octoberfest to lager or ale???

So bought the Octoberfest kit and it one where I can lager or ale....I guess its all about what temp I ferment at.
Question is whats best? I've only done ales at room temp so far. I can put it in the garage for now as its still in the 40s here in wi.
Tbd for your assistance.

I don't know about what's "best", but Oktoberfests are traditionally lagers, and if you brew it as an ale it won't taste the same. Since you have the capability right now, I'd use the lager yeast.

Make sure you pitch a big ol' starter (probably a gallon) too. That's where most people get in trouble on their first lager.

Well, the yeast generally determines if it is a lager or ale. So, what kind of yeast is in the kit? Saflager S-23? S-05?

I believe it was a lager yeast, it was liquid and an Activator kind...see still a newbie.

Anyways, I will likely go with the lager method.

So here's my plan, pls shoot holes where needed or advise.

1. Move to garage at roughly a temp of ~50f for 3 weeks
2. Don't move to 2ndary carboy, and let it sit in the primary for another month in a fridge for a month at about ~40f
3. Keg after those 7 weeks, then move to keg and set the PSI to 10-12 and let it sit for another week.
4. Week 8-9, pour a few and celebrate a delicious brew
5. Make plans for rolling another batch out later this fall with tweaks if needed.

thanks in advance for any more help/advice.

If you can, lager...

- Make a starter according to http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html be sure to set the parameters correctly you'd need 3.6 vials of lager yeast for a 5 gal, 1050 beer. Or, you'd need 2 vials in a 3L starter. Since you're new, consider buying the 3 vials (you could get by with 3 but may want to go for 4...up to you).

- brew it...
- chill it to as close to 50 degrees as you can get it without taking too long. If it's 40 degrees outside, then your groundwater is ~ 32 degrees? Have a chiller? Snowbanks? Try to cover the wort while chilling if you don't have a chiller (many cover while usign a chiller too). I have a 3/8", 25' copper coil as a chiller. My groundwater is ~45 degrees. I can chill 5 gal from 212 to 70 degrees in 15 minutes (or so). I (very gently) get a whirlpool going using my spoon. Be careful not to agitate/aerate the wort, but moving the wort past the chiller will chill it down faster.
- drain to your sanitized (I like StarSan) fermenter, cover with a sanitized cover and chill further to ~50 degrees.
- pitch your yeast and cover with a sanitized bung with blow-off (preferred due to aggressive fermentation)

- I rarely ever 2ndary... I'd let it ferment in the primary for a month, rack to the keg, put it in the fridge at 32 degrees and let it sit for another month. Force carbonate at your required PSI and enjoy after the requisite amount of time has passed to carbonate.

Now, you mentioned the garage being ~50 degrees... is it stable? Guessing not...temperature fluctuations are bad. Couple options, do you have a large tub of water to put the fermenter into? The larger water mass will reduce temp fluctuations from day to night.

If you can't get stable, 50 degree storage, consider doing it as a yeast and ferment inside in a stable environment.

FensterBos said:

Well, the yeast generally determines if it is a lager or ale. So, what kind of yeast is in the kit? Saflager S-23? S-05?

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I bought an oktoberfest kit that came with lager yeast , but wiith instructions on how to brew it either way. It just won't be ideal if you do it like an ale.

Okay, I actually emptied out my fridge in the bar and the 6.5 carboy with Octfest is a perfect fit. I have it set for a constant ~44f. I just brewed it up on Saturday, 3/26.

My question is it that too warm/cold ...what temp should I have it at?

Also, how long should I leave it at that temp and do I need to move it to a lower temp later?

Its bubbling about every couple of seconds so its still rocking.

I figured this would be better than leaving it in the garage where it was about 58f and had swings in temp at night/day.

Thanks again for you advice.

I'd aim for ~50 degrees if able

Responses in bold

madbird1977 said:

Okay, I actually emptied out my fridge in the bar and the 6.5 carboy with Octfest is a perfect fit. I have it set for a constant ~44f. I just brewed it up on Saturday, 3/26.

My question is it that too warm/cold ...what temp should I have it at?

I'm assuming you confirmed it was a lager yeast that came with the kit. 44F is fine. I use 50F for primary fermentation of lagers, but I believe most lager yeasts, if not all of them, will ferment at that temp

Also, how long should I leave it at that temp and do I need to move it to a lower temp later?

For a octoberfest, you need to do a diacetyl rest. When airlock activity slow down to a bubbling per minute or so, move your carboy to room temp (less than 70F ideally) and let it rest for 48 hours

Its bubbling about every couple of seconds so its still rocking.

I figured this would be better than leaving it in the garage where it was about 58f and had swings in temp at night/day.

Thanks again for you advice.

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After the diacetyl rest, you have to lager it at temps 10F lower than primary. Have you got another carboy?

Thanks for the input, I'm going to move it to 50f as the lower I go I could kill the yeast I have learned.

I asked a brewing buddy and he said about the same exact thing as indyking and let me know about the diacetyl rest. Man, the instructions that came with the kit are way off, really disappointed in that.

Anyways, I do have a few other carboys, so I can use 1 after the diacetyl rest so move it to a 2ndary fermenter and let it rest a couple of months in there.

Anything else I may be missing?

I am probably going to get flamed here, but I have never followed Mr. Malty. I took one look at it and saw that for ten gallons I should make a 2.5 gallon starter. I said EFF THAT and just made my usual starter and split it. I have been making lagers for ten years, and have been doing it that way the entire time. I just kegged my annual O'Fest and it finished out at 1.010. Sorry guys I just don't do it your way, and have never had a problem. Just my .02 worth.

Bernie Brewer said:

I am probably going to get flamed here, but I have never followed Mr. Malty. I took one look at it and saw that for ten gallons I should make a 2.5 gallon starter. I said EFF THAT and just made my usual starter and split it. I have been making lagers for ten years, and have been doing it that way the entire time. I just kegged my annual O'Fest and it finished out at 1.010. Sorry guys I just don't do it your way, and have never had a problem. Just my .02 worth.

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I don't know why anyone would flame you for having good success using your process...

I use the calculator as a tool and nothing else. He's spent a ton of time counting yeast cells for a reason and has way more science behind him than anything I've ever done. That being said, if it seems unreasonable, I wing it...

What I've determined is that the suggested pitching sizes can be HUGE for big beers or big volumes... like 2.5gal for a 10gal batch of beer. Well, then I look at the fact that I'm not going to pitch 2.5 gallons, but I'll grow my starter bigger and decant off as much as possible.

calc = tool = something that [can] help make better beer

My second batch was a Brewer's Best Oktoberfest. I kept mine in the primary for a month at room temp (68-70 degrees) and had a very drinkable beer.

If I found this board 8 months ago I could have gave you my gravities, but I was just loosely following directions and watching the airlock at that point.

Looking back at the directions, I like how they gave the expected OG, but not the FG...

madbird1977 said:

Thanks for the input, I'm going to move it to 50f as the lower I go I could kill the yeast I have learned.

I asked a brewing buddy and he said about the same exact thing as indyking and let me know about the diacetyl rest. Man, the instructions that came with the kit are way off, really disappointed in that.

Anyways, I do have a few other carboys, so I can use 1 after the diacetyl rest so move it to a 2ndary fermenter and let it rest a couple of months in there.

Anything else I may be missing?

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What brand kit is it? The instructions were good with the one I got from Austin Home Brew. I'm just leaving mine at 62 for a month and I think it'll be fine. As good as an traditional oktoberfest lager? Unlikely, but I know this will work and for my first brew I don't want to mess around, and I know it's going to still be pretty tasty.

make sure to do the diacetyl rest at 60-65 degrees for 3-5 days towards the very end of fermentation. Then slowly drop the temp down to 32-34 degrees and lager for a couple months.

The kits was from a local homebrew shop. Not to knock them but from the info, I'm getting from other homebrewers and on here they missed out on a few steps like the diacetyl rest and the longer fermentation periods.

I think the next couple of kits will be from Northerbrewer.

Any other suggestions on places to get kits or corny kegs? I need 2 more for my kegerator.

madbird1977 said:

The kits was from a local homebrew shop. Not to knock them but from the info, I'm getting from other homebrewers and on here they missed out on a few steps like the diacetyl rest and the longer fermentation periods.

I think the next couple of kits will be from Northerbrewer.

Any other suggestions on places to get kits or corny kegs? I need 2 more for my kegerator.

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can't go wrong with Northern brewer. Austin Homebrew Supply has a good rep as well

madbird1977 said:

The kits was from a local homebrew shop. Not to knock them but from the info, I'm getting from other homebrewers and on here they missed out on a few steps like the diacetyl rest and the longer fermentation periods.

I think the next couple of kits will be from Northerbrewer.

Any other suggestions on places to get kits or corny kegs? I need 2 more for my kegerator.

Click to expand...

Diacetyl rest is not mandatory by the way. Not all yeast produce diacetyl. I brewed 15 batches ales and lagers and I don't know what diacetyl taste like since I never had it in my beer. I brewed numerous batches with Notty, US-05, Wyeast 2565, 2001, 2206 and never experienced diacetyl. Proper pitching rates and pitching & fermenting on cooler side seems to work for me. Sample your beer after fermentation is complete, diacetyl rest is cheap insurance though

I bring my wort down to 43. Pitch the yeast, and increase the temp up to 50 and ferment there. It's nice and easy on the yeast.

I'll do the diacetyl rest around 60 deg.

Mr Malty is the ideal amount of yeast. Most of us can't afford it. For a 5 gallon batch you can typically get away with a single smack pack. The beer might not be the best that it could, but it will still be good. Now a lot of us have learned to make starters and get the counts up, but even then it's still not "ideal". At least we get it closer.
I'm wanting to do a 10 gal dopplebock that wanted 6 packets of yeast..... So I brewed a 5 gal Helles with two smack packs. As soon as that finishes, I'm pitching that slurry into the dopplebock to get the proper amount.

Typical brew kits don't give enough instructional detail to cover the experience and information you can get from here. No kit I've brewed with talked about raising the ferm temp a few degrees after the beer sits in the primary for 3 weeks... The kit instructions are intended to get you from raw ingredient to beer in easy, care-free steps. Once people get hooked on the hobby, they start looking online and end up here...where tehy learn that the instructions on the box left a tonof detail out...

I like many of the online stores and buy stuff from them from time to time but I also like to buy from my local store to keep them in business. They're right up the road and are open 6 days a week. When the yeast I bought with my kit from someplace else is bad, I can go there to get more yeast. I've slowly transitioned to buying almost everything from them because they've been good about advice and experience too...