Carbonation with Kraeusen - How-To

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Kaiser

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I was asked to write a How-To for the use of Kraeusen to carbonate beer. But I want to state that this is an advanced technique and you should not worry about it at all if you are still trying to dial in your basic process.

Besides corn sugar and DME, beer can also be carbonated with unfermented or actively fermenting wort. This procedure is usually used by breweries that bottle ferment their beers. And the reason for this is simple: freshly fermenting wort is readily available in a brewery. It also has several advantaged over the priming corn sugar/DME:

- the flavor of your beer will not be changed, since you are adding part of the original wort (same IBUs, same malt profile, etc.)
- the apparent OG will not be changed. (if you use a highly concentrated sugar solution your FG and ABV will be as if the beer had a 2-3 GU higher OG)
- in the case of Kraeusening fresh and healthy yeast is added which does a better job in scrubbing the beer of O2 and off-flavors. In this case you can also use your bottles as a yeast bank since it is not the least flocculant yeast that is at the bottom of those bottles
- carbonation times will also be more predictable if you add fresh yeast
- you will have more beer to bottle and can get 5gal out of using a 5 gal carboy for fermentation.

The main disadvantage is the added complexity.

If you want to prime with Speise (aka. gyle), you want to keep some of the original wort from the brew day. Some brewers just keep it in a jar in the fridge, but I like to store mine in the freezer. This way I don't have to worry about something growing in there for the next 3 weeks that it takes until I bottle. I also don't worry about sanitation when I collect the gyle. As shown in the whirlpool How-to, I get most of it by filtering the hot-break that is left in the kettle through a paper towel. This takes some time.

Once I need it, I will take the gyle from the freezer, add a little water to compensate for the boil-off and boil it for 10-15 min. This will get it sanitized and I can use it after it has been chilled (either overnight or in an ice bath). You don't have to chill it if you plan to bottle w/o additional yeast.

The amount of gyle needed for a batch can be calculated with this formula

Quarts of gyle = (12 x gallons of wort) / (specific gravity - 1)(1000)

(source: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/faq/bottling_and_kegging_faq.asp)

I requested that a more precise calculation of this (one that accounts for attenuation and already existing CO2 in the beer) is added to BeerSmith.

If you don't add new yeast, the carbonation time should be similar to the use of DME for priming.

In order to bottle with Kraeusen you need to do a little more. Prepare a starter with the calculated amount of gyle plus another pint of gyle. Aerate it and pitch this starter with the yeast you want to use for bottling. There are some advantages of actually using a different yeast that you fermented with. I have heard that some brewers actually bottle lagers with ale yeast. Or you want to choose a very flocculant strain. According to White Labs, no significant amount of flavor will be produced by the yeast used for bottling and ale yeasts work faster too. I usually harvest yeast from the primary and will use the same yeast for bottling.

You want to be ready to bottle when the starter is actively fermenting (at high Kraeusen) but hasn't fermented lots of the sugars yet. The CO2 should end up in the bottle and not in the atmosphere. Once you are ready to bottle, you want to add the desired amount of that starter (see formula above) to your bottling bucket. If you think it has been fermenting for a while already, you can add a little more. Here is the tricky part. You don't really want to get the yeast sediment that is at the bottom of the starter, only the healthy yeast that is currently in suspension is necessary. That's why I suggested adding another pint of gyle when making the starter. Leave that in there and try to pour only once, as tilting it back up will get a lot of that yeast in suspension.

Now add your beer, stir and bottle as usual. Carbonation will be complete in 5-7 days. From my experience there will not be more yeast sediment than using conventional priming methods. But I also keep my secondaries cold (~50F for ales) which causes more of the original yeast to settle out.

The same method is used for carbonating my lagers in a corny keg before I start lagering. But there I just make sure that enough Speise is added to get above the desired CO2 level. I then monitor the pressure build-up and blow-off any excess CO2. This has the advantage of adding fresh and healthy yeast before the lagering is done. Finally I rack it off all the yeast into a serving keg.


Is all this extra work worth the effort?
Every brewer has to decide this for himself. Maybe some day I will do a direct comparison between the same batch of beer carbonated with corn sugar, DME and Kraeusen.

Kai
 
Good God and all that is Holy with Beer.
How does a thread like this get looked at 486 times over the course of 16 months without comment.

Bravo Kai!
 
It's better for the Wiki than a sticky. (Hey, I'm a poet).

I'm glad to know that great post is here. One of these days, I'll have to try the procedure.


TL
 
maybe I was doing it wrong, but I didnt think it was more complex.
Here was what I was doing and maybe it is wrong, and that would NOT surprise me, but I always had good results.

measured the amount of gyle that would be needed (brewing calc from a comp program)
kept it in the fridge.
when time to bottle, took it out re-heated
added to beer, bottled.
I didnt add yeast or anything, never got a flat beer.

It doesnt seem more complex, and it is saving money by not having to buy corn sugar.

Like I said though, I am probably missing something, and would love to know.
Josh
 
Very cool, I just finished reading a book on Geueze and thought that idea of krausening was great, but didn't know how to do it work normal beers. Now I know. =)

-D
 
bump.jpg


bump'd due to valuable info
 
Thanks for the bump.

I whipped up a quick excel calculator for spiesegabe/kräusening. It uses the formula found here.

I suggest not using the formula that he lists there. It seems rather crude and when I ran his numbers, I got a final beer carbonation of 1.7 volumes.

I have an updated set of articles on my webpage:

* Kraeusening
* calculating sugar additions
* carbonation calculator

The carbonation calculator works for Speise, Kraeusen, residual extract and sugar. There is a typo in the first input description (it should read “Starting graity of beer wort”) but the formula works. Give it a try and maybe run some numbers that worked for you just to sanity check the result.

Kai
 
Well done Kai!

To Yeast or not to Yeast, that is the question. Some folks I talked to do and others do not. I am curious have you success with either using yeast or not or do you strictly use yeast from the primary?

WW
 
Heres a hypothetical question. What if your beer turned out to be under hopped? Could you take your gyle, boil it with the appropriate amount of hops and then add it back at bottling time? This would be just far a bittering addition, so I suppose you would have to boil it for longer than just 10 min or so. Anyone have any experience doing this?
 
To Yeast or not to Yeast, that is the question. Some folks I talked to do and others do not. I am curious have you success with either using yeast or not or do you strictly use yeast from the primary?

I tend to use yeast from the primary but I have also used other yeasts. My Alt, for example, is bottled with lager yeast. This makes carbonating in a cool basement easier.

Heres a hypothetical question. What if your beer turned out to be under hopped? Could you take your gyle, boil it with the appropriate amount of hops and then add it back at bottling time? This would be just far a bittering addition, so I suppose you would have to boil it for longer than just 10 min or so. Anyone have any experience doing this?

I have done this when said Alt turned out underhopped. Just add hops to gyle boil it for a while.

Kai
 
So I cracked into my latest issue of Zymurgy, and who do I see but the f-ing Kaiser! Is this the first time you've written in Zym? You made mention that the calculations can be easily put into a spreadsheet, and then I look at one of your posts and you have a link to a spreadsheet on your website. I'm just all around getting giddy. Anyway, I just wanted to say you're awesome for all of the knowledge you've given to me personally, and congrats for writing in the mag-the best article in the issue.

I do have a question however.

In the article, you mention speise and krausen both, in the beginning, and then towards the end you mention speise again. It seems that you lean a little towards krausening rather than using speise. Is there a specific advantage to this? Using speise seems easier, but in my head I seem to feel that krausening would be better because of the active fermentation that's occurring, eliminating lag time.

Thanks Kai! Kickass job!

ps-just saw a vid of you decoction mashing-I think I got the courage now to swim in the deep waters-thanks!
 
Quick question - I'm under the impression it takes a given amount of beer less sugar to attain the same carb level in a keg versus bottles - is this correct? If so, does the same principle apply to using speise to carbonate? All the calculators i'm seeing don't account for kegging vs bottling.
 
Quick question - I'm under the impression it takes a given amount of beer less sugar to attain the same carb level in a keg versus bottles - is this correct? If so, does the same principle apply to using speise to carbonate? All the calculators i'm seeing don't account for kegging vs bottling.

From my understanding you get the same vol's of carb in a keg vs bottling with the same amount of fermentable sugars. At that point it's just "pushing" the beer , with the same said vol's of CO2, using 10 psi or so. I could be wrong. I oftentimes am.
 
Good day All!
Rather new brewer here, done a few extracts, just started with all-grain, simple equipment, etc. I'm still getting to know the theories of brewing and the specifics of the chemistry. I'm going to try kraeusening my latest IPA; the gyle is in the 'fridge.

My question is: my calculations, as the formula goes, of course took into account the amount of wort after the boil, almost exactly 3 gallons. Now that the primary is done, after racking, leaving the trub behind, etc, I'm down to maybe 2 1/3 gallons. Should I be worried about bombs due to the "new" ratio of gyle/beer?
 
GREAT READ!

This is first time I've heard of this method and I just brewed a Bav. Hefe that's almost done fermenting the in the primary. So needless to say this sucks that I can't try this method right away. This is a great way to increase efficiency (not brewing efficiency) and even save a little dough. Thanks for the great write up Kai, I can't wait to try this on my next beer.

Cheers!


Kevin
 
Bumping to ask a few questions as I've been thinking about trying this:

1) When using the posted formula of (12 x gallons of wort) / (specific gravity - 1)(1000) = quarts of gyle, are you inputting OG or FG for specific gravity? When I run the numbers for a sample 5 gallon batch I get:
(12 x 5) / (1.045 - 1)(1000) = 1.33qts using OG &
(12 x 5) / (1.012 - 1)(1000) = 5qts using FG


2) How do you account for targeting different volumes of CO2?

Thanks.
 
Bumping to ask a few questions as I've been thinking about trying this:

1) When using the posted formula of (12 x gallons of wort) / (specific gravity - 1)(1000) = quarts of gyle, are you inputting OG or FG for specific gravity? When I run the numbers for a sample 5 gallon batch I get:
(12 x 5) / (1.045 - 1)(1000) = 1.33qts using OG &
(12 x 5) / (1.012 - 1)(1000) = 5qts using FG


2) How do you account for targeting different volumes of CO2?

Thanks.


KAI's already corrected this in one of his earlier posts.

Thanks for the bump.



I suggest not using the formula that he lists there. It seems rather crude and when I ran his numbers, I got a final beer carbonation of 1.7 volumes.

I have an updated set of articles on my webpage:

* Kraeusening
* calculating sugar additions
* carbonation calculator

The carbonation calculator works for Speise, Kraeusen, residual extract and sugar. There is a typo in the first input description (it should read “Starting graity of beer wort”) but the formula works. Give it a try and maybe run some numbers that worked for you just to sanity check the result.

Kai
 
Dammit, I knew I read that. I read the thread, thought that I saw a correction and then skimmed it before posting. Thanks for pointing that out.

But what I'm not seeing is how to determine the volume of CO2. Am I missing that?
When I use DME, corn or table sugar I use this calculator: TastyBrew.com | Homebrewing Calculators | Botting Priming Calculator

But once you determine the amount of gyle you need, how do you know level of CO2 that will carb to? Am I just missing this somehow?

Appreciate the help -
 
The amount of gyle is already calculated, that is what is going to carbonate the beer. Add it to your bottling bucket and bottle it up.
 
BigTuna, I understand that I'm calculating the amount of gyle to add. What I'm trying to get at (maybe I'm not making it clear) is the volumes of CO2 that amount of gyle will produce.

For example:
I want to carb a hef and target 3.0 volumes of CO2
I want to carb a brown ale and target 2.0 voumes of CO2

How/where do I account for this when calculating the amount of gyle?
 
BigTuna, I understand that I'm calculating the amount of gyle to add. What I'm trying to get at (maybe I'm not making it clear) is the volumes of CO2 that amount of gyle will produce.

For example:
I want to carb a hef and target 3.0 volumes of CO2
I want to carb a brown ale and target 2.0 voumes of CO2

How/where do I account for this when calculating the amount of gyle?

Use Kai's spreadsheet, http://braukaiser.com/documents/Kaiser_carbonation_calculator_metric.xls adjust the amount of speise to get the wanted volumes.
 
The information on kraeusening is top notch. I kraeusen and use a spunding valve on my kegs to get the desired PSI. I feel like Kaiser's calculations are specific to bottling, and that kraeusening a keg requires less fermentables (maybe 50% less). I'm experimenting with this now, but I was hoping somebody might already have the answer.

Again, Kaiser's information is awesome.

Cheers,
Robert
 
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