesome. If you are brewing very light beer, you may want a little lactic acid (1/2 tablespoon) in addition to the pH stabilizer.

Also, your local organic food store, New Frontiers (on Butler), sells ozmotically purified water for $0.39 per gallon. This is probably the way to go for brewing styles like Pilsener that traditionally use soft water.

P.S. I'm new to Flag: thanks for the post that tells me what my new brew water pH will be!
 
Back in the old days when brewers didn't have all this knowledge about water chemistry they were able to make good beer anyway, so I guess it's also doable nowdays.

I think they used darker malts? That is why different beers were made at different locations. As pointed out, your PH will drop when you mash. It might be interesting for you to try a light and dark beer under the circumstances.
 
First off - 7.8 isn't all that high in pH. My tap water at home is 8.9

Second, as someone else mentioned, the pH of your water matters very little. Measure it with some pH test strips in your mash. The type of grist you're using will affect the mash pH more than anything, roasted malts or acid malt will tend to reduce your mash pH.

Third, you can pre-boil your water to knock out some minerals and reduce pH.

Take a look here for TH's spreadsheet on water profiles:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-adjustment-spreadsheet-135095/#post1524729

Good luck.
 
As YankeeHillBrewer pointed out above it is the pH of the mash that is crucial NOT the pH of your water. GT
If you are sparging with water in the range of 8-9 like I have been, you are making a mistake. You will get tannin extraction. I couldn't figure out how I was getting astringincy, since I never sparge with anything warmer than 178°. It was my sparge water. The mash benefits from the acidity of the grain, but that is largely gone by sparge time.
 
If you are sparging with water in the range of 8-9 like I have been, you are making a mistake. You will get tannin extraction. I couldn't figure out how I was getting astringincy, since I never sparge with anything warmer than 178°. It was my sparge water. The mash benefits from the acidity of the grain, but that is largely gone by sparge time.

Isn't it the alkalinity that is more important here? My water has pH of 9.1 but very low total alkalinity of 15 (per Ward labs). I don't treat the sparge water and don't have problems with the sparge being too high in pH.

edit - wow, just realized you resurrected a zombie!
 
Isn't it the alkalinity that is more important here? My water has pH of 9.1 but very low total alkalinity of 15 (per Ward labs). I don't treat the sparge water and don't have problems with the sparge being too high in pH.

edit - wow, just realized you resurrected a zombie!

I do that from time to time. My total alkalinity is lower than my pH, but I tested my tap water the other day, and it was 8+. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it was closer to neutral.
 
The pH is not as important as the alkalinity. With almost no alkalinity, it doesn't take much to get your mash pH in range.

I have moderately soft water with moderate alkalinity.I usually have to either dilute with RO, or add a few percent acidulated malt to my mash. Personally I'd skip the 5.2 stabilizer.
 
Anyone with a PH meter will tell you the 5.2 stabilizer does pretty much nothing for your mash PH.
 
I have the same problem on my last batch I added 3 gallons of DI water from Walmart for cheap to my Mash water and 1 gallon to my Sparge water. I also threw a handfull of acid malt to my mash and I hit my Mash pH perfect.
 
The pH is not as important as the alkalinity. With almost no alkalinity, it doesn't take much to get your mash pH in range.

I have moderately soft water with moderate alkalinity.I usually have to either dilute with RO, or add a few percent acidulated malt to my mash. Personally I'd skip the 5.2 stabilizer.

I was under the impression that pH is the measure of acidity/alkalinity, so I don't understand how pH can be different than the alkalinity. You see what I'm saying? I am not a chemist, so be gentle!
I also think the 5.2 stabilizer/buffer is a waste of money. The only brew I used it in was dinged by a couple of judges for having a metallic taste, and I have heard that from other people that use it.
I bought some pH test strips that measure between 4.0 and 7.0, so they are pretty accurate within the range of what we are shooting for. I have never seen any mash pH outside of 5.1 to 5.3. It is the sparge water I'm concerned with.
 
Probably better to peruse the science forum for explanations from folks who know what they are talking about. In my limited understanding, though, it has to do with the bicarbonate ions in solution and the buffering power of the water. Two water sources may have the same starting pH but the carbonate in solution (expressed as "total alkalinity" on the water report) will determine how it reacts when the malt is added. One with low bicarbonate will not buffer much of the acidic effect of the malt and the pH will drop pretty easily. A water source with high bicarbonate levels (more buffering power) will resist this drop in pH.

That may not be the accurate way to explain it. At any rate, I listened to the brewstrong podcasts on water a while back and my notes say don't worry about treating sparge water especially if you have low alkalinity - that must have been a comment from John Palmer. I have tested the runoff before just to see and it's been fine.
 
I know the Germans used to use a malt called acid malt to bring down the PH. You can do an acid rest. Type in acid rest in the search feature. Also you can use a lot of dark roasted malt in your beers. Ireland has hard water so they brew a lot of stouts. Stouts using dark malts brings down the PH.

I am all for the acid malt! I adjust my buffering capacity with salts needed for my water; gypsum, calcium chloride, and sodium chloride and then i toss in acid malt if I am not using many dark malts. Last batch I used 1.5# for 9.25 gallons just as an example but this can range. I put in .5# at a time, wait 10 minutes and take a reading.
 
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