Help with this recipe/schedule

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

littlebu

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
euclid
I know I'm a noob but have some questions. I want to make this recipe. I only have a 3.5 gallon pot, can I add water to the fermentor to bring to 5 gallons when done? That is what I had to do with my last kit batch. Under my mash what does that mean? Also for the recipe how long do we steep the grains and at what temp? When do we add the extract? I get the hop schedule we steep 1 oz for 60 mins, at 50 we add 1 oz cascades 1 oz coriander seed 10z irish moss and 2oz orange peel, at 55 we add another oz, and at 59 we add the last oz. Is this correct? Sorry for the newbish questions but I just tried my first kit batch and it was awful, way to bitter I think I left them in to long and it sucks waiting 2 months to find out you did something wrong. This time I'm asking questions. Thanks

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 7.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item
3 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min)
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min)
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)
2.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 10.0 min)
2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 6.00 lb
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
55 min Step Add 7.50 qt of water at 164.8 F 153.0 F
 
You don't have a big enough pot to do a mash. You can add water to bring it up to 5 gals. no problem. It's just with a mash you need a minimum amount of water to make it work. I don't think your ready for that. The recipe you posted will require 1.8 gallons of water for the mash, and 3 gallons for sparging. You simple don't have a big enough pot.

Hop additions. I think you understand the hop additions correctly. With the recipe you posted, it works like this. Set your timer for 60 minutes. When the timer says 60 (when you push start) add 1 oz of cascade. When the timer gets down to 10 add 1 oz. When the timer gets down to 5, add 1 oz. When the timer gets down to 1 add 1 oz. When the timer rings take the pot off the burner. Don't keep boiling it after the 60 minutes is up. When you add hops, they stay in the whole time. So your first hop addition will be in for 60 minutes, and your second hop addition will be in for 10, etc. Does that make sense.

You said the kit you tried was too bitter. The recipe you posted may be quite bitter for your tastes, as it has a lot of hops in it. I don't know what your tastes are. The bitterness is kind of middle of the road. If you only drink Miller lite, it will probably seem very bitter, if you only drink IPAs it may seem very mild. Why don't you let us help you pick a kit or recipe that will suite your tastes? What are some commercial beers you like?
 
Agreed... this recipe seems like it would be quite bitter, not sour, but bitter. Sometimes people confuse those sensations. It does sound delicious though. What's the kit/recipe? I love marris otter malt.

Don't be ashamed to stick to more simple kits before jumping into a recipe like this one. Extract kits make perfectly drinkable beer while you learn the ins and outs of the process and upgrade your gear.

I brewed professionally for a while and still make extract brews at home. There is no shame in it what-so-ever.
 
This is a Blue Moon Clone, which I really enjoy Blue Moon. My first kit beer I am pretty sure I simply left the hops in for too long. My directions stunk and I'm pretty sure that is why it ended up being overly bitter, I think I left them in 10mins to long. As for the pot problem I thought that might be a problem. I can probably get a bigger pot.

Beers I like: Most Great lakes, Sam Adams, Blue Moon, Killians Irish Red, Magic Hat

My first batch turned out really, really bitter
 
This is a Blue Moon Clone, which I really enjoy Blue Moon. My first kit beer I am pretty sure I simply left the hops in for too long. My directions stunk and I'm pretty sure that is why it ended up being overly bitter, I think I left them in 10mins to long. As for the pot problem I thought that might be a problem. I can probably get a bigger pot.

Beers I like: Most Great lakes, Sam Adams, Blue Moon, Killians Irish Red, Magic Hat

My first batch turned out really, really bitter

Well, even leaving hops in "10 minutes too long" shouldn't cause any bitterness.

I think 6 pounds of grain is kind of a lot for a partial mash, if your pot is so small, but I'll try to give it a shot and help you out. That recipe looks like it came from Beersmith- is that on your computer? If it is, change the boil volume to "2.5 gallons" to help get the right IBUs. Also, for a partial-mash, your efficiency should be lower, so you probably won't get an OG of 1.060.

Here's my thoughts:
Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 2.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00
3 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 33.33 %
4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 44.44 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 11.11 %

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 11.4 IBU I would change this to .50 ounces or .75 ounce, if you don't want it bitter

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 0.4 IBU
spices and others

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Est Color: 7.2 SRM

Put the grains in a grain bag, and bring 7.5 quarts of water to 165 degrees. Add the grains and stir well, keeping the grains "loose" in the bag to thoroughly soak them. Check the temperature, and keep this mash at 152 degrees for 60 minutes. When finished, lift out the grain bag (put it in a strainer over the pot) and pour 170 degree water over it to get to your boil volume. Add the first cascade hops and bring to a boil. (That's what "first wort hops" are- you add them to the wort before you boil it).

After it gets to a boil, start your timer for 60 minutes, and then add the rest of the hops and spices on schedule. With the 10 minute hops, add the DME. That is called "late extract addition" and works well for such small boils.

If you can get a bigger pot, you can follow the same procedure, but you don't need more than 7.5 quarts for the mash. You can just add more water to the sparge water- the 170 degree water you're pouring over the grains. If you don't have a strainer, you can simply take that grain bag and dunk it in 170 degree water in a separate pot and then combine the liquids. Either way is fine.

Good luck!
 
The excessive bitterness in your first batch may have been the "extract twang" some people notice in their first few partial-boil batches. This seems to be caused by very high concentration extract boiled too vigorously, which can scorch or caramelize some of the sugars. For your next batch try adding half of your extract at the beginning and half about 15 minutes before the end. Make sure you take the pot off the heat and stir really well to avoid scorching or sticking. Also keep your heat in check, make sure you have a nice rolling boil but that the wort isn't trying to jump out of the pot.
 
This is a Blue Moon Clone, which I really enjoy Blue Moon. My first kit beer I am pretty sure I simply left the hops in for too long. My directions stunk and I'm pretty sure that is why it ended up being overly bitter, I think I left them in 10mins to long. As for the pot problem I thought that might be a problem. I can probably get a bigger pot.

Beers I like: Most Great lakes, Sam Adams, Blue Moon, Killians Irish Red, Magic Hat

My first batch turned out really, really bitter

Is the recipe you posted suppose to be a Blue Moon clone? Is this what you made, that is too bitter? Or is this what you want to try next?
Just from looking at your recipe, I can tell you it's not going to taste like a blue moon. Way too bitter for a Blue Moon. The bitterness of your recipe is 32 IBUs. A Blue Moon is more like 14 IBUs.

I've made a pretty good Magic Hat #9 clone. I got the recipe out of the book Clone Brews.
 
The excessive bitterness in your first batch may have been the "extract twang" some people notice in their first few partial-boil batches. This seems to be caused by very high concentration extract boiled too vigorously, which can scorch or caramelize some of the sugars. For your next batch try adding half of your extract at the beginning and half about 15 minutes before the end. Make sure you take the pot off the heat and stir really well to avoid scorching or sticking. Also keep your heat in check, make sure you have a nice rolling boil but that the wort isn't trying to jump out of the pot.


Yes when I did my first batch I added all the extracts at the same time. There was no sticking but I did "boil" not just a rolling boil. It turned out very bitter and sour tasting, almost like something spoiled. It's hard to explain but it's pretty gross.
 
Thanks, I do not have Beersmith, I got the recipe out of the recipe section forum. This is an awesome step by step, I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out.

Well, even leaving hops in "10 minutes too long" shouldn't cause any bitterness.

I think 6 pounds of grain is kind of a lot for a partial mash, if your pot is so small, but I'll try to give it a shot and help you out. That recipe looks like it came from Beersmith- is that on your computer? If it is, change the boil volume to "2.5 gallons" to help get the right IBUs. Also, for a partial-mash, your efficiency should be lower, so you probably won't get an OG of 1.060.

Here's my thoughts:
Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 2.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00
3 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 33.33 %
4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 44.44 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 11.11 %

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 11.4 IBU I would change this to .50 ounces or .75 ounce, if you don't want it bitter

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 0.4 IBU
spices and others

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Est Color: 7.2 SRM

Put the grains in a grain bag, and bring 7.5 quarts of water to 165 degrees. Add the grains and stir well, keeping the grains "loose" in the bag to thoroughly soak them. Check the temperature, and keep this mash at 152 degrees for 60 minutes. When finished, lift out the grain bag (put it in a strainer over the pot) and pour 170 degree water over it to get to your boil volume. Add the first cascade hops and bring to a boil. (That's what "first wort hops" are- you add them to the wort before you boil it).

After it gets to a boil, start your timer for 60 minutes, and then add the rest of the hops and spices on schedule. With the 10 minute hops, add the DME. That is called "late extract addition" and works well for such small boils.

If you can get a bigger pot, you can follow the same procedure, but you don't need more than 7.5 quarts for the mash. You can just add more water to the sparge water- the 170 degree water you're pouring over the grains. If you don't have a strainer, you can simply take that grain bag and dunk it in 170 degree water in a separate pot and then combine the liquids. Either way is fine.

Good luck!
 
Yes when I did my first batch I added all the extracts at the same time. There was no sticking but I did "boil" not just a rolling boil. It turned out very bitter and sour tasting, almost like something spoiled. It's hard to explain but it's pretty gross.

You need a rolling boil when you brew. Not so vigorous that you boil off all of the wort in the pot, but it needs to be vigorously boiling.

You can add the extract with 15 minutes left in the boil, and that helps.

The IBUs in a partial boil are different, depending on how much extract is boiled along with the hops. That's why I suggested adding only .50 ounces of cascade at the beginning.

That recipe isn't really a Blue Moon clone- way too much in the way of hopping. It'll be like an American pale ale, (kinda like Sierra Nevada) but with some orange and coriander. Where did you find the recipe?
 
Put the grains in a grain bag, and bring 7.5 quarts of water to 165 degrees. Add the grains and stir well, keeping the grains "loose" in the bag to thoroughly soak them. Check the temperature, and keep this mash at 152 degrees for 60 minutes. When finished, lift out the grain bag (put it in a strainer over the pot) and pour 170 degree water over it to get to your boil volume. Add the first cascade hops and bring to a boil. (That's what "first wort hops" are- you add them to the wort before you boil it).

After it gets to a boil, start your timer for 60 minutes, and then add the rest of the hops and spices on schedule. With the 10 minute hops, add the DME. That is called "late extract addition" and works well for such small boils.

If you can get a bigger pot, you can follow the same procedure, but you don't need more than 7.5 quarts for the mash. You can just add more water to the sparge water- the 170 degree water you're pouring over the grains. If you don't have a strainer, you can simply take that grain bag and dunk it in 170 degree water in a separate pot and then combine the liquids. Either way is fine.

Good luck!

Ok more questions 7.5 quarts = just under 2 gallons. So I need somewhere around a 4 gallon pot to handle after I add the grains? Also after I add the 170 degree water am I just adding to get it back up to 7.5 quarts then carry on with the hop/spice additions then add the rest of the water into my fermentor? Thanks again, just trying not to screw up another batch.
 
Have you bottled the batch that tastes sour and bitter or are you tasting it out of the fermentor? Cascade is somewhat citrusy. I just did a batch with is somewhat like a Blue Moon, with Cascade and Orange Peel, and out of the fermentor it tasted like grapefruit juice. I'm not worried about it because it's still young. You really need to let it sit in the bottles for at least three weeks to make a judgment.
 
Based on your questions, I don't think your ready for a partial mash. You need to do some reading first. It's too hard to do a quick explanation. Check out this site:

How to Brew - By John Palmer - Brewing Your First All-Grain Beer

It explains about mashing. Note an all grain mash works the same way as a partial mash, it's just a partial mash uses less grain and you make up for it with extract.

I will tell you some critical things if you decide to do a partial mash.
1) Temperature is critical. Too high and you'll destroy the enzymes, too low and you wont get starch conversion.

2) Grains don't get boiled. This will extract tannins from the grains which will produce off flavors in you beer.

3) Sparge = rinse the grains with hot water. If you don't sparge with enough water or well enough your beer will be weaker with a lower abv.
 
Yep it's been bottled for almost 4 weeks. I left it in the fermentor for 4 weeks and in the bottles for 3.5weeks before trying one.

Edit: The previous batch wasn't this recipe, it was a kit I purchased online.

Have you bottled the batch that tastes sour and bitter or are you tasting it out of the fermentor? Cascade is somewhat citrusy. I just did a batch with is somewhat like a Blue Moon, with Cascade and Orange Peel, and out of the fermentor it tasted like grapefruit juice. I'm not worried about it because it's still young. You really need to let it sit in the bottles for at least three weeks to make a judgment.
 
One other solution would be to go down to your LHBS and ask for a malt extract substitute for the Marris Otter. Don't get me wrong I love MO, and use it in all my Burton on Trent style brews, but I'm a fan of starting simple.

I've always viewed partial mashes as a way to get more creative with your recipes without needing the equipment / knowledge to manage conversions in the mash. To back up: The lion's share of your grain bill is for fermentable sugars and a general malt flavor profile, the rest is for specific malt flavor and color. These are the specialty grains and adding them to ME will give you most of the flexibility that all grain brewers have with recipes.

A few other pointers:
Think of sparging like making coffee. You want to rinse the sugars, flavors and color you want out of the grains with out making your boil too weak. Sparge too hot or too long and you'll get tannins and precursors to fusel alcohols.

Hops impart three basic characteristics to beer. Bitterness, flavor, and aroma. (Remember that taste is only sweet, sour, bitter, and salty. Everything else (i.e. flavor) is your nose picking up what's in you mouth)
Bitterness comes from the alpha acids present in the hops, but they have to be isomerized before they take on this characteristic. This is accomplished by boiling them for at least an hour. The flavor/ aroma components are contained in the oils of the hops. The less volatile they are the longer they need to be steeped to be extracted. The more volatile they are the easier it is for them to be removed from both the hops and the beer. Hence the addition of hops at various times during the boil or after fermentation (dry hopping). So if you want the citrus characteristic of Cascades or Chinooks, but don't like high IBU beers, add them at the end of the boil and use a lower alpha acid varietal at the beginning of the biol

edited to add: Oh and it sounds like your first batch is infected.
 
Ok more questions 7.5 quarts = just under 2 gallons. So I need somewhere around a 4 gallon pot to handle after I add the grains? Also after I add the 170 degree water am I just adding to get it back up to 7.5 quarts then carry on with the hop/spice additions then add the rest of the water into my fermentor? Thanks again, just trying not to screw up another batch.

Yes, a bigger pot is better. When you "sparge" (rinse) the grains with the 170 degree water, you can fill your pot up to your boil volume, whatever that is. Don't fill it up so much that it will boil over.
 
Back
Top