Mike's E-KEGGLE

Hi Everyone, Just wanted to share photos of my latest project. Much of my inspiration came from "The Pol" on his quest to go fully electric.

(all prices canadian dollars unless otherwise noted and do not include tax)

Parts:
- 4500W 240VAC water heater element (home depot) $24ish
- about 6-7m of 10/3 SJOOW cable (2 hot, 1 ground) (Home Depot) $23.88
- Dryer repair cord (Home Depot) $20.89
- Junction box 6x6x4" (Home Depot) $18
- Ring Terminals (Home Depot) $1.58
- Spade Terminals (Home Depot) $1.58
- Marettes (Home Depot) $1.12
- 3/4" Wire Strain Reliefs x 4
- 3/4" stainless conduit threaded L-B (can use pvc and glue socket-thread adapters if needed)
- stainless nut and bolt to fasten ground to keggle
- 1" to 1 1/2" stainless adapter NPS (used to hold attach element)
- 40A SSR (E-Bay) $20USD
- Misc Circuit Components to build 555 PWM timer circuit.

Todo:
- Add Control power switch to control panel
- Add LED to control panel indicating when SSR is active
- EPOXY coupler to heater element connections
- add weldless fitting to keggle for easy draining and cleaning

Notable Tools Used:
- knockout set to put holes in control panel and keggle 3/4" and 1" sets.

Lessons Learned:
- Do not use silicone to "pott" the electrical connections. It seems to need air to cure properly and the middle will stay liquid! I found out the hard way. Use an epoxy or something that does not require air to cure.

Notes:
- I modified the timer circuits found here:
CD's New Electric Wort Boiler
AND The Controller . I didn't think a PID control would be necessary and I found the 555 PWM timer circuit works really well and if you have some soldering skills and a little electronics knowledge it is very easy and cheap to make. I built mine similar to Ron's in the fact that he has controls for TWO SSRS on his controller but interlocks them so that both SSRS cannot be on at the same time, allowing him to run TWO elements (one for HLT and one for kettle) "at the same time" without needing to use a bigger electrical service. I wanted to use my dryer outlet already there so 30A was my limit. At the moment I only have my keggle electrified but soon I will also have my HLT!

I am also not sure if my element will cause scorching yet. It didn't say on the package if it was a low density or not but it looks similar to what other people are using. I don't do many beers over 1.050 so I don't think it will be a problem but if it is I will have to upgrade to one of those fancy RIPP elements.

Pics:

[In a Borat voice]

Very, very, a nice!!! :rockin:


I brew out side under my deck. I've got the 240 outlet right there for a hot tub. I don't have hot tub, so I might have to make better use of it now.

Thanks for posting this!

Just a quick note before anyone asks:

The photos showing the electrical connections to the Heating element in the Keg - I eventually that crappy duct tape will be removed from the grey plastic PVC coupling and it will be slid over the connections and then the whole thing will be filled with epoxy to totally encase (pot) the connections and make them wireproof, similar to what the Pol did in his thread.

Will that plastic junction box hold up to the temperature of the SSR's heatsink?

Nice! Do you have this on a GFI breaker?

perfect, just in time for me to start researching exactly how i want to modify my keggle... mmmm... this is so sexy... is it on a gfi? Safety first.. after all... no glove no love ;0)

evanmars said:

Will that plastic junction box hold up to the temperature of the SSR's heatsink?

Click to expand...

I ran a test last night and the plastic didn't even get soft after 60-70 minutes of boiling water, so it seems that it will work. I will update this thread if I detect a failure.

I did it this way because I didn't want the heatsink inside the enclosure as I didn't think it would get the proper airflow or cooling.

Having the heatsink and SSR entirely outside of the enclosure would have then exposed the line and control sides of the SSR to fingers/water/etc.

I did my SSR in a similar fashion, as did The Pol.

I used an old heatsink from a processor long dead. Was slightly smaller than the SSR so I was able to cut a hole in the box to fit it to the SSR, and still allow some room to bolt the SSR to the box.

conpewter said:

Nice! Do you have this on a GFI breaker?

Click to expand...

Not yet! For now I made sure my ground was a nice and solid connection, so in the event of a heater element failure it will short to ground and pop the breaker.

In my opinion I don't think the need for GFCIs is that high on the keggles provided they are adequately grounded. The only way I can see myself getting a shock from the keggle is if the connections to the element become detached, and I was to bridge that connection while providing a path to ground. All other failures (connector comes loose and touches side of keggle, element casing cracks, connectors short out, etc) should immediately trip the breaker as there will be a direct path to ground. If I am missing something please let me know!

That being said, I do plan to get one in the future.

It's important to also realize that GFCIs will only trip when the circuit is leaking to ground. If you were to get shocked across the two hot conductors the GFCI will not do anything. Also it is important to get a GFCI with a suitable trip level that is designed for human protection and not equipment protection.

I'm interested in the circuitry and such you have there- that is variable power supply for your heating element, correct?

Nice job btw (and love your temp control on your fridge)!

evanmars said:

Will that plastic junction box hold up to the temperature of the SSR's heatsink?

Click to expand...

People kept asking me that too... the heat sink does not get that hot... and, those boxes are HEAVY DUTY, THICK plastic. The plastic doesnt even get warm on mine.


PS I brewed FOR REAL on mine today... amazing. I am glad that I could inspire you.

MoRoToRiUm said:

I'm interested in the circuitry and such you have there- that is variable power supply for your heating element, correct?

Nice job btw (and love your temp control on your fridge)!

Click to expand...

I am using an SSR (solid state relay), which is similar to how a regular relay works except that it is solid state (with no moving parts). What this does is essentially act as a switch to turn off and on the 240V AC to the heater. This switch (SSR) is actuated by a much lower voltage 3-32V DC. In my situation I am using a small battery pack of 4xAA cells (around 5V DC). The small circuit board is telling the SSR to turn on and off very fast (every 0.6 seconds). The dial on the front of the enclosure allows you to select the % of the 0.6 seconds that the element is on.

example:

dial set to full on, heater will be on 0.6s every 0.6s (on 100% of the time)

dial set to about 60%, heater will be on 0.36s every 0.6s (on 60% of the time)

dial set to 0%, heater will be on 0s every 0.6s (on 0% of the time)

What I have just described is called PWM, or pulse width modulation. So even though the heater can be ON or OFF (nowhere in between) since it is turning on and off fast the wort is essentially seeing an average. Just like if I blinked a light on and off fast enough, you would not notice it blinking but rather notice it getting brighter or dimmer depending on the % of the cycle that the light would be "on".

Hope this helps,
Mike

The Pol said:

People kept asking me that too... the heat sink does not get that hot... and, those boxes are HEAVY DUTY, THICK plastic. The plastic doesnt even get warm on mine.


PS I brewed FOR REAL on mine today... amazing. I am glad that I could inspire you.

Click to expand...

The heatsink and SSR combo I got from ebay gets pretty hot - I would say enough that I wouldnt want to hold onto it for more than a second or two, but I am not sure it would be hot enough to burn.. Maybe I will take a temp reading next time I am using my setup and report back. I did get a 40A SSR because I have read that you generally don't want to run these at full current.

I have designed control panels at my work and since most of them are metal, the enclosure itself will dissipate a fair amount of heat witout the need for additional cooling (i.e. fans) but I don't have the calculations for PVC. I am assuming PVC insulates far better than metal does and therefore will not dissipate the heat inside very well so I though I would play it safe and try to get the heatsink outside and still make the control panel finger safe and safe from the odd splashing of liquids.

Spine said:

I am using an SSR (solid state relay), which is similar to how a regular relay works except that it is solid state (with no moving parts). What this does is essentially act as a switch to turn off and on the 240V AC to the heater. This switch (SSR) is actuated by a much lower voltage 3-32V DC. In my situation I am using a small battery pack of 4xAA cells (around 5V DC). The small circuit board is telling the SSR to turn on and off very fast (every 0.6 seconds). The dial on the front of the enclosure allows you to select the % of the 0.6 seconds that the element is on.

example:

dial set to full on, heater will be on 0.6s every 0.6s (on 100% of the time)

dial set to about 60%, heater will be on 0.36s every 0.6s (on 60% of the time)

dial set to 0%, heater will be on 0s every 0.6s (on 0% of the time)

What I have just described is called PWM, or pulse width modulation. So even though the heater can be ON or OFF (nowhere in between) since it is turning on and off fast the wort is essentially seeing an average. Just like if I blinked a light on and off fast enough, you would not notice it blinking but rather notice it getting brighter or dimmer depending on the % of the cycle that the light would be "on".

Hope this helps,
Mike

Click to expand...

Thanks Mike! That makes perfect sense I like the solid state approach rather then digital approach (like audrino board). Not much of a difference, but I'm sure it's better at power cycling the heat stick. Nice job.

MoRoToRiUm said:

Thanks Mike! That makes perfect sense I like the solid state approach rather then digital approach (like audrino board). Not much of a difference, but I'm sure it's better at power cycling the heat stick. Nice job.

Click to expand...

Actually you could easily build one of these circuits with a lower rated SSR (to save some cash but this one would work too), and then wire the output from that into a receptacle and plug your heatstick into that to give you variable heat control for heatsticks!

Yeah I had the parts to build the timer circuit so I just made it. I also have a similar development project (like the arduino, but not USB) and looking back, I could have used this as well but the end result is the same for now. The only disadvantage to doing the solid state is that its harder to change things after the fact. With a microcontroller it would be as easy as downloading a new program. I guess it boils down to if you have the extra 30-40$ for an arduino or not!

Spine said:

The heatsink and SSR combo I got from ebay gets pretty hot - I would say enough that I wouldnt want to hold onto it for more than a second or two, but I am not sure it would be hot enough to burn.. Maybe I will take a temp reading next time I am using my setup and report back. I did get a 40A SSR because I have read that you generally don't want to run these at full current.

I have designed control panels at my work and since most of them are metal, the enclosure itself will dissipate a fair amount of heat witout the need for additional cooling (i.e. fans) but I don't have the calculations for PVC. I am assuming PVC insulates far better than metal does and therefore will not dissipate the heat inside very well so I though I would play it safe and try to get the heatsink outside and still make the control panel finger safe and safe from the odd splashing of liquids.

Click to expand...

Odd, I have a 40A SSR and heat sink and after a 90 minute boil I can easily wrap my hand around the heatsink and it is simply warm to the touch, like holding a cup of coffee.

The Pol said:

Odd, I have a 40A SSR and heat sink and after a 90 minute boil I can easily wrap my hand around the heatsink and it is simply warm to the touch, like holding a cup of coffee.

Click to expand...

My cycle time is around 0.6s, so maybe that is it? I can wrap my hand around mine as well without getting a burn but I wouldn't want to hold it there.

I think I'll be running another experiment tonight and taking actual temp readings

Hrmmm yeah my cycle time is 1s... maybe that makes a difference? Is your heat sink like, really large? Mine is about 3"x4"x6"...

Hrmmm yeah my cycle time is 1s... maybe that makes a difference? Is your heat sink like, really large? Mine is about 2"x4"x4"...

Just tested the e-keggle.

The heat sink on the SSR measures 136dF on the bottom when the system is set to 100% and around 93dF when the system is at 50%

I took these measurements only after about 30 minutes of running at each setpoint to allow for temperature to normalize.

I noticed you used knockouts to put the hole in the side of your keggle for the heating element. How well did it work? I found a reasonable one at Harborfreight, but I did not know if it would work.

We've already tried a step bit, which works great up to 3/4", however, past that point, we are having trouble keeping it cool.

Thanks for your help.

Hrmmm I found a 10ton hydraulic knockout set pretty reasonable... This may be nice for my new build.

The Pol said:

Hrmmm I found a 10ton hydraulic knockout set pretty reasonable... This may be nice for my new build.

Click to expand...

10ton set up would be nice. Do you think this set would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91201

uabericm said:

10ton set up would be nice. Do you think this set would work http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91201

Click to expand...

I dont know... the 10 ton said it was suitable for up to 14 gauge SS or 11 gauge mild steel. I looked at the harbor freight... it is hit or miss over there.

Nice write-up Spine! I'm currently working on this controller and I have a couple of q's:

1) The schematic you refer to runs a 1.5s interval, did you change the capacitor to adjust it to 0.6s?

2) The schematic also mentions a 12V DC source and you're using 5-6V. Did you change something to allow you to half the voltage?

Thanks for you help!

Hey Brewing Clamper,

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been very busy with work lately and haven't been doing any brewing, let alone logging into this board.

Yes you are correct, I did change the capacitors to obtain the 1.5s interval. I don't remember the calculator I used but there are many online calculators that you can use. I have to admit though, I only used this setup for 5-6 brews and then I upgraded my setup to a PLC and commercial grade HMI software (I do this type of stuff at work and get access to surplus equipment for a low cost). What I did was replaced the 555 circuit and used a 24vdc sourcing output card to trigger the SSRS.

Hope this helps you. If you haven't used electric before I am positive you will find it a real treat. No more filling up propane cylinders and I do all my brewing indoors now, year round!

Thanks! Yeah I've been brewing with electric for a while now, but only the big batches since I didn't have a way of dialing down the power. I ended up building it with the 1.5s interval and it works great. I might end up going with a PID eventually so I can also use it for "sud vide" but for now I'm good. Thanks for the help!