Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

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Brewed it sunday.
SG 1.091
24 hrs 80 degrees
48hrs 80 degrees, 1.035
72hrs 80 degrees, 1.027
96hrs 80 degrees 1.024

I am concerned that the gravity is still so high.

This is from last year when I brewed it.

Brewed on Jan 21st Pitched at 67, free rise, to 80 the next day (gravity was 1.080)
On the 24th, gravity was 1.018
On the 29th gravity was 1.014
Today, the 31st gravity is still 1.014 (sample taste much better than on the 29th)

Any idea what I should do? Is there anything I can do?
 
Holy smokes, your gravity dropped that fast? Tomorrow is judgement day for my batch. It was at .020 for a while so I increased the temperature back to 80f, roused the yeast, and left it for 7 days.

I keg the batch tomorrow and will see if the extra love helped it get down below .020. I'm not holding my breath but a point or two would be nice.
 
Leave it on the yeast cake for longer than a month? As of today, it's been a month since it went into the carboy.
 
MASH SCHEDULE
Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F (9 gallons in), 30 min.
Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min.
High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.

This ale is a genuine work of art.

Cheers!

www.candisyrup.com

I am totally new to decoction mashing and would like to try this recipe using BIAB.
Does the above mean I start with 9 gallons water at whatever temp is required to do a Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F for 30mins?
My limited understanding is that after 30mins, I would take some of the mash liquid and grain and boil it in another pot then add it back to raise the temperature and do Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min. Is this correct? How much grain and liquid would I need to take out and boil to achieve that ? How long do you boil before adding back?
I assume I follow the same procedure again with the High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.
Any advice would help immensely.
 
el_caro said:
I am totally new to decoction mashing and would like to try this recipe using BIAB.
Does the above mean I start with 9 gallons water at whatever temp is required to do a Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F for 30mins?
My limited understanding is that after 30mins, I would take some of the mash liquid and grain and boil it in another pot then add it back to raise the temperature and do Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min. Is this correct? How much grain and liquid would I need to take out and boil to achieve that ? How long do you boil before adding back?
I assume I follow the same procedure again with the High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.
Any advice would help immensely.

What do you do to figure out your strike water now?
There are a few different ways to do it but you've got the gist of the procedure. Heat 9 gallons of strike water to a sufficient temp to get a 132f initial mash and mash-in. Extract a calculated volume -Basically, you can figure the boiled mash as an infusion of 212 f liquid into a 132f and enough volume to reach your first sacch rest at 152. Then repeat using the new temperature of the mash(152f) with 212f liquid being added.

Just remember that you should always remove MORE thick mash than required. This insures you can hit your target temp and the amount left over you let cool to the target temp and re introduce to the mash already at temp.

I use beer smith and it calculates all that for me but the numbers will be slightly different depending on your system.

Check out kaiser's YouTube videos on it. It's on a sticky called "decoction video" in the "all grain" forum.
 
I am totally new to decoction mashing and would like to try this recipe using BIAB.
Does the above mean I start with 9 gallons water at whatever temp is required to do a Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F for 30mins?
My limited understanding is that after 30mins, I would take some of the mash liquid and grain and boil it in another pot then add it back to raise the temperature and do Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min. Is this correct? How much grain and liquid would I need to take out and boil to achieve that ? How long do you boil before adding back?
I assume I follow the same procedure again with the High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.
Any advice would help immensely.

We have a decoction doc out on http://www.candisyrup.com/help-docs.html that has a footnote on the Westvleteren 12 decoction and all the calcs you will need to determine decoction mash volume. I think there are also some online calcs out there for decoction volume. Promash will also help you calc decoction volume as Brewskii mentioned above.

If using the CSI Westvletern 12 clone recipe make sure and download the most recent update. We're always refining it. http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

The H2O volume will depend on your equipment type and size.
 
Mine didn't budge a point. After 30 days, it's still at 1.019. Now it's resting under gas @ 40f for a while. It didn't taste too sweet either, surprising since it's somewhat high.

For the next batch, I'll pitch more yeast and see what happens.
 
I have my Pious New World in the primary for 8 days and it has gone down to .017 and is now at 73 degress.

when would be a good time to transfer it, if at all?
 
I have my Pious New World in the primary for 8 days and it has gone down to .017 and is now at 73 degress.

when would be a good time to transfer it, if at all?

.012 is target FG, so if you can get it down to that, you're golden.
 
I have my Pious New World in the primary for 8 days and it has gone down to .017 and is now at 73 degress.

when would be a good time to transfer it, if at all?

Leave it on the yeast for about 2 or 3 weeks. If you are kegging do so at that point and let it age around 55-60 for 2 months. After that pop it in the kegerator and check it out.
 
Ok, just popped another old world.

I read nearly all the pages of this thread when i brewed it. "Let it age" "Dont even bother drinking it before 6 months." blah blah blah. Bunch of old woman!

Only... so farking true... This one is getting close to a year old now. It tastes like a different beer now! I am not exagerating, if you tasted this at 3 months, 6 months, and now... you would say they were three different beers.

Freaking amazing beer! Cheers to the OP! One of my facourites, without a doubt.

Took me a few minutes to decide to take a pic, so some of the head had died down... still a beautiful beer i reckon!

IMG_4740.jpg


PS... its kicking my ass! one beer! it is 11.3% though... OG: 1.090 FG 1.010

:mug:
 
sockmerchant said:
Ok, just popped another old world.

blah blah blah.

Bunch of old woman!

Only... so farking true...

Freaking amazing beer!

One of my facourites, without a doubt.


PS... its kicking my ass! one beer! it is 11.3% though... OG: 1.090 FG 1.010

:mug:

The post-script goes w/o saying :D

Now I have only 8 more months to go! (Dammit)
 
sockmerchant said:
Ok, just popped another old world.

I read nearly all the pages of this thread when i brewed it. "Let it age" "Dont even bother drinking it before 6 months." blah blah blah. Bunch of old woman!

Only... so farking true... This one is getting close to a year old now. It tastes like a different beer now! I am not exagerating, if you tasted this at 3 months, 6 months, and now... you would say they were three different beers.

Freaking amazing beer! Cheers to the OP! One of my facourites, without a doubt.

Took me a few minutes to decide to take a pic, so some of the head had died down... still a beautiful beer i reckon!

PS... its kicking my ass! one beer! it is 11.3% though... OG: 1.090 FG 1.010

:mug:

That looks great, I love the effect of the black beer with the white head. I'm excited to try mine (in a year)
 
I think mine is finished.
FG 1.091
5 days later it was at 1.020
Now it's 5 more days, and still at 1.020
I think I'll leave it another week or so in the fermenter, then keg it.
The hydrometer samples taste really good already.
 
Layne said:
I think mine is finished.
FG 1.091
5 days later it was at 1.020
Now it's 5 more days, and still at 1.020
I think I'll leave it another week or so in the fermenter, then keg it.
The hydrometer samples taste really good already.

You missed the target FG by quite a bit, it should be much lower by now.

How big was your starter? Did you use pure O2 to oxygenate?
 
2vials in a 2liter starter on a stir plate.
60 seconds of pure O2 thru a diffuser.
Into 10 gallons.
 
I have a question....

I want to do a half batch of the traditional recipe. Is the 1.090 OG before the second syrup addition in the primary or post boil?
 
Saq - I'm going to brew your new world recipe from page one. I see an updated trial from you in the 30's with d180 and d90. Which recipe do you recommend as best and what amts of which candi sugar?

Thanks
 
2vials in a 2liter starter on a stir plate.
60 seconds of pure O2 thru a diffuser.
Into 10 gallons.

Well, assuming 80% viability, that is still a pretty big under-pitch (400B cells vs. 618B required). If you're vials were more than a month old, the problem only gets worse.

Makes more sense now.
 
Well... In my own experience, you can get it to finish nice and low with good temp control, letting it rise (NOT letting it drop once you do let it rise), and mashing super low.

His numbers would be around what i pitched. Mine finished at 1.010, which is about where i end with this style in most cases.

I haven't found that pitching numbers greatly affect my FG, but it majorly affects my esters etc. With Belgians, I get the best flavour profile when i somewhat under-pitch. Pitching the litres of starter that MrMalty suggests tends to result in beer that is too clean (low esters etc) for my liking.

If you do underpitch you better be on the ball with early temp control though. otherwise you will get an assload of fusals etc during the massive early reproduction
 
So, for clarity's sake...saq knows/ is friendly with CSI?
I hope so or CSI is getting away with a felonious thread hijack!

Either way-thanks to both for the good info
 
I haven't found that pitching numbers greatly affect my FG, but it majorly affects my esters etc.
I have often wondered about this. I just don't see the yeast stopping while there are fermentable sugars available. I bottle condition and even when something finishes too high the yeast will kick in and eat the priming sugar with no problem.
 
I have often wondered about this. I just don't see the yeast stopping while there are fermentable sugars available. I bottle condition and even when something finishes too high the yeast will kick in and eat the priming sugar with no problem.

Well, as far I understand it you mainly get a longer lag phase. So the yeast build up their numbers for longer. They are a bit more stressed etc, and put off more esters and other compounds. As I said, if I pitch too much yeast it really reduces the Belgiany character in my belgians. I have a dubbel currently that is not nearly as good as it should be. I definitely attribute this to overpitching.
 
Well, assuming 80% viability, that is still a pretty big under-pitch (400B cells vs. 618B required). If you're vials were more than a month old, the problem only gets worse.

Makes more sense now.

Yeah, I must have done something wrong on mr. Malyt's calculator
 
sockmerchant said:
I haven't found that pitching numbers greatly affect my FG, but it majorly affects my esters etc. With Belgians, I get the best flavour profile when i somewhat under-pitch. Pitching the litres of starter that MrMalty suggests tends to result in beer that is too clean (low esters etc) for my liking.

I get the best ester character pitching just about what Mr. Malty recommends, and holding the bulk of fermentation in the low 70's. This beer gets too hot/phenolic under-pitching and running it up into the 80's, IMO.
 
Individual results will vary of course. For me, pitching mr malty numbers are way too clean for dark strongs. That may be appropriate for some belgian styles, but not for others. My best results are from pitching a bit low (not way under) and keeping it at 18C for the first half of fermentation, then bumping it up to get a low finish
 
I get the best ester character pitching just about what Mr. Malty recommends, and holding the bulk of fermentation in the low 70's. This beer gets too hot/phenolic under-pitching and running it up into the 80's, IMO.
Last time I had a Rochfort 12 I still felt 'drugged' the next day and wondered if something like this played a part in it. I've been starting all my ales low with a good yeast pitch. Not quite 'lager' but then ramping up 5 degrees at a time depending on how my hydrometer sample is reading.
 
Layne - mine too stopped @ 1.020; however, my starting gravity was three points higher @ 1.094.

I pitched a 1.5L starter, potentially not enough. Fermentation was fast and furious but nonetheless, it stopped short of target.

It tastes great too, not overly sweet as you might expect. Tomorrow will be 5 weeks since brew day. It's sitting in the keezer @ 40f "aging" under gas. I'll taste it this weekend and without a doubt, I am very anxious to do so.

For the next batch, which I have the grains & syrup for, I'll go with a higher starter. I found a new Pyrex Erlenmeyer 4L flask on eBay for $45 shipped. It's huge next to the puny 2L flask I've been using. The 4L will be for the extreme brews such as the Chimay Red that's on-deck.
 
Wow, after a week under gas, and still very under carbonated, it really tastes great. This is going to be awesome carbed & aged.
 
individual results will vary of course. For me, pitching mr malty numbers are way too clean for dark strongs. That may be appropriate for some belgian styles, but not for others. My best results are from pitching a bit low (not way under) and keeping it at 18c for the first half of fermentation, then bumping it up to get a low finish

+1 on approach.
 
I'm on week 3 in bottles (natural carb) and it's still very under carbed. :/

I repitched with .5 pack of US 05 and added 5.5 oz priming sugar. My top fermentation temp was 79 so I think that should work out to a 3.2 carb level, but alas, no carb yet.

It's been conditioning in my room, which is about 68F, so I think that may be the problem. From what I understand, bottle conditioning should be done around 72-73 degrees.

I'm thinking of picking up a space heater and aiming it at them. Any input?

I also purged the head space of the bottles with CO2 from my beer gun (I used kegs as my "bottling bucket" since I never bought a bottling bucket.
 
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