Jamil's Raison D'Saison AG Question

So I have listened to the podcast on the Brewing Network where he goes over the recipe, and even went out and bought Jamil's book. But I am a bit confused as to whether or not I need to have table sugar in my All-Grain version of his Raison D'Saison. The recipe specifies an OG of 1.060 and when I enter the recipe into BeerSmith with just the three grains, I get exactly 1.060 as my estimated OG. The AG notes in the recipe do not speficificly state that I need to have the pound of sugar, but they also do not directly state to omit it. Has anyone else brewed this (AG Version) before and did they add the sugar or not?

I'm sorry nobody answered you, I just came on to look at Saison threads to try my first one. I'd say you would want the sugar in there for sure, because the style if meant to be very very dry. I also don't understand why he says that you mash at 149 for a Bel Golden which has a higher OG but you want as dry as possible and says 146 for this recipe. I'd go 149 with a lb. of Candy or Cane sugar and you should be good. I think you need to make sure you ramp the temperature pretty high towards the end.

Here's where I'm confused on it though. Putting the recipe that he has in his book into beersmith (without the sugar) estimates an OG of 1.060. He recently had an article in the most recent BYO with another Saison recipe which DOES specify to add 1lb of cane sugar, but the grains are all much less and the recipe calls for the same OG. So far, Beersmith has always pretty much hit my OG targets dead on. I guess I can try two small batches, one with sugar, and one without and compare...

Keep in mind that he aims for 6 gallons post-boil, 5.5 gallons of that into the fermenter, and 5 of that in the finished beer. Set up BS for 6 gallons post-boil. I'm guessing you're aiming for 5.

1.060 is on the high side as well....make sure you don't overshoot, but yeah Farmer Ted is right, he always says for a six gallon batch. Don't elevate the OG too high, remember that just as much Alchohol can be generated finishing low as starting high, which is key for this style.

What does he say his efficiency is and what do you have it set at on your BeerSmith?

I think they shoot for 70% most of the time.

I'm not familar with this episode, or the recipe from the book, but I'll speculate. Perhaps the sugar is added to the primary fermenter? This technique is sometimes done with Saisons. The sugar is added in a slurry solution just when primary fermentation starts to slow down. The theory is that yeast eat the simplest sugars first, so you want them to work on the more complex sugars and then feed them simple sugar after they're done with the maltose sugar. This helps to dry the beer out. I've heard on episodes of Brew Strong that it's more advantageous when the sugar percentage is around 20%. I've not tried the technique myself, just thought that might explain why the three grains equate to the recipe's OG.

Has anybody inverted the sugar in the boil by adding a little lemon juice to it. I have since that's the way Belgian candy is made and breaks down the sugar into simple sugars all at one time.

In his notes on the style in the book he states the all-grain brewer should use simple sugar, so I plan to use the same 1 lb of cane sugar called for in the extract recipe in my all-grain recipe. Will follow up with results.