Favre overload--COUNTDOWN TO 421
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desertBrew said:
Two breakdowns in the red zone....could have had 415....but so far 2 TDs and no picks.
He has been more patient in the pocket today than I have EVER seen him, and I've seen lots of his games.
Nobody can convince me he isn't still a top 10 QB. 3 rookies on his o-line, 1 legit WR and he still lights it up.
Dude said:
Well, not in this thread anyway...
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Chairman Cheyco said:Well, not in this thread anyway...
Well, I'd be more than happy to state my case in the "other" thread, but all of the Rex Grossman and Tom Brady polesmokers can't accept reality.
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Ugly day for #4. Ahman Green couldn't catch a cold. He was directly responsible for tipping catchable passes into defenders hands.
Oh well, 3 more closer to George Blanda, no more closer to Dan Marino.
Oh well, 3 more closer to George Blanda, no more closer to Dan Marino.
You amaze me sometimes...
I saw a stat referenced in Bill Simmon's latest mailbag, discussing Marc Bulger specifically but also relevant to the conversation at hand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061215
I saw a stat referenced in Bill Simmon's latest mailbag, discussing Marc Bulger specifically but also relevant to the conversation at hand...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/061215
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the_bird said:
OMFG. Once the NFL starts counting that as an official stat, we'll talk.
I see you and Todd won't even respond a decent answer to my post in the FFB thread regarding all the QBs "better" than Favre. You have no pot to piss in.
Yet you'll slam Favre any chance you get. Any QB around as long as he has been will be up there in INTS. Ever see Elway's career stats?
'cause just because a statistic is maintained by an independant third party, not the National Football League, it's completely worthless....
todd_k
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Dude said:OMFG. Once the NFL starts counting that as an official stat, we'll talk.
I see you and Todd won't even respond a decent answer to my post in the FFB thread regarding all the QBs "better" than Favre. You have no pot to piss in.
Yet you'll slam Favre any chance you get. Any QB around as long as he has been will be up there in INTS. Ever see Elway's career stats?
I don't want you to get your panties in a bunch again but if you insist..... Have the packers clinched a playoff spot yet? How many pic's was that yesterday? Who's fault is it now?
Rhoobarb
Well-Known Member
All I'll say is I'm really waiting for the Packers/Bear matchup on New Year's Eve. It may be Brett's last game.
It may be Brett's last game.
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the_bird said:'cause just because a statistic is maintained by an independant third party, not the National Football League, it's completely worthless....
LMAO. Let's see how close Brady gets to the all time record in TD passes.
todd_k said:I don't want you to get your panties in a bunch again but if you insist..... Have the packers clinched a playoff spot yet? How many pic's was that yesterday? Who's fault is it now?
Who the **** cares? That has nothing to do with the fact that Favre is a handful of TD passes away from being the ALL TIME LEADER. Best ever.
You keep comparing apples to oranges. So what if the Packers don't have the all around talent to make the playoffs right now? What matters is the "Bares" were Favre's ***** for a decade. It must really suck to be a Bares fan suffocated by that for so long. Traumatic.
You know, it's not a perfect stat, but the QB Rating generally does a good job at compiling all the relevant statistics. The guys at the top are the Peytons and Carson Palmers, at the bottom are the Joey Harringtons and Bruce Gradkowskis.
Brett Favre this year?
#24.
Numbers 22 - 25 read Alex Smith, Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Charlie Frye. Great company Brett's keeping these days...
Take that for what it's worth...
Brett Favre this year?
#24.
Numbers 22 - 25 read Alex Smith, Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Charlie Frye. Great company Brett's keeping these days...
Take that for what it's worth...
You know, i'm just sick of all the what have you done for me lately "fans". Frankly (and at the risk of being labeled a "farve apologist") my view is that Brett has EARNED the right to play as long as he wants. The guy just wants to win. That's it. Does he throw terrible passes that make you wonder how the heck he made it beyond pee wee football...absolutely...but 90% of those balls are because he's trying to do too much. Again...he just wants to win...he has never been a just "manage the game" type of quarterback...the only way he knows how to play is to just go for it. Frankly i wouldn't have it any other way.
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the_bird said:You know, it's not a perfect stat, but the QB Rating generally does a good job at compiling all the relevant statistics. The guys at the top are the Peytons and Carson Palmers, at the bottom are the Joey Harringtons and Bruce Gradkowskis.
Brett Favre this year?
#24.
Numbers 22 - 25 read Alex Smith, Jon Kitna, Brett Favre, Charlie Frye. Great company Brett's keeping these days...
Take that for what it's worth...
Exactly, take it for what its worth. I won't argue that the passer rating is a useful stat to compare QBs. It still doesn't make a damn bit of difference for the Packers.
What is Aaron Rodgers' (who you guys think is better than Favre) passer rating? 48.2. Yep, I'd rather have him at QB than a first ballot hall of famer who is a gnats nut away from the most prestigious passing record in all of football. Go Aaron!!!!!
I've said it before (I think), but the pisser of this to the Pack, IMHO?
They could have either drafted Matt Leinhart, or gone after Drew Brees last offseason. I *knew* Brees was under-rated in the league, he's never gotten the respect he deserves. I know you have to take it on faith that I'm not cherry-picking Bree's name after a good season. Whether they could have convinced him to come to Green Bay is a huge question, but they never had the chance because Favre hemmed and hawed so long about whether he was or was not coming back.
They could have either drafted Matt Leinhart, or gone after Drew Brees last offseason. I *knew* Brees was under-rated in the league, he's never gotten the respect he deserves. I know you have to take it on faith that I'm not cherry-picking Bree's name after a good season. Whether they could have convinced him to come to Green Bay is a huge question, but they never had the chance because Favre hemmed and hawed so long about whether he was or was not coming back.
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
I didn't see Rodgers play in that game earlier this year, but I saw him play the last couple of preseasons and IMHO the guy sucks canal water. When they drafted him I said- Aaron who? and my mind hasn't changed a bit. In fact, as much as I like A.J. Hawk, I still wish they had drafted Leinart. They didn't want to admit they f*cked up with Rodgers.
Oh, and one more thing for all you Favre haters: Your favorite QB du jour isn't going to be on top forever, either. What goes around comes around. When Brady or whoever goes in the tank-mind you, it will happen- are you going to jump ship and tell everyone HE sucks, too?
Oh, and one more thing for all you Favre haters: Your favorite QB du jour isn't going to be on top forever, either. What goes around comes around. When Brady or whoever goes in the tank-mind you, it will happen- are you going to jump ship and tell everyone HE sucks, too?
I used to love Drew Bledsoe, as did everyone in New England. He was a great QB for us for a long time. He played hurt, he played hard, he won us a lot of ball games. He got us to the Super Bowl, he made us into a respectable team for several years - and New England was not a franchise used to being respectable.
He was a true leader of the team, and an all-around classy guy.
But, it was clear, even before he got hurt, that he wasn't going to get us to the next level. He was still making dumb mistakes after nearly a decade in the league. He forced passes into coverage. He held the ball too long. He couldn't avoid the rush.
Not to say that it wasn't without controversy, but it was clear Bledsoe was on the way out. Hell, the fans were screaming for Michael Bishop to play. Remember, too, that even after the first title, Brady was still a "game manager," not a superstar.
Does that answer the question in kind of a roundabout way?
He was a true leader of the team, and an all-around classy guy.
But, it was clear, even before he got hurt, that he wasn't going to get us to the next level. He was still making dumb mistakes after nearly a decade in the league. He forced passes into coverage. He held the ball too long. He couldn't avoid the rush.
Not to say that it wasn't without controversy, but it was clear Bledsoe was on the way out. Hell, the fans were screaming for Michael Bishop to play. Remember, too, that even after the first title, Brady was still a "game manager," not a superstar.
Does that answer the question in kind of a roundabout way?
Fiery Sword
Well-Known Member
(In Bill Belichick monotone) Hmm. Well, you know, we value the team over the individual. When a player thinks he is more important than the team, the team struggles. It is what it is. We want football players, ummmm, smart football players who can learn assignments and that kind of thing. Not heroes, football players. (end Bill drone)Sandy said:
Tom Brady will never be bigger than the team, and when he gets to a point in his career when it is better for him to hang up his Super Bowl Rings and chase after the likes of Scarlet Johanssen and Rockets (after I break her and Dice-k up this coming spring) he will do so. It won't mean fans "hate" him, they just are rational enough to know it will be time for him to retire or move on to the Seniors Circuit out in Oakland.
Fiery Sword said:
Interesting...since i don't have the same crystal ball that you seem to, i guess i'll just have to wait and see what Tom Brady will do when that time comes.
This isn't about Brett Favre thinking he's above the team. The guy is a football player...that's all he is, and anyone who would imply that he isn't is out of their mind.
I don't think Brady will walk away - he's too much of a competitor. He SHOULDN'T walk away, nor should Favre.
But, if Belichick is still coach, when the time comes he'll push him away. No player is bigger than the team or the organization. You need to have someone in charge who is strong-willed enough (and empowered by ownership) to make these really, really difficult decisions.
Trade Bledsoe?
Cut Lawyer Malloy?
Trade Deion Branch?
Trade Brett Favre?
Right or wrong, that decision can't be left in the hands of the player. Most football players would play until they were fifty years old if you left it up to them. Someone with a bigger perspective, someone ultimately responsible for the organization as a whole, needs to be the one who makes that determination. Fact is, Green Bay's coaches and management seems to cower before Favre. This is where having poor coaching and poor overall management has hurt the franchise, IMHO.
But, if Belichick is still coach, when the time comes he'll push him away. No player is bigger than the team or the organization. You need to have someone in charge who is strong-willed enough (and empowered by ownership) to make these really, really difficult decisions.
Trade Bledsoe?
Cut Lawyer Malloy?
Trade Deion Branch?
Trade Brett Favre?
Right or wrong, that decision can't be left in the hands of the player. Most football players would play until they were fifty years old if you left it up to them. Someone with a bigger perspective, someone ultimately responsible for the organization as a whole, needs to be the one who makes that determination. Fact is, Green Bay's coaches and management seems to cower before Favre. This is where having poor coaching and poor overall management has hurt the franchise, IMHO.
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
Trading Favre wouldn't help anything. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, he's still their best player. Now if we could just trade away the O-line, a couple wideouts, and most of the defense........
Fiery Sword
Well-Known Member
$10 mil towards the cap could go a long way in shoring up some of those positional needs, no?
Part of the "Larger Picture" is the legacy of the Green Bay Packers, the only (originally said privately,oops) publicly, held sports franchise in the most successful sports organization (NFL) in the world, located in a town of 100,000.
Although the organization can afford to pay what other organizations pay now (after free agency), you cannot put a price on a team honoring a player in this way and letting him play out his days in Green Bay. That this "wouldn't fly" in other cities is a small economic differentiator that MAY distinguish GB as a place to play for an aging veteran at some point in the future.
There may be a day when Favre is pushed out by the new management group instead of leaving on his own. I hope that it never comes to that. I wouldn't suppoort it. I'm in the, "He's earned it camp" and I'm willing to forgo some meaningless backdoor to the playoffs years if it comes to it.
I would remind the Bears fans that the only thing they've "earned" so far is the first week bye and the NFC North title- a title that's meant squat 36 times out of 40 since 1966 when it comes to going all the way.
They haven't really won home field through out the playoffs because that would preclude them winning playoff game #1... of that's right.... they already won the Super Bowl this year.
Although the organization can afford to pay what other organizations pay now (after free agency), you cannot put a price on a team honoring a player in this way and letting him play out his days in Green Bay. That this "wouldn't fly" in other cities is a small economic differentiator that MAY distinguish GB as a place to play for an aging veteran at some point in the future.
There may be a day when Favre is pushed out by the new management group instead of leaving on his own. I hope that it never comes to that. I wouldn't suppoort it. I'm in the, "He's earned it camp" and I'm willing to forgo some meaningless backdoor to the playoffs years if it comes to it.
I would remind the Bears fans that the only thing they've "earned" so far is the first week bye and the NFC North title- a title that's meant squat 36 times out of 40 since 1966 when it comes to going all the way.
They haven't really won home field through out the playoffs because that would preclude them winning playoff game #1... of that's right.... they already won the Super Bowl this year.
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
Um, olllllo, yo meant to say "publicly held" , right? Other than that, you nailed the atmosphere here in Cheeseland pretty well.......
At least I didn't say pubic. That was my first fear!
Lets not pretend that Favre has been on some slow dragging down the Packers for 5+ years tirade. Last year he sucked, this year is better than last but not all that great. A mere 1.8 seasons ago he was selected for the Pro Bowl (8th time).
Only a consistent watcher of his play (I probably missed 5-6 games in his career) would be qualified to state that his physical skills have not diminished much but his talent around him sure has. ANY QB who has to continually play from behind is going to have a worse passer rating and throw more picks. Check your own stats on <fill in QB here> for that reality check. Admittedly he does toss picks more than most but always has; even when he won 3 MVP’s I'd hit my forehead with some of his passes.
No mind though, we can continue this next year as I'm betting he does not retire yet, nor should he. BTW, how old was Elway & Marino when they retired? 39 I believe? What was Moon, 50?. Some other win/loss stats.
Elway 148-82-1 (.643)
Marino 163-108-0 (.601)
Favre 139-82-0 (.629)
Only a consistent watcher of his play (I probably missed 5-6 games in his career) would be qualified to state that his physical skills have not diminished much but his talent around him sure has. ANY QB who has to continually play from behind is going to have a worse passer rating and throw more picks. Check your own stats on <fill in QB here> for that reality check. Admittedly he does toss picks more than most but always has; even when he won 3 MVP’s I'd hit my forehead with some of his passes.
No mind though, we can continue this next year as I'm betting he does not retire yet, nor should he. BTW, how old was Elway & Marino when they retired? 39 I believe? What was Moon, 50?
. Some other win/loss stats.Elway 148-82-1 (.643)
Marino 163-108-0 (.601)
Favre 139-82-0 (.629)
desertBrew said:
Q4T
Thank you db.
I don't wish to imply that I feel that he is hurting the team. I agree with your assessment.
Our identity with our team cuts deeper than wins and losses. I'm sorry that not everyone feels that way.
I'm speechless, frankly... I'll leave this thread alone for the time being.
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
desertBrew said:
true.....it's a cheesehead thing. Why else would Lambeau sell out for the 30 losing seasons before Favre came along?
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Sandy said:
Well said. Bravo. Brett has pissed me off a hell of a lot of times, and even after 16 years he is still capable of winning. He was known as a gunslinger throughout his entire career and as you said, I wouldn't have it any other way either.
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todd_k said:OMG.....
LMAO, really.
Is it because more than one person has spoken reality and you are so downtrodden from Favre bombing your team for 15 years that you can't accept the truth?
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the_bird said:
Speechless about what? Now that someone other than me has spoken the truth, you guys cower away--AGAIN.
I'm having trouble with the whole concept of it being more important to "honor" Favre by letting him play forever, even if it hurts the team as a whole.
Remind me, who was it that once said "Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing"?
Remind me, who was it that once said "Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing"?
the_bird said:
We are saying that this, so far is not the case. Others are talking about trading him on the speculation that he is on the decline OR other unproven players will have better performances.
the_bird said:
If this value, is in fact, instilled into the fabric of the team, I expect that he will know what to do.
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