Caramel Apple Hard Cider

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Cheesy_Goodness said:
You are a culinary god. I'm pasteurizing my first batch as I type and I gave this idea a shot and...wow. I'm considering how I can work in that flavor in the next batch because it really works.

Hats off to you sir! :mug:

First off, thank you for the compliment, I try :)

Now, I considered how a brewer could jus add the whipped cream vodka to the bottling bucket. How much would be needed and what would the results be?
Assuming there is a 5 gallon batch that fermented out at 7%. That yields 640 oz. At 7%, that is 44.8 oz of alcohol. 5 gallons produces 52 12oz bottles. If you wanted to add a shot ( at 1 1/2 oz) to each 12 oz serving, that is 78 oz. And at 80 proof (40%) that is 31.2 oz. You would get (44.8+31.2) 76 oz of alcohol in (640+78) 718 oz of some real tasty "hard cider", resulting in (718/12) 60 bottles of (76/718) 10.6% ABV.
But heres the real problem!! 78 oz of vodka is 3 fifths of vodka!!! 25.6 oz per fifth, at say $14 each, so with tax, approx $45!!!! Thats crazy.
Maybe the trick is to add 2 more lbs of Dextrose and figure out what extracts will give the flavor of whipped cream??? That all cant add up to more than $10, can it??
 
johnpcook1 said:
First off, thank you for the compliment, I try :)

Now, I considered how a brewer could jus add the whipped cream vodka to the bottling bucket. How much would be needed and what would the results be?
Assuming there is a 5 gallon batch that fermented out at 7%. That yields 640 oz. At 7%, that is 44.8 oz of alcohol. 5 gallons produces 52 12oz bottles. If you wanted to add a shot ( at 1 1/2 oz) to each 12 oz serving, that is 78 oz. And at 80 proof (40%) that is 31.2 oz. You would get (44.8+31.2) 76 oz of alcohol in (640+78 ) 718 oz of some real tasty "hard cider", resulting in (718/12) 60 bottles of (76/718 ) 10.6% ABV.
But heres the real problem!! 78 oz of vodka is 3 fifths of vodka!!! 25.6 oz per fifth, at say $14 each, so with tax, approx $45!!!! Thats crazy.
Maybe the trick is to add 2 more lbs of Dextrose and figure out what extracts will give the flavor of whipped cream??? That all cant add up to more than $10, can it??

Edited for spelling
 
Just read about the whipped vodka idea and had to try it. Delicious sir!! The swmbo even said it was pretty good and she doesn't like any drink that has yeast. Crazy woman.

Definitely need to figure out a way to incorporate that flavor in a batch. It just might be worth the exorbitant cost of the vodka.
 
What if a brewer were to add 1/2 to 1 lb of lactose sugar and 1/2 to 1 tsp of vanilla? Would that be like whipped cream?

For my money, the extra alcohol from all the vodka isn't really necessary (although yee-haw that could be fun haha), so I think you're on the right track there.

I did a quick search and it looks like lactose sugar and it looks like those amounts are correct (at least for milk stouts). But, would you need some more for something like this since the end result is supposed to be fairly strong, or less because there's no boil going on with this recipe?
 
Im thinking I would modify the updated recipe by adding a total of 4 lbs dextrose, adding 1 lb of lactose by putting it in one gallon of apple juice and boiling it for 10 min, and adding 1 tsp of vanilla at bottling.
 
Im thinking I would modify the updated recipe by adding a total of 4 lbs dextrose, adding 1 lb of lactose by putting it in one gallon of apple juice and boiling it for 10 min, and adding 1 tsp of vanilla at bottling.

Not sure what Nottingham's alcohol tolerance is, but I think it's pretty low. You might have to change out the yeast as well.
 
Im thinking I would modify the updated recipe by adding a total of 4 lbs dextrose, adding 1 lb of lactose by putting it in one gallon of apple juice and boiling it for 10 min, and adding 1 tsp of vanilla at bottling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere on here that cider (apple juice) isn't supposed to be boiled.
 
That could be true. I dont know. What if a gallon was jus heated to, say, 190 for 10 min to dissolve the lactose? When Ive added to my stouts, jus pit it in the last 15 min of the boil. We know it was heated (pastuerized) before we bought it. Would a little more hurt??
 
It looks like boiling the juice will create a haze in the finished product. (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/boiling-cider-196925/)
I THINK the big manufacturers heat the juice up extremely fast (to pasteurize) then cool it down. By comparison, even the best stove will take a few minutes to boil, I guess that's where the problem is (prolonged heat).

I've never used lactose so I'm not sure if it's possible but could you just toss it in a jug of apple juice and shake the snot out of it?
 
That could be true. I dont know. What if a gallon was jus heated to, say, 190 for 10 min to dissolve the lactose? When Ive added to my stouts, jus pit it in the last 15 min of the boil. We know it was heated (pastuerized) before we bought it. Would a little more hurt??
I THINK the big manufacturers heat the juice up extremely fast (to pasteurize) then cool it down.
Actually, they Ultra Violet (UV) Flash pasteurize the juice. This is a cold pasteurization method.
 
I'm currently pasteurizing the last of the 5 gallon batch and, so far, I haven't lost any bottles. Phew! I tasted the cider in the PET bottle when I opened it and it was delicious! It was like drinking apple pie, and it had a great apple pie aftertaste. I put the bottle in the fridge and I can't wait to try it cold tonight.
 
For maple flavor without the alcohol just use immitatiom maple extract. I use it to make homemade syrup and it has a great flavor.

For whip cream flavor i think you could use the coffee flavoring syrup that runs about 3-$5 a bottle. That is the only whip cream flavoring i can think of. Dont know how it will effect the cider long term if put in at bottling but it would be worth a shot. I have some to bottle next week so maybe i will try it with the last gal or so.
 
Made a batch up of this about 3 weeks ago. The ferment completed (1.013) after about 10 days.

Dosed it up with the brown sugar, cinnamon extract and AJC as per the updated (about post 45) recipe. This stuff tastes awesome!

I would recommend following the recipe exactly and tasting the results before trying to mess with this recipe.

Thanks for the recipe Mike! I have been informed by SWMBO that this is to remain in stock in our house :)
 
I opened a PET bottle and, while it was carbonated, the liquid itself was flat. Do you let it condition in the bottle for a few weeks like (some?) beer?
 
I'm currently pasteurizing the last of the 5 gallon batch and, so far, I haven't lost any bottles. Phew! I tasted the cider in the PET bottle when I opened it and it was delicious! It was like drinking apple pie, and it had a great apple pie aftertaste. I put the bottle in the fridge and I can't wait to try it cold tonight.

I opened a PET bottle and, while it was carbonated, the liquid itself was flat. Do you let it condition in the bottle for a few weeks like (some?) beer?

Was this the same batch?
 
Yup. I had put the PET bottle in the fridge after first opening it so maybe that's the flat issue. I'm going to open a bottle proper tonight and see.
 
SO I kegged this friday. Took a small sample yesterday and i got about 2 shots worth of syrup that had settled... So a shook the keg profusely tried again and it was clear.. Then today I shook the keg before pouring. I again got about a shot or 2 of syrup then cider..

Has anyone else had any trouble with the syrup not fully mixing into the cider when kegging?
 
OK, I popped a regular bottle open and it's definitely flat. It's delicious, but flat. I probably pasteurized too soon. Live and learn. However, this will definitely get drunk, as I said, it's delicious.

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I just started a 3gal batch of this today. First time brewing anything. I used brown sugar instead of dextrose. Its what i had on hand. Also ill have to skip the cinnamon because my roomate is allergic to it. SG was 1.068 ill let ya guys know how it turns out.

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SO I kegged this friday. Took a small sample yesterday and i got about 2 shots worth of syrup that had settled... So a shook the keg profusely tried again and it was clear.. Then today I shook the keg before pouring. I again got about a shot or 2 of syrup then cider..

Has anyone else had any trouble with the syrup not fully mixing into the cider when kegging?

Kegged mine with no issues. Did you follow the revised recipe on page 42?

I would think that as long as the syrup and cider are relatively warm (not kegging temps) when you add the syrup you shouldn't have any issues.
 
Kegged mine with no issues. Did you follow the revised recipe on page 42?

I would think that as long as the syrup and cider are relatively warm (not kegging temps) when you add the syrup you shouldn't have any issues.


I mixed the syrup and cider at room temp in the keg. Hit it with gas purged it and then shook the hell out of it. After that I put it right into the keezer. I guess more shaking was needed.. Ill just shake the keg a little each day until the weekend to get any residual syrup off the bottom of the keg...
 
So I finished my first batch of this and had an awesome success with it. Everyone who has tried this is in love with it and I have been informed by SWMBO that "we will be keeping a regular supply of this on hand, right?" Who am I to argue with being told to brew... so thanks to Upstate Mike for that!

So I followed the instructions for the modified / updated version of the recipe (find it around post 42ish I believe). The apple juice was store brand (HEB - its a Texas thing ya'll), I chose it by looking at the ingredients list and made sure there was no sorbate or sulfate chems listed. For this apple juice it was water, apple juice from concentrate and citric acid. Works for me!

Poured 5 gallons into my 6.5 gallon carboy (easy because the juice was packaged in 128oz/1 gal containers), following the same basic bottle schedule, mixing in the corn sugar into half full bottles, and poured in the Nottingham yeast dry. No starter or anything special.

Shook the carboy up after the yeast had hydrated, for about 45 seconds. Shook it again about 2 hours later for the same amount of time.

Fermentation was full on within 4 hours of pitching. The fermenter was in a room @ about 70 degrees, though I know from past experience, while the primary ferment is full on the internal temp gets up to about 76ish.

Fermented for about 10 days and the bubbles in the airlock slowed down. Took a reading on day 11 and got 1.015. Checked it the next day and got 1.013.

Made the syrup per the instructions, 2c water, 2c light brown sugar, 1/2 tsp of cinnamon extract (McCormic brand). Heated the water and added the sugar. Brought the water to a boil, and let it boil gently for 5 mins. Turned off the heat and waited a minute and added the extract. There was a little boil off of the extract due to the heat, and I know I lost some of the cinnamon flavor, but it worked out fine in the end.

Put a lid on the pot and let it cool down to slightly warm to the touch.

Got the bottling bucket out (sanitized of course), and put the sugar / cinnamon mixture in the bottom, put the 3 cans of apple juice concentrate (same store brand, same ingredients list) and racked the cider (quietly) on top of it. As a safety measure I made sure to stir the mix and cider after racking to make sure I got a good blend of the two, since I had been reading of people getting separation issues.

Bottled to 22oz bombers and 12 oz shorties. Capped with oxycaps.

I also had bought 2 12oz PET bottles of Coke, drank one and left the other closed. I bottled the cider in the empty one (cleaned out and sanitized of course), right in the middle of my bottling session, in hopes I would get a pretty representative sample of the mix.

I kept both the full bottle of Coke and the Cider filled one with the bottles, and checked it daily. The room was kept between 70 and 75 the entire time. I checked by giving the coke bottle a squeeze and compared it to the cider filled bottle. At those temps the coke bottle had a tiny bit of give in it and I was shooting to match as close as I could. After about 5 days, I felt the bottle in the morning and it was oh so close to the coke bottle in pressure. So made plans to pasteurize that evening.

Pasteurization went pretty smoothly. I did this on my gas stove, in a 3 gallon pot. I filled the pot with water and tested the level for the 22oz bottles. I planned on doing 5 22oz bottles at a time. The pot was a little too small to completely submerge the 22oz bottles, but left the very top / cap exposed to the air. I figured since the fill line would be below the water surface I should be able to ensure the liquid got to the right temp. Removed the bottles, put my floating thermometer into the pot, and cranked the heat up.

Now, I have to tell you, I was very apprehensive of putting carb'ed bottles into hot (190 deg) water. So I made sure to wear long sleeves and put on my eye protection. I also used a silicone oven glove which covers my hand and well past my wrist to put the bottles in and out of the water. I am sure I looked like quite the mad scientist in the process!

Got the water to 192, killed the heat, and started putting bottles into the bath, carefully. Covered the pot with a kitchen towel, just in case something burst I didn't want glass and sweet cider over everything. Also figured it would help keep some of the heat in.

Set the timer for 10 mins and vacated the kitchen - like I said, I was a little apprehensive. 10 mins is up and I checked the thermometer - damn! 156 degrees. I marked these bottles to drink first - just in case one of those little yeasties survived the heat. Eventually I found that for my setup, the right temp was just shy of 200 degrees and 4 22oz bottles (5 12oz bottles - reduced the water level, but they were submerged). This got me to just above 160 every time.

No accidents, no busted bottles, whatsoever. I put the hot bottles directly into the crate / box they come in, after wiping them with a towel to remove the excess water.

So how did it turn out? Well, I can say the pasteurization did change the cider slightly. The flavors definitely seem to be a bit better "melded" than the unpasteurized, and the carbonation is definitely different. The only way I can describe it is the bubbles are a bit bigger in the pasteurized bottles than the not. The unpasteurized bottles seem to be more like champagne bubbles, just a little bigger.

Also, my bottle capper leaves a small ring indention in the center of the bottle cap. When the bottles came out of the hot water bath, that little indention had been forced out. So there is definitely some serious pressure going on in there - definitely deserves the respect I showed it. Also noticed on the 12 oz bottles, which were completely submerged, that in the last 5 minutes they began to leak a very slow stream of CO2 out of the bottles. Nothing near enough to drive off or really affect the carbonation, but something of note for sure. The overall process of pasteurization for 22 x 22oz bottles and about 11 x 12oz bottles was just under 3 hours.

Overall a very satisfying experiment into some techniques in home brewing I had never done before. Sorry for the long post - but I figured it might help someone read a first timers' process, results and experience.
 
I made a batch last week with 5 gallons of Whole Foods 365 Organic pastuerized unfiltered apple juice, vitamin C added. Added 2 lbs Dextrose and 5 tsp DAP and I pitched a jar of 4th generation Nottingham yeast. It had been 9 days since I washed it, so I just poured the water off, and poured the slurry in. At 6 days at 62 degree, I had 3 inches of krausening, a vigourous fermentation and the fridge smelled the best ever (this is my third batch). I used Whole Foods because I could buy each gallon of juice (at $9 a gallon, and got a 1 gallon jug to use later. Very much looking forward to drinkin this :)

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I made a 3 gallon batch of this about 3 weeks ago. I used all apple juice and apple juice concentrate to get me to a SG of 1.066. It fermented down to 1.010.

I plan on kegging this, so I transferred to a carboy,I killed the yeast, added the caramel syrup, a whole vanilla bean and a cinnamon stick. I plan on letting this bulk age until the end of September before kegging. Letting it age for a month with the syrup already in it will hopefully ensure that the syrup fully dissolves. I may add some other spices as well. Can't wait to try this.
 
New to this area. Regular sugar over dextrose? Difference? Don't have bottling bucket, just use filler for wine bottles from carboy. No problem? Also, champaign yeast okay? Difference? Want to start full batch tomorrow.
Thanks
 
I am not the most informed on these subjects but since no one else has responded yet I will do my best.

You can use table sugar (aka cane sugar, aka sucrose) or corn sugar (aka dextrose) but the results will be different. They are both sugar but one is more fermentable than the becuase of the size of the molecule.

A bottling bucket makes everything much easier and you can make one with a spigot from the homebrew store but you can do it with a siphon and something to kink the line so that you don't spill bottle to bottle. I would recommend getting a bottle filler tube (available at the homebrew store) at minimum becuase it has a spring loaded shutoff. You just push the bottle filler to the bottom of the bottle and it starts to fill. Release and it cuts the flow of cider off.

Yes you can use wine yeast but again it will change the flavor based on the type of yeast you use and could result in a dryer cider.
 
I am not the most informed on these subjects but since no one else has responded yet I will do my best.

You can use table sugar (aka cane sugar, aka sucrose) or corn sugar (aka dextrose) but the results will be different. They are both sugar but one is more fermentable than the becuase of the size of the molecule.

A bottling bucket makes everything much easier and you can make one with a spigot from the homebrew store but you can do it with a siphon and something to kink the line so that you don't spill bottle to bottle. I would recommend getting a bottle filler tube (available at the homebrew store) at minimum becuase it has a spring loaded shutoff. You just push the bottle filler to the bottom of the bottle and it starts to fill. Release and it cuts the flow of cider off.

Yes you can use wine yeast but again it will change the flavor based on the type of yeast you use and could result in a dryer cider.

Thanks. With that, went ahead and jumped in. Used 6 Gal Indian Summer AJ and since OG was only 1.035, added an extra 8oz sugar to the other 2 lbs bringing it to 1.056. Also went ahead and used the Red Star Champagne yeast. if it is too dry, I will just add a little more back sweetener. Just have to see where it takes me.
 
Sapper,

that's the fun of this Hobbie making it your own. You can use apple juice concentrate to raise the gravity too.

Dhammers,
You can use fresh squeeze but you will get much more sediment at the bottom and you run the risk of contamination from wild yeast because it's not pasteurized (unless you Pasteurize it).

I did a fresh squeezed cider with champagne yeast and it turn out tasting strong of champagne yeast and had more floaters than I could comfortably drink. I did boil it before I started so that may have had a negative effect on the juice.
 
Has anyone tried this recipe with fresh homemade apple cider? Were the results good?

Personally, never used homemade apple cider. But if you do just add campden tablets or powdered k-meta at the onset to suppress the wild yeast and kill any other "bugs", wait 24 hours, then pitch your yeast. It should turn out just fine. I'm sure some would even say using fresh cider would result in a better end product.
 
Thanks. With that, went ahead and jumped in. Used 6 Gal Indian Summer AJ and since OG was only 1.035, added an extra 8oz sugar to the other 2 lbs bringing it to 1.056. Also went ahead and used the Red Star Champagne yeast. if it is too dry, I will just add a little more back sweetener. Just have to see where it takes me.

I did a 2.5 gallon batch of this and I also used Red Star Champagne yeast. It turned out a little dry for my taste. I ended up backsweetening with 2 cans of FAJC and then another can of regular AJ I had sitting around. Had my wife taste test it and she thought it was sweet enough so I went ahead and bottled.

I'll probably try Nottingham or another ale yeast the next time I make this so that it doesn't bring the FG down so far. I think I was at or just below 1.000 when fermentation was complete.
 
36 hours later and finally saw my first burp. slow start fermenting but then again my basement stays at about 60 deg.
 
I did a 2.5 gallon batch of this and I also used Red Star Champagne yeast. It turned out a little dry for my taste. I ended up backsweetening with 2 cans of FAJC and then another can of regular AJ I had sitting around. Had my wife taste test it and she thought it was sweet enough so I went ahead and bottled.

I'll probably try Nottingham or another ale yeast the next time I make this so that it doesn't bring the FG down so far. I think I was at or just below 1.000 when fermentation was complete.

Are you going for a still cider or sparkling? Cuz if you're going for a still cider, you'll want to throw some campden tabs in there before you bottle or that champagne yeast will go right to work on that backsweetening you just added. Same for a sparkling cider...though instead of campden tabs, you'll need to pasteurize before you get bottle bombs. Just thought I'd mention it since you made no mention of either. If I've missed it or if you already are aware, please forgive me, just trying to help avoid a potentially terrible situation!
 
TexasWine said:
Personally, never used homemade apple cider. But if you do just add campden tablets or powdered k-meta at the onset to suppress the wild yeast and kill any other "bugs", wait 24 hours, then pitch your yeast. It should turn out just fine. I'm sure some would even say using fresh cider would result in a better end product.

What do u mean by "the onset"? Like after I get the cider into the primary before adding yeast? I wait 24 hours for it to kill wild yeast and "bugs", but won't it kill the yeast that I introduce after the 24 hr wait?
 
What do u mean by "the onset"? Like after I get the cider into the primary before adding yeast? I wait 24 hours for it to kill wild yeast and "bugs", but won't it kill the yeast that I introduce after the 24 hr wait?

You got it exactly right. It won't kill the yeast you introduce.
 

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