Reinheitsgebot double standard

Question/Discussion...

I just kegged a Black Pomegranate Tea beer on Tuesday and last weekend I brewed a California Kolsch. My wife being the constant antagonist in my life brought up the fact that most of the beers I brew don't follow the reinheitsgebot but I talk bad about breweries that don't and usually won't drink their beer. I told her that as a home brewer I am not selling my beer and like to see what other ingredients have to offer. She said the breweries want the same. (See what I'm up against?) So, my question/discussion topic has to do with commercial breweries following only the reinheitsgebot while home brewers "do their thing" is it a double standard for me?

I like to flip the bird at that silly law.

Yep. But do whatever floats your boat.

By being in the business of making and selling beer, breweries actually have as much if not more interest in branching out and trying new beers and new flavors than the average homebrewer. The point of their existence is to make money and/or good beer. More beer styles = more people enjoying beer made by their brewery = more money and ensuring the continued existence of the brewery.

YMMV

Dumbest law ever.

I get the idea behind it but it severely stunted the growth of style for those under the law.

Who cares about the Reinheitsgebot? The North Carolina legislature never enacted it AFAIK.

Limiting ingredients to water barley and hops (and yeast) is no basis for determining what good beer is. If it ever was, it certainly isn't in the 21st century. I'm assuming that you're using the Reinheitsgebot as a careless shorthand for the macrobrewers who are putting rice into their beer. But their beers aren't lame because they use adjuncts, they're lame because that's how they're designed, because that's what fits their market.

So quit harping on a 600-year-old law from another continent, and start discussing what you really value in beer, which (I presume) is a commitment to quality, innovation, and craftsmanship.

Nightshade said:

Dumbest law ever. I get the idea behind it but it severely stunted the growth of style for those under the law.

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Its basis was more politico-economic than pro-good-beer. As I understand it, it was more about stopping brewers from using wheat people needed for bread than "ensuring good beer". This was the 16th century after all.

I'd have to agree with the Spousal Unit: there's clearly hypocrisy afoot

Perhaps changing the focus from such arcane "laws" as "reinheitsgebot" (which wasn't written for the reasons most think it was) to "anti-adjunct" might maintain the disdain for crap beers while allowing for all sorts of wonderful brews - both home and away...

Cheers!

grafvonbarnez said:

Its basis was more politico-economic than pro-good-beer. As I understand it, it was more about stopping brewers from using wheat people needed for bread than "ensuring good beer". This was the 16th century after all.

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Yes I realize that, but it was taken way overboard and remained in place for far too long. I am of course saying in hindsight that it was a BS law that only served to hurt what could have been an otherwise great producer of beer and beer styles.

Some may appreciate the traditional styles created under this law, I myself am not a fan of German beers in general.

I heard somewhere that the Rheinheitsgebot was enacted as a form of "drug law" that prevented people from brewing with alternate bittering agents like yarrow and marsh rosemary that induced psychedelic effects in the consumer. Draw a parallel with the snake oil salesmen pawning off opiates as a cure all for what ails ya in the 1800s. Check out grut if you have a chance.

For the record, no one follows this law to the letter anymore, as they all charge too much. Moot point, I guess.

Nightshade said:

Yes I realize that, but it was taken way overboard and remained in place for far too long. I am of course saying in hindsight that it was a BS law that only served to hurt what could have been an otherwise great producer of beer and beer styles. Some may appreciate the traditional styles created under this law, I myself am not a fan of German beers in general.

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I absolutely agree. But at the time, in a pre-industrial society, bread was more important than beer. After all, beer can be made from this barley stuff that makes *%!tty bread. As far as its longevity, and given the many German beers that are advertised as "conforming to the Reinheitsgebot" (Oh, you limited yourself to one grain and jumped through a bunch of needless hoops to brew it?) I think it's a case of tradition overriding taste and variety.

I look at it with a pragmatic eye. The best beers I've made have things such as choclate, fruit zest and bourbon in them. Why would I not make them due to some archaic nonsence?

Not the first dumb thing that's come out of Deutschland fo sho

Not to be rude, but its absolutely a double standard on your part. I mean, hypothetically speaking, if you moved up from home brewing to pro brewing would you no longer use the oats, wheat, coffee, chocolate, teas, ect? I would think you would not so why hold it against those that do?

Are we all of a sudden in Germany?

If not, if you want to make a bourbon vanilla chocolate covered cherry ale...go for it.

If we are, better get working on the bratwurst beer.

If you want to see what other ingredients have to offer, why wouldn't you want to see what others are producing with those? You're just suppressing yourself in my opinion.

erichsmith said:

Question/Discussion...
My wife...brought up the fact that most of the beers I brew don't follow the reinheitsgebot

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I'm still reeling from trying to process this part

Reinheitsgebot is a 526 year old law...from Germany. The intent of the law is totally lost on modern society. Forget it, there is no relevance to anyone today. In it's day, it forced a cleaner beer that was reliably untainted, that's all.

erichsmith said:

but I talk bad about breweries that don't and usually won't drink their beer.

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I'm sorry... you criticize breweries for not following Reinheitsgebot and won't drink their beers?

Complete double standard. Why do I feel like I'm getting trolled?

retheisen said:

yarrow and marsh rosemary that induced psychedelic effects in the consumer

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My problem is that I have yet to switch to hops.

You're missing out on a lot of great beer, and severely limiting the breweries you would buy from. The Reinheitsgebot is an antiquated German law. We're not in Germany. I'd love to hear how you came up with this idiotic standard.

Nightshade said:

Dumbest law ever.

I get the idea behind it but it severely stunted the growth of style for those under the law.

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That may be, but the Germans sure do make some god damn good beer.

beersk said:

That may be, but the Germans sure do make some god damn good beer.

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That is your opinion, I prefer English styles

Nightshade said:

Dumbest law ever. I get the idea behind it but it severely stunted the growth of style for those under the law.

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it destroyed lots of unique North German beers because while it was a Bavarian law, it became the law of Germany after it consolidated in the late 19th century.

If anything, the law was a form of protectionism for Bavarian breweries. Not a guarantee of quality.

A little bit of honey, candi sugar or dextrose never hurt anyone. Remember Germany also came up with things like the holocaust, ballistic missiles and other horrible things like the cooling system, differential and interior on my M3.

m3n00b said:

A little bit of honey, candi sugar or dextrose never hurt anyone. Remember Germany also came up with things like the holocaust, ballistic missiles and other horrible things like the cooling system, differential and interior on my M3.

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Maybe you need to take your Belgian car out instead of the BMW today. Wouldn't want people thinking you were German, just because you drive a German car.

As to your argument that dextrose "never hurt anyone", guessing you missed the movie "Children of the Corn". GMO corn hurts everyone except for the MON. Up next - alfalfa.

Personally I used to add sugar, and honey to recipes that called for them. Now my focus is on styles based mostly on barley, water, hops and yeast. Occasionally I will add oats cause that's just plain good in a stout, and of course rye in roggenbier and wheat in wheat beer. And bacon in a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich.

However, the barrel aged big stout in a freshly dumped whiskey barrel, combined with a little vanilla, was my favorite beer perhaps of all time. Just SOOOOOO goooooood.

Nightshade said:

That is your opinion, I prefer English styles

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I like English styles as well, don't get me wrong. I wonder how different beer would be today were it not for the Purity Law...
Then again there was **** like Radler...that's not pure! How'd they let that one slide?

two_hearted said:

I'm sorry... you criticize breweries for not following Reinheitsgebot and won't drink their beers?

Complete double standard. Why do I feel like I'm getting trolled?

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Yeah, I don't get that at all. Adjuncts have their place. Cream ales are absolutely refreshing on a hot day, most Belgian styles wouldn't be the same without being dried out with sugar, and thick stouts with chocolate, bourbon, and vanilla are awesome.

I think the "man law" commercials got in his head... No fruit in the beer.

beersk said:

I like English styles as well, don't get me wrong. I wonder how different beer would be today were it not for the Purity Law...
Then again there was **** like Radler...that's not pure! How'd they let that one slide?

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Radler is a mix of beer and lemonade. So, the beer was brewed under reinheitsgebot law, then mixed at the bar for you like a cocktail.

I absolutely agree. But at the time, in a pre-industrial society, bread was more important than beer.

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BAH! The devil you say. Beer was far more important than bread up until human beings figured out that they couldn't poop in the same water that they drank.

Also, the German Purity law? Bah. Give me a pound of table sugar to dump into my saison any day.

Is this thread a joke?

All these German beers claim to follow the reisgnwhatever but use hop extract. I don't belive they had that **** in the 1400's

You're not even allowed to dry-hop if you follow the beer purity law. Eff that.

FarmerTed said:

You're not even allowed to dry-hop if you follow the beer purity law. Eff that.

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Anthony Michael Hall says, "So what!"

retheisen said:

I heard somewhere that the Rheinheitsgebot was enacted as a form of "drug law" that prevented people from brewing with alternate bittering agents like yarrow and marsh rosemary that induced psychedelic effects in the consumer. Draw a parallel with the snake oil salesmen pawning off opiates as a cure all for what ails ya in the 1800s. Check out grut if you have a chance.

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Another aspect of banning gruit in favor of hops would have been actual purity reasons. The law was enacted before Germ Theory was developed. We didn't even know what yeast was, and certainly didn't have rigorous sanitation. The fact that hops have anti-bacterial properties would have made hopped beers less likely to spoil or become infected than those bittered with gruit.

The Reinheitsgebot does not specify the procedure from what I know but only the ingredients. Originally the other big part of the law was the taxation. It described how beer is taxed. But this has part has changed so much over the last centuries that it was finally removed. Nowadays it is just a law for ingredients and beer brewed and sold on Germany still has to follow that law. Is it outdated? Maybe.
On the other hand here in the USA the FDA still exempts breweries from listing their ingredients on beer. And there are no allergy warnings either.
You basically don't know what it is made of. Could be rice, barley, high fructose corn syrup.

I just like to know what my food is made of. And yes I look at the ingredient labels when I go shopping.
I don't have a problem if breweries are adding other natural ingredients like fruits, spices, .... But it should be listed as ingredients. Unfortunately right now only with beers brewed by the RHG you know what is in it.

retheisen said:

I heard somewhere that the Rheinheitsgebot was enacted as a form of "drug law" that prevented people from brewing with alternate bittering agents like yarrow and marsh rosemary that induced psychedelic effects in the consumer. Draw a parallel with the snake oil salesmen pawning off opiates as a cure all for what ails ya in the 1800s. Check out grut if you have a chance.

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Yes. Local little brewers used all kind of weird stuff. From intoxicative ingredients such as wormwood, myrtle, agaric mushrooms or just plain disgusting things like Ox-gall (bittering) or soot and blood for color.
People got sick and died. This is why they put a lid on it and limited the ingredients.
Most of that stuff would be forbidden anyhow nowadays by all kind of laws in the food industry but we may face other risks nowadays which continue to be controversial. From high fructose corn syrup to gen modified plants.

Back in the Dark Ages, the RHG was the solution to brewers using inferior ingredients during the brewing of beer.

Prior to the RHG, unscrupulous or ignorant German brewers were adding all kinds of crap to their beers, and it wasn't chocolate, sugar, or herbs.

However today, the law has certainly outlived its original intent and purpose IMHO.

And I forgot one more thing: The RHG also originally limited the types of grain. The original law only allowed barley to secure grains for other foods such as bread and avoid price competition with bakers on grains like wheat and rye.
That was later changed as well.

erichsmith said:

Question/Discussion...

I just kegged a Black Pomegranate Tea beer on Tuesday and last weekend I brewed a California Kolsch. My wife being the constant antagonist in my life brought up the fact that most of the beers I brew don't follow the reinheitsgebot but I talk bad about breweries that don't and usually won't drink their beer. I told her that as a home brewer I am not selling my beer and like to see what other ingredients have to offer. She said the breweries want the same. (See what I'm up against?) So, my question/discussion topic has to do with commercial breweries following only the reinheitsgebot while home brewers "do their thing" is it a double standard for me?

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Sorry, your wife makes more sense than you do.

You bash breweries that don't follow reinheitsgebot? Why? That law has absolutely no relevance anymore. Others have gone into the problems it was meant to solve, but those aren't problems anymore. I'd argue that breweries that go follow the law are artificially limiting themselves from advancing their craft. The only reason I can think of that they'd do that is out of laziness or fear, and I'd rather not drink THEIR beer.

And you're asking if two different people, doing the same thing, each with their own set of standards is a double standard?