Lager question

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MichiganMike

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So I am new to lager and the process of it. I have read several books but I am still fuzzy on the process. Im sure like everything else there are several methods, So below is the process I was planning on using for a recipe I came up with for a dopplebock. I just wanted to see what people thought. Cheers :mug:



White Labs WLP830 is the yeast i want to use. If you need the rest of the recipe i can supply it but I don't think its relevant

Pitch at 50-55º let ferment 7-14 days
Raise the temperature to 68-70º for 2 to 3 days for diacetyl reduction.
move to secondary
drop temperature to near 32º and hold 4-6 weeks
 
For a dopplebock, you may want longer in primary to make sure it's done- do you have a wine thief and hydrometer or some way to test the gravity?

What's your OG target? Are you doing a yeast starter? I recently pitched a 3L starter into my 1.050 Pilsner, and at 2 weeks, it's only down to 1.020- for a high gravity beer like a dopple, you will probably need longer.

Otherwise, your temp schedule works well. I'm a big fan of starting low temp and slowly ramping up to diacetyl rest temp- like this

50 degrees until you hit 60-70% of your anticipated attenuation
52 degrees for 24 hrs
54 for 24 hrs
56 for 24 hrs
58 for 24 hrs
60 for 2-3 days
MAYBE bump it up to 65 for a day of two to make sure you got it all, then cold crash once you are sure you're at your FG

But yours looks great- just give it longer in primary.
 
I think you're right on track. You may need a longer primary, but 2 weeks is likely fine to get to within 5% of your FG (which is perfect for starting your D-rest). I would encourage a slightly longer lager on a Dopple. Plan on 1 week per 0.010 of OG as a general guideline.

Make sure you pitch enough yeast for this though! WLP830 is great but you need to pitch a high count. Use mrmalty.com and make sure you're on the lager tab. Just an FYI - 830 throws off some sulfur smells as it ferments, scared me the first couple times I used it!
 
For a dopplebock, you may want longer in primary to make sure it's done- do you have a wine thief and hydrometer or some way to test the gravity?

What's your OG target? Are you doing a yeast starter? I recently pitched a 3L starter into my 1.050 Pilsner, and at 2 weeks, it's only down to 1.020- for a high gravity beer like a dopple, you will probably need longer.

Otherwise, your temp schedule works well. I'm a big fan of starting low temp and slowly ramping up to diacetyl rest temp- like this

50 degrees until you hit 60-70% of your anticipated attenuation
52 degrees for 24 hrs
54 for 24 hrs
56 for 24 hrs
58 for 24 hrs
60 for 2-3 days
MAYBE bump it up to 65 for a day of two to make sure you got it all, then cold crash once you are sure you're at your FG

But yours looks great- just give it longer in primary.

Thank you very much i will for sure give the primary longer. The OG should be around 1.089 and the FG im shooting for is around 1.017-1.020. I do have a wine thief and hydrometer
 
oh yeah i forgot, yes i ALWAYS do a starter every time
I normally go for about 1L but I will try 2-3 L this time around
 
oh yeah i forgot, yes i ALWAYS do a starter every time
I normally go for about 1L but I will try 2-3 L this time around

If you have a stir plate, I think 3L would still be low for this beer. Lagers need much higher pitch rate than ales, and a big lager like you're planning, needs way more.

I did a quick mrmalty plug in and it says if your yeast is super fresh, you'll need 2 vials and a 3.83L starter on a plate to get to the 600billion cells suggested! Sounds crazy, but I just wanted you to see what's needed for a huge dopple like you have planned. Don't let it scare you away though. Step up the starter a couple times and you'll be fine.
 
oh yeah i forgot, yes i ALWAYS do a starter every time
I normally go for about 1L but I will try 2-3 L this time around

I'm afraid that's not going to get you anywhere close the cell count you need for a 1.089 lager even if you have a stirplate. Using a big lager pitch rate of 2.00, you'll want to hit 5.2 gallons of that gravity lager wort (which must be well-oxygenated) with 840 billion cells. One vial of brand new WLP830 in a 2L stirplate starter only gives you 388 billion. A 3L stirplate starter ups that to just 531 billion. If 3 liters is the biggest starter you can do, 4 vials into that on a stirplate is what you'll need to get you in the ballpark.

For a really big lager like a dopplebock, I'd rather make a 5 gallon batch of dunkel or Munich helles first, harvest the whole cake from that batch and pitch that all into the big beer.
 
BigFloyd, you and I seem to be following each other around today and posting similar advice about 3 minutes before/after each other!

Glad our minds are thinking alike though!

840 billion...mrmalty gave me 604billion (i only did a 5.00 gallon batch though with fresh yeast) must be the difference
 
I can do 4L without a problem. Thank you all for the help. I normally only do 1-2L on ales only, I guess I should have specified. And no 3-4L does not sound crazy. Thanks again
 
You want to pitch pretty low - about 40 °F and then let the temperature climb to about 48 °F for the main fermentation. When it starts to slow gradually reduce temperature (a couple of degrees at most per day) to as close to freezing as you can get it and hold there for a couple of weeks. Then transfer, with plenty of yeast, to lagering vessels for 3 months lagering between freezing and about 38 °F. Be sure to oxygenate well (20 mg/L ?) and pitch lots of yeast.

Someone is going to ask where I got that profile. I've been using it for so long that I don't remember so I went and looked in a couple of books. It is consistent with Kunze and Narziß so I either got it from one of them or someone following them. Makes good beer in any case.
 
I can do 4L without a problem. Thank you all for the help. I normally only do 1-2L on ales only, I guess I should have specified. And no 3-4L does not sound crazy. Thanks again

I've always shied away from doing the really huge (and stepped-up) starters needed to get one vial/smackpack of yeast multiplied enough for a truly good pitch rate in a 5 gallon batch of high gravity lager. That's lots of starter beer to be decanted/dumped after crashing each step 2-3 days (which is needed to get lager yeast to drop out fully). Lots of work too if you want to do it right.

I'd much rather have 5 gallons of lighter gravity (1.045-1.050) lager serve as my "starter" so that I get to enjoy and share it.
 

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