5.2 pH Stabilizer

Just wondering what sort of beneficial results people have seen from using this.

I have talked to many homebrewers around my area to see if they use it and it seems most do not. I am trying to hiy a better efficiency and get a better tasting beer. I have heard that using 5.2 stabilizer helps reduce tannin extraction and gives a better flavor in beers.

What are people's experiences? Is it necessary? Has it helped? Would you die without it?

Just trying to poll the forums and get an idea of whether or not my brews could benefit from using it.

I don't use it but I had my water tested and I have 6.5 ph well water so my mash already is in the 5.5 ph range.

If my water was alkaline I would be using an acid addition in the mash and sparge.

If you have a water report and run the brunwater spreadsheet you will likely be able to just add a bit of lactic acid to the mash and sparge water to get yourself in the low 5's for much less cost.

It is borderline-fraud garbage. It's too bad that it gives the rest of their wonderful products a bad name.

Do a search, you'll find more than you need to know.

There's about ten topics on this very question. I'd suggest looking those up first. Just Google PH stabilizer and home brew talk.

I prefer to use the EZ water calculator spreadsheet along with salts (epsom, CaCl2, etc.) and little amount of lactic acid... At least you end up having control over your water profile...

Search for it in this forum, there's a huge thread dedicated to it... It's some amazing work...

Are there situations in which pH stabilizers are better than salts/acid/acidic malts? Maybe... but I don't know any myself...

The purpose of pH Stabilizer is:

'Helps to buffer your pH in the proper range if it's already in the proper range.'

Contradictory at best. More like borderline fraud. Definitely not worth the cost unless you like salty beers.

Get a water test. Use the appropriate amounts of acid malt, RO/Distilled water, tap water and water finings/salts to achieve your desired result.

Not only did it not work for me, the heavy sodium load it carries made my beers taste off.

So far it seems like they should just stop manufacturing. I picked up a free water test at Home Depot. I am going to send that in tomorrow and hope that the results I get back are usable. It's free sooooo...

Once I have that I will look into tweaking my water chemistry as needed to get an optimal mash. My first batch I got 65-68% efficiency so water may not be a huge issue. That was also without stirring my batch sparge

Crush is almost always the biggest factor in efficiency. pH can certainly play a factor, but it's down the list a ways.

Denny said:

Not only did it not work for me, the heavy sodium load it carries made my beers taste off.

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I can't say it was the heavy sodium load, but each time I've used it (twice), my beers also tasted off.

-a.

Denny said:

Not only did it not work for me, the heavy sodium load it carries made my beers taste off.

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Me too. Mine didn't taste salty, but just weird. I didn't know about water chemistry, and wanted the magic bullet promised by the label. Instead, the beer got worse and the pH wasn't fixed either.

The choices in the poll are bad.

I would have checked "This has no use in brewing and it should be thrown out".

VTrookie said:

So far it seems like they should just stop manufacturing. I picked up a free water test at Home Depot. I am going to send that in tomorrow and hope that the results I get back are usable. It's free sooooo...

Once I have that I will look into tweaking my water chemistry as needed to get an optimal mash. My first batch I got 65-68% efficiency so water may not be a huge issue. That was also without stirring my batch sparge

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I doubt that free test has was you need for brewing. But if so, that'd be great.

You need to know calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, alkalinity, hardness (CaC03), and bicarbonate.

Yooper said:

Me too. Mine didn't taste salty, but just weird. I didn't know about water chemistry, and wanted the magic bullet promised by the label. Instead, the beer got worse and the pH wasn't fixed either.

The choices in the poll are bad.

I would have checked "This has no use in brewing and it should be thrown out".

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Yeah, the sodium won't necessarily make it taste salty. It accentuates the maltiness in a strange way. Here's what Martin Brungard has to say about it....

SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. However, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable mashing range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows little effect on mash pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content can be undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper alkalinity control of mashing and sparging water may produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than with the use of 5.2 Stabilizer.

Yooper said:

The choices in the poll are bad.

I would have checked "This has no use in brewing and it should be thrown out".

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Well I was just trying to get a feel for how many people use it and what their experiences with it have been. I am sure you could make your own poll that is way better.

VTrookie said:

Well I was just trying to get a feel for how many people use it and what their experiences with it have been. I am sure you could make your own poll that is way better.

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Yes, but the only negative choice is "my beer is perfect without it", and my beer sure isn't perfect. That's all I meant.

I really like Five Star, and use many of their products. Unfortunately, the 5.2 buffer not only doesn't work, it can negatively impact the beer besides.

atreid said:

I prefer to use the EZ water calculator spreadsheet along with salts (epsom, CaCl2, etc.) and little amount of lactic acid... At least you end up having control over your water profile...

Search for it in this forum, there's a huge thread dedicated to it... It's some amazing work...

Are there situations in which pH stabilizers are better than salts/acid/acidic malts? Maybe... but I don't know any myself...

Click to expand...

Agreed. I prefer to test a sample, know what I am starting with and make adjustments as needed based on the grain bill.

Plus, once you get the hang of knowing and adjusting your water chemistry, you can develop different water profiles to accentuate different aspects of your beers.

Brewed 15 times so far, 11 of them all-grain. Ajusted my water profile for 12 of them using the spreadsheet...

It's so easy I wouldn't even think of not doing it...

atreid said:

Brewed 15 times so far, 11 of them all-grain. Ajusted my water profile for 12 of them using the spreadsheet...

It's so easy I wouldn't even think of not doing it...

Click to expand...

Any link to the thread? Or is it an external site that the spreadsheet is on?

SFGiantsFan925 said:

Any link to the thread? Or is it an external site that the spreadsheet is on?

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Here: http://www.ezwatercalculator.com

Thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-calculator-3-0-a-261001/

Absolutely great stuff...

atreid said:

Here: http://www.ezwatercalculator.com

Thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-water-calculator-3-0-a-261001/

Absolutely great stuff...

Click to expand...

Thanks very much! Cheers!

SFGiantsFan925 said:

Thanks very much! Cheers!

Click to expand...

I've tried pretty much every water calculator out there and this on has given me the best results by far..

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

In addition it contains a great section of water knowledge to really help you understand what you're doing.

Didn't know this even existed...

Looks impressive...!

I'll check that out...

I know that it gets a lot of attention here already, but I would add that BeerSmith has an interesting approach to water management. It has listings of the water mineral content from several major brewing cities (as well as a several major locations around the US), and allows you to enter the water for your own local aquifer if it isn't there already. It can then calculate the mineral additions needed to replicate the water for, say, Dublin, Ireland, when making a stout. It isn't the best approach, as it relies on the idea of duplicated an existing city's water rather than trying to optimize the water for the particular beer, but it does make matching historical styles quite easy.

Getting back to the original topic, I have used Five Star pH 5.2 Stabilizer in a number of brews, and while I haven't had any off flavors, I can't say it really helped much, either. I had picked it up in hopes of avoiding a lot more detailed work with the water chemistry, but I no longer think it is the magic bullet it is propounded to be. I am especially annoyed about it, because the last time I was buying brewing supplies, the LHBS owner advised me on the matter, claiming that if I was going to use the pH stabilizer anyway, then there was no point in getting the other mineral additives, as they would simply be overwhelmed by the stabilizer. It wasn't until later that it occurred to me that pH wasn't the only reason for adjusting the water chemistry. That is certainly what I will do in the future.

Sort of a pity, too, as Atlanta water is very soft, being primarily rainfall runoff; it is very low in pretty much every sort of mineral, and in fact is (assuming BeerSmith and the local water company are correct) nearly a match for Pilsen water. This means that it should take very easily to just about any sort of mineral additions, without having to bend over backwards to remove or mask anything.