Coopers Stout vs Coopers Irish Stout

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HopSong

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Maybe this should go in the beginners area.. Mod can move it if s/he likes.

I don't really know the difference between the OS Stout and the Irish. Most of the discussions I've seen re modifying the kit recipe is for the Irish.

I'd like to start with the OS Stout and avoid the Enhancer. If I were to use a can of Cooper Extract with the OS Stout.. which one should I choose? If I were to use a DME, which and how much would I use.

This is all going into the new model Coopers DIY FV which fills to 23L and a lot of head room above the krausen collar.

Thanks, Bill
 
HbgBill said:
Maybe this should go in the beginners area.. Mod can move it if s/he likes.

I don't really know the difference between the OS Stout and the Irish. Most of the discussions I've seen re modifying the kit recipe is for the Irish.

I'd like to start with the OS Stout and avoid the Enhancer. If I were to use a can of Cooper Extract with the OS Stout.. which one should I choose? If I were to use a DME, which and how much would I use.

This is all going into the new model Coopers DIY FV which fills to 23L and a lot of head room above the krausen collar.

Thanks, Bill

It looks like the main difference is the Irish Stout is from a higher level series. I'm not sure how much better it would be. If you wanted to skip the enhancer, you might use 2-3 lbs of DME or 1 can of LME. I don't think exact amounts are crucial. If you used dark extract, it will have a stronger taste. Too strong? The original kits are designed to go with sugar, so they would have significantly more dark grains and roastiness if you went with dark extract. But maybe that's OK.

If you used two cans of stout kits, it would have a lot more hop bitterness.

I would go with light DME or LME instead of sugar, but I don't know if there's a right answer.
 
Having messed around with both I suggest the dry Irish stout I ha consistency issues with the stout. Now that could be because I was new to brewing at the time but the dry Irish I had more luck with.
 
One thing that is different between the two is the yeast. The Irish Stout is part of the Brewmaster Selection which appears to be Coopers attempt to offer something more to style.
 
Ok... so, if I were to go with the Irish Stout LME and wanted to forgo the Enhancer in favor of using one of Coopers Unhopped Malt Extracts, which would you choose..??

There is the Light, the Amber, the WHEAT and the Dark.

I'm sure there is no real right or wrong answer.. but.. I'm wondering about the Wheat Extract. What would you suggest.. yea or nay? What might be the reasoning? What would the Wheat do or add/detract in the mix?

Thanks, Bill
 
Personally I would go with Coopers recommendation, 500g light DME and 300g dextrose. I think you could easily use wheat DME instead of light but would stay away from the dark or amber.
 
PTRay.. thanks.. this will be pretty light on alcohol.. right? <5%. Let's say I wanted somewhere between 5-6%. Malty and maintain hoppiness.

1 Can Coopers I.S.
3 # DME ((light)

Add any maltodextrin for more creaminess?

Add some sort of hops to bring up the bitterness to somewhere around 40?

Am I just saying words I don't understand?

Basically, I'd like to build 6 gals in my DIY FV. I'd like it to be a bit more than I've heard ya get with the kit.. and bring the hop flavor up. As I understand it, I'll lose some of the hoppiness with the addition of the LME rather than a 2nd can of Coop's I.S. extract.
 
If you want to keep it simple:

5 Gallons
Coopers Irish Stout
3lbs light DME

This should get you around 5.5% ABV. If you want to get close to 6% add a half pound of dextrose or table sugar.

I know you mentioned wanting a 6 gallon batch but dropping it down to 5 will easily get you something a little maltier and will slightly increase the bitterness at the same time to offset the sweetness. It will also easily handle adding a half pound of sugar. Personally I don't like using all malt extract as it tends to finish a little sweet. Substituting some sugar in place of part of the extract will help dry it out.
 
Sorry for lack of brains regarding the list of materials and what they do to the end product..

So, is what you are saying.. 1 can + 3# DME at 5gal vs 6..

or.. 1 can + maybe 2.5# DME + 500 gms dextrose?

Again, does maltodextrin fit into this process?

I'll learn some day... just anal to follow someones directions for a "better" recipe..:D

Guess I could simply follow Coopers recipe.. but sounds like better things are possible.
 
I don't think you need maltodextrin if you're using a good bit of extract. It might be needed if you were using a lot of sugar or a high attenuating yeast, but extract beers are notorious for under-attenuating, which leaves body. And Irish stouts aren't really thick.

I don't think there's a simple answer between your two recipes. It's not like one is right and one is wrong. But I'd do 5g over 6g to make it a little stronger (and I personally don't drink enough to feel I need the extra gallon, but you may be different). Brew to 5.25 lbs. so at the end, you have 5 lbs. to bottle.

If you buy a 3lb gab of DME, use it all. In fact, I'd probably do use 3lbs. anyway rather than use sugar. If you're worried about mouthfeel, using sugar instead of DME won't help.
 
I don't know why so many folks get under attenuated extract beers. I just don't have that problem. I think it'd be better to use 3 lbs plain amber DME & some 2oz of hops appropriate to stouts. 1/2 the DME in a 2.5-3 gallon boil,do your hop additions. Then add remaining DME & the cooper's can. Allow to steep for 15 minutes or so while sanitizing FV. Chill down to pitch temp,& proceed as normal. This is basically what I do with cooper's cans. The plain dme with one can & a couple ounces of hops gets me into the 5.3-5.9% range,depending on style.
I can get a 1.050OG down to 1.010 with regularity. I just don't get this under-attenuation curse with extract crap. I think that's a fault of the process more than the ingredients.
 
I just don't get this under-attenuation curse with extract crap. I think that's a fault of the process more than the ingredients.

Agreed. I suspect it has a lot to do with over-caramelizing the sugars in the wort, probably from not fully mixing in the LME. A lot of people don't realize how heavy and sticky it is and even if they do bother to take it off the flame, don't stir properly after adding it.
 
Thanks guys.. I think I have a starting handle on this one now...

I have a partial grain amber ale to do first.. then this stout. :mug:
 
I just don't get this under-attenuation curse with extract crap. I think that's a fault of the process more than the ingredients.
Agreed. I suspect it has a lot to do with over-caramelizing the sugars in the wort, probably from not fully mixing in the LME. A lot of people don't realize how heavy and sticky it is and even if they do bother to take it off the flame, don't stir properly after adding it.

Generally speaking you can expect an all extract beer to finish slightly higher than an all grain given all things equal. More so with amber and dark extract as they tend to have been made with a percentage of crystal and Munich.
 
Not in my experience. 1.010 to 1.012 every time. I use only 1.5lbs of plain DME (from extra light to amber) in the boil for hop additions. Then the remaining DME. Cooper's can(s) at flame out. That's how I get the lighter colors,& higher attenuation. Cleaner beers result,especially so when I can keep temps under control.
I can see what you're saying,but the process I use generally negates these effects to a large degree.
 
I have made both the coopers stout and the coopers Irish stout kits. I used 1 kg of corn sugar with the coopers original stout. Then I made the coopers Irish stout. I added 3 pounds of light DME to it. Of the two kits I liked the original kit much better myself. I think that 3 pounds of DME made the Coopers Irish stout kit way too malty. But I guess it depends on your taste preference.
 
Any word on how this turned out?

I am preparing to start a Munton's Connoisseur Export Stout and am looking for recommendations. The kit makes 6 gallons, but planning on backing it down to 5.

It also calls to add 1kg of sugar, but am debating adding 3lb DME instead. Not quite sure what to expect. I like the maltiness, but not quite sure what sugar would offer to it (I hear it 'dries' it out, but still not quite what that means...I'm new). In the end, I love stouts, but and I want to make sure that I spend the next 7 weeks preparing a good one.
 
Any word on how this turned out?

I am preparing to start a Munton's Connoisseur Export Stout and am looking for recommendations. The kit makes 6 gallons, but planning on backing it down to 5.

It also calls to add 1kg of sugar, but am debating adding 3lb DME instead. Not quite sure what to expect. I like the maltiness, but not quite sure what sugar would offer to it (I hear it 'dries' it out, but still not quite what that means...I'm new). In the end, I love stouts, but and I want to make sure that I spend the next 7 weeks preparing a good one.

+1, I'd like to hear how it turned out.

I have a Cooper's OS Stout on the go, can +1.3 KG LME topped up to 16 Litres. Been fermenting for 5 days. Curious what I should expect for an FG, sticky thermometer shows 58*-60*, used 2-7g packs of Cooper's yeast.
 
+1, I'd like to hear how it turned out.

I have a Cooper's OS Stout on the go, can +1.3 KG LME topped up to 16 Litres. Been fermenting for 5 days. Curious what I should expect for an FG, sticky thermometer shows 58*-60*, used 2-7g packs of Cooper's yeast.

Just curious, what was your OG? I made the Coopers Stout on this past Sunday. I went with the Coopers HME can and added three pounds of dark DME instead of sugar. I also subbed out the Coopers yeast for Wyeast Slap Pack 1084 Irish Ale. I'm fermenting in a 6.5 gallon fermenter, and after about 24 hours it just started going crazy for about 48 hours, then subsided to just a bubble every few seconds for another day or two. My OG was 1.048 on it. My sticky thermometer is showing around 66-68 degrees.
 
Just curious, what was your OG? I made the Coopers Stout on this past Sunday. I went with the Coopers HME can and added three pounds of dark DME instead of sugar. I also subbed out the Coopers yeast for Wyeast Slap Pack 1084 Irish Ale. I'm fermenting in a 6.5 gallon fermenter, and after about 24 hours it just started going crazy for about 48 hours, then subsided to just a bubble every few seconds for another day or two. My OG was 1.048 on it. My sticky thermometer is showing around 66-68 degrees.

Mad at myself because I can't find where I recorded it. It was in the 1.050-1.060 range. I was surprised I could get a legit looking reading, never been able to do that before. I'm only brewing 16L, so I think mine would be a bit higher than yours....
 
Mad at myself because I can't find where I recorded it. It was in the 1.050-1.060 range. I was surprised I could get a legit looking reading, never been able to do that before. I'm only brewing 16L, so I think mine would be a bit higher than yours....

Yeah that makes sense, mine is around 5.5 US gallons. I was just curious. I'd like to know how yours turns out. I'll be racking part of mine to a secondary next weekend and dry hopping with cacao nibs and adding some lactose as well and bottling the rest. Probably gonna bottle two gallons and do the additions to the other 3-3.5.
 
Yeah that makes sense, mine is around 5.5 US gallons. I was just curious. I'd like to know how yours turns out. I'll be racking part of mine to a secondary next weekend and dry hopping with cacao nibs and adding some lactose as well and bottling the rest. Probably gonna bottle two gallons and do the additions to the other 3-3.5.

When I took my sample it was a little too sweet to start, but seemed to have that nice, dry, coffee/stout finish that I was hoping for.

My stout drinking experience is A LOT of Guinness Pub Draught (my "session beer" for a year about a year a couple of years ago, a little Guinness Extra Stout (licensed and brewed in Halifax NS), and a handful of local craft brew stouts.
 
I'm a big stout fan, but not a huge Guinness fan myself. I do drink a lot of different craft stouts, especially local ones though. I'm pretty anxious to see how this one turns out and what it's like.
 
I tested my gravity today and I was around 1.012. I don't see it going much lower that. From what I've read, a lot of people have their Coopers Stouts finishing around 1.018 or so. If the 1.012 holds up, I'll be looking at a 4.9% ABV, which is about what I was looking for.
 
I just bottled mine today after 3 days at 1.016. I think I had it in primary for 2 weeks. Want it carbed for the 17th of March.
 
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