To All Scotch Drinkers

I have a friend who is a wine and scotch drinker. Not saying that he thinks low of beer, but he probably hasn't had the right one yet (that's what I tell everyone who thinks of beer as a low drink). He drinks very high end stuff and I am trying to convince him that I can brew a beer that he can, at the very least, enjoy. I am not trying to take over his $200 wines and $100 scotches, but a little competion is always good. Any suggestions? I was thinking of messing around with a rauchbier recipe and tweaking it to complement a scotch flavor since you need to match the smokiness. Also probably keep the hop profile medium with enough herbal to match the peaty flavor most scotches contain. Let me know your thoughts, and if you have converted anyone as well!

does he drink heavy peat scotches?

give him ommegang Cup o Kyndness

or three philosophers.

hell, just buy him The End of History or Utopia

Old Ale with peat smoked malt? upwards of 10% Abv...

KBS clone

or a scottish wee heavy, or maybe a good english barleywine

I would not try to duplicate the experience of wine or scotch by making a beer that competes head on with those drinks. I'd be more inclined to go with a hoppy well made American beer. My last fully finished beer was a Green Flash West Coast IPA clone, crystal clear, smooth, hoppy and perfectly balanced bitterness. Not to be confused with Scotch or Wine, which I like both of anyway.

I have some friends who don't like beer, except for what I brew. I did not attempt to convert them however as I brew what I like.

Sounds like your friend enjoys sipping on a fine beverage whether it be scotch or wine. I would go with a high alcohol beer that can be sipped and enjoyed in a tulip or a snifter. I like the English Barleywine idea or the wee heavy.

If you are trying to give him something that will supplement his scotch and wine, I would go with something that has a smoky or oakey taste...something he can relate to.

When presenting the beer to him, present it in a way that makes it seem high class like a nice bottle of wine. Serve it in the right glass and at the right temperature. And explain to him what he is drinking and why it is different from a can of PBR.

I work at a high end wine bar and we serve a lot of bombers to people who do not necessarily like wine. We serve them in the same way we would serve a bottle of wine and they love it. Everyone at the table becomes intrigued by the beer. Its a lot more effective than putting a pint glass on the table and having them pour it themselves.

samc said:

I would not try to duplicate the experience of wine or scotch by making a beer that competes head on with those drinks.

Click to expand...

I am a wine drinker myself (mostly cabernet and zinfindel), and love me some $100 single malt scotches. You are not going to win at trying to match those. where you will win, and the reason that I got back into home brewing is with the Trappist-style beers. If you can recreate a St. Bernadus ABT 12, a Chimay Blue, or a Westvleteren Triple, all around 9-10% ABV, you will convince him. Or at least it convinced me. The St. Bernardus is the best beer I have ever tasted.

knelson said:

We serve them in the same way we would serve a bottle of wine and they love it. Everyone at the table becomes intrigued by the beer. Its a lot more effective than putting a pint glass on the table and having them pour it themselves.

Click to expand...

If you go this route, bottle it in a belgian 750ml bottle with corks and baskets and serve it in a footed glass. Presentation is a big part of the experience.

This was an awesome beer. Rich and malty with a slight hint of smoke. Very smooth...almost creamy. A good, complex sipping beer.

Recipe: BierMunchers Sleeping Giant Scottish Ale
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Style: Scottish Export 80/-
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 12.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.84 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 15.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
19.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Smoked Malt (not peat smoked) (9.0 SRM)
0.40 lb Roasted Barley (400.0 SRM)
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (50 min)
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (20 min)

mmm... Scotch. I love Scotch and fine wine as well and I think all the suggestions above are great. Wee Heavy, Barleywine, RIS, and Trappist Ales all sound like winners. They are very complex and quite delicious in their own right. A cask conditioned Wee Heavy or Barleywine served through a beer engine maybe the ticket. Low carbonation and warmer than "normal" beers, it may expand his horizons.

Give him a 7 year old World Wide Stout. I just drank one that was given to me as a wedding gift and it was awesome! Should have seen the look on my wife's face when my best friend gave me a 4 pack of that and 120 for MY wedding gift, priceless!

Brew him a Belgian beer, wine drinkers love that ****. Seriously! There is a high end wine store next to my trailer in DE and they poo poo beer but sell the really expensive ones. Of course I go there sometimes to get a high end craft beer once in a while.

So a few months ago I wnet in looking for a decent IIPA and these snobs poured me a Belgian pale ale of some sort. With this sort of superior expectant smile on his face the wine drinking guy goes, now THATS a beer! As though Belgium beers were new and as though he finally found a beer worthy of his high end wine tastes. I mde sure not to gag (I hate sweet fizzy beer) and agreed with him. Now THATS a beer I said and left.

Wine types LOVE Belgian beers, and I am reasonably sure it is because they taste pretty close to sparkling wine with all that clove and spice and funk and fizz - not to mention the high alcohol content. Actually now that I am thinking it I believe Belgian beers really *are* wine!

stevedasleeve said:

Brew him a Belgian beer, wine drinkers love that ****. Seriously!

Click to expand...

Yeah, we really do

Oak Aged Yeti Imperial Stout gets my vote. It's very complex with oak, vanilla, chocolatey/coffee roasted malt, and hops.

bwomp313 said:

or a scottish wee heavy, or maybe a good english barleywine

Click to expand...

+1 on the barleywine, liquid heaven!

I'm a scotch, bourbon, beer guy myself with a collection of around 40 bottles between the two spirits. I'm also a beer fan. I've found over the years that scotch and wine carry the highest rate of snobbery. Nothing bad with snobbery, just saying that I don't know if I would even worry about trying to convince him. Let him miss out on the finer things in life that aren't 100+ a bottle. I drink anything and everything for different reasons from bud light (ya ya ya i know, i still like it when i'm hot and sweaty) all the way up to a johnny blue and even up to a bottle of Louis XIII that resides in my cabinet for very special occasions.

Let him enjoy what he wants, there may be no saving him. (I don't know your friend, just other scotch snobs) FYI, my first home brew is bubbling away in the fermentor as we speak.

Here's my lil stash. This pic is outdated as the cabinet is now stained and a lil more full

Turk10mm said:

I'm a scotch, bourbon, beer guy myself with a collection of around 40 bottles between the two spirits. I'm also a beer fan. I've found over the years that scotch and wine carry the highest rate of snobbery. Nothing bad with snobbery, just saying that I don't know if I would even worry about trying to convince him. Let him miss out on the finer things in life that aren't 100+ a bottle. I drink anything and everything for different reasons from bud light (ya ya ya i know, i still like it when i'm hot and sweaty) all the way up to a johnny blue and even up to a bottle of Louis XIII that resides in my cabinet for very special occasions.

Let him enjoy what he wants, there may be no saving him. (I don't know your friend, just other scotch snobs) FYI, my first home brew is bubbling away in the fermentor as we speak.

Here's my lil stash. This pic is outdated as the cabinet is now stained and a lil more full

Click to expand...

I see Glenfiddich, we can be friends!

Buy him something rather than brewing it, then you're only in it for very little time, effort, and money.
My wine and scotch drinking friends have been swayed to beer by sour beers, you could try a Rodenbach Grand Cru or something like that.

rjwhite41 said:

I see Glenfiddich, we can be friends!

Click to expand...

Hah, i think there's a few in there. There's actually an original bottle of Rum cask finished 21yo in there from before the switch to Bermuda and Jamaican rum casks. There's only a few swallows of that left. I sure wish they hadn't made the switch cause its some of the best drinking whisky ever made, albeit difficult to get in the US due to the cask country of origin.

A connoisseur will drink what is good. A snob will judge what does not meet the standard he has set that makes him feel superior to another.
I would not waste your time trying to woo a guy who, according to your post, chooses to spend $150-$175 more than necessary on a good bottle of wine.

If your friend truly enjoys booze, he will like beer as much as he wants you to think he likes scotch and wine.

Trying to match the art of scotch by throwing some smoked malt in the mash will not work.

I second the idea of buying commercial examples of stuff you like. Pour him a taste without fanfare and you will find out what he likes.

j a lees harvest. i think is the name.
thats a good complex beer that i can drink at room temp and appreciate the same way i can a scotch.
also stone smoked porter.
belgian strongs?
i dont think its so much the beer. its the experience.
challenge him to taste the fruit notes, or the caramel etc in beer.

pdxal said:

Buy him something rather than brewing it, then you're only in it for very little time, effort, and money.
My wine and scotch drinking friends have been swayed to beer by sour beers, you could try a Rodenbach Grand Cru or something like that.

Click to expand...

Bingo. Flanders ftw.

ChefJoeR said:

I have a friend who is a wine and scotch drinker. Not saying that he thinks low of beer, but he probably hasn't had the right one yet (that's what I tell everyone who thinks of beer as a low drink). He drinks very high end stuff and I am trying to convince him that I can brew a beer that he can, at the very least, enjoy. I am not trying to take over his $200 wines and $100 scotches, but a little competion is always good. Any suggestions? I was thinking of messing around with a rauchbier recipe and tweaking it to complement a scotch flavor since you need to match the smokiness. Also probably keep the hop profile medium with enough herbal to match the peaty flavor most scotches contain. Let me know your thoughts, and if you have converted anyone as well!

Click to expand...

I drink all of the above, regularly. While I'm useless at telling you what to brew for him if he can't appreciate a swig of Stone Guardian I would question his pallete.

duskb said:

I drink all of the above, regularly. While I'm useless at telling you what to brew for him if he can't appreciate a swig of Stone Guardian I would question his pallete.

Click to expand...

Scratch that, I guess Stone no longer makes this Barley wine...

Bastards...I had no idea it was a one off.

philrose said:

Bingo. Flanders ftw.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Although if you can get your hands on Lost Abbey's Angel Share, you're sure to convert him.

I'd say go to the store and pick up a six pack or so of different beers. Pick up a good sour beer (Hanssen Gueze or aged Orval), a good tripel (so many to pick from), maybe a Duvel, a nice English barleywine, a good old ale, and maybe a imperial stout (oak aged maybe bourbon barrel). That way he can try a few and see if anything fits his tastes.

You need to get him a good malty German lager, and not a freakin dopplebock. A well-brewed, malty beer with a little bit of mass appeal. IME, strong Belgians, Imperial anythings, barelywines, IPAs and beers of those nature turn new people off with their intensity, but you hook someone up with their first ever oktoberfest or helles and you should be golden, and the lack of a strong hop character can help relate it to scotch.

How about a Hot Scottie, a mug with hot, pre-boiled wort and add scotch to taste... I haven't had it yet but I will next week when I brew

Yuri_Rage said:

Oak Aged Yeti Imperial Stout gets my vote. It's very complex with oak, vanilla, chocolatey/coffee roasted malt, and hops.

Click to expand...

You just reminded me I have a bomber of that sitting in my fridge from our Secret Santa two years ago.

I think she should be nicely aged by now.

CaptKiRkLeS said:

How about a Hot Scottie, a mug with hot, pre-boiled wort and add scotch to taste... I haven't had it yet but I will next week when I brew

Click to expand...

Always enjoyable.

I have been away from this post for a while and, wow, thanks for the feedback guys. He drinks Dalwhinnie 15 year single highland malt. Just have to figure out how to duplicate the peatyness of it. I was going to go with a hybrid style, something along the lines of a combination of a rauchbier, barleywine and golden scotch ale. Still looking around. Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know if you can get this, but I loves me some single malt (Dalwhinnie is easily one of my favorites), and the Innis and Gunn Winter Beer nearly blew the top of my head off. Seriously, I would bet the farm on any scotch drinker being able to really appreciate it. I have never brewed a wee heavy, but this one has convinced me that I will be in the near future. If you can find it, it really is unbelievable.

I recently found a "cheap" bottle of Ardbeg Supernova (~120 ppm peat phenols). Also got the Ardbeg Uigeadail, Ardbeg 10 y.o., Laphroaig 10 y.o., and the Laphroaig Quarter Cask. All mighty tasty. For the peat comparison, consider that the Laphroiag 10 y.o. (very peaty for most folks) is ~25 ppm peat phenols and the Ardbeg 10 y.o. is ~35 ppm peat phenols. These two are considered some of the peaties scotches out there. I want to try the Bruichladdich Octomore which supposedly checks in at ~135 ppm peat phenols.

jgourd said:

I recently found a "cheap" bottle of Ardbeg Supernova (~120 ppm peat phenols). Also got the Ardbeg Uigeadail, Ardbeg 10 y.o., Laphroaig 10 y.o., and the Laphroaig Quarter Cask. All mighty tasty. For the peat comparison, consider that the Laphroiag 10 y.o. (very peaty for most folks) is ~25 ppm peat phenols and the Ardbeg 10 y.o. is ~35 ppm peat phenols. These two are considered some of the peaties scotches out there. I want to try the Bruichladdich Octomore which supposedly checks in at ~135 ppm peat phenols.

Click to expand...

yikes, I keep a bottle of the ardbeg 10 year old around, and there are very few people who seem able to appreciate that through the peatiness, I could not imagine what the supernova would be like. As a bit of an aside, I have found that adding just a few drops of that to a mid-grade rye whisky really adds some character to an otherwise somewhat one dimensional drink. I wouldn't try that with cheap rye though, and I can't imagine the cheap booze hangover would be worth it anyway. Anyway, sorry for the hijack, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

cklages said:

yikes, I keep a bottle of the ardbeg 10 year old around, and there are very few people who seem able to appreciate that through the peatiness, I could not imagine what the supernova would be like. As a bit of an aside, I have found that adding just a few drops of that to a mid-grade rye whisky really adds some character to an otherwise somewhat one dimensional drink. I wouldn't try that with cheap rye though, and I can't imagine the cheap booze hangover would be worth it anyway. Anyway, sorry for the hijack, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Click to expand...

OK sorry also and no more hijacking... But the Supernova turns out to be very good through the peat. Nice malty notes with hints of seaweed and salt. It's surprisingly smooth and not the peat bomb it's made out to be.