What Kind of Brew System Should I Construct?

So I am at the point right now where I'm tired of having a completely unpredictable brew day. It seems that I'm constantly making these makeshift assemblies during the brew day simply because I don't have a designated brewing area and I don't have a designated brewing system. So I'm researching what type of system I would like to construct. I'm not looking to make an eye candy brewing system just complete functionality. My questions are rather open ended, I'm simply looking for advice and experiences that others have gained.

1. My first and most pivotal question, electric or gas? Brewing in the garage with the garage door open for ventilation got kind of old last winter. I'm thinking an all electric setup like The Pols would be nice.

2. What would be the disadvantages of an all electric setup? Any advantages besides no propane expenses and no ventilation needed?

3. I'm thinking a HERMs system for simply wort clarity purposes and repeatability with temperatures. Any advice?

If you have time to be patient, electric is fine. Do you have a 220V circuit in your garage?

I hate the "what is best for me" threads... because, none of us have any idea what you value in your brew day.

#1. electric is nice, IMHO there is no drawback except you NEED to know how to wire things. Oh, and you need a 240VAC circuit that is AT LEAST 30A in your garage brew area. It is quiet, clean and very controllable.

#2. HERMS is good, so is RIMS... the plus to HERMS is that your HLT is also your HERMS HEX which means you arent running a RIMS heater AND an HLT heater during the brew session (more efficient)

#3. electric is EASY to control... controlling gas with valves and pilots is much more complex IMHO

#4. electric is much cheaper to operate... it costs me $1.12 in electricity to brew a beer on my system

#5. no gas to buy, store, or use (against code) in your garage


There have been so many electric rigs built on HBT, all of the info and or expertise you would need to finish this project is at your finger tips

I have one just a few feet away threw an unfinished framing wall with some insulation. I can easily tap into it for brewing with an ~8 foot cord. I'm not sure what lengths are standard for a 240V cord but this is what I have as of now.

Is electric really that much slower than NG/propane system for a 5 gallons. Just going off of what The Pol says heis only slow time is heating up the initial 10 gallons of HLT water which takes 90 minutes. After this it seems that an all electric HERMS would be just as quick as any other system. No?

Hmm I'm not sure what the amperage rating is for the 240 my dryer is running off of. I'll have to check.

its not true that you dont need ventilation with electric
all that boil off has to go somewhere.
it will condence and make everythign sweat and get damp
that makes mold and mildew
you still need ventilation

Scut_Monkey said:

I have one just threw just a few feet away threw an unfinished framing wall with some insulation. I can easily tap into it for brewing with an ~8 foot cord. I'm not sure what lengths are standard for a 240V cord but this is what I have as of now.

Is electric really that much slower than NG/propane system for a 5 gallons. Just going off of what The Pol says heis only slow time is heating up the initial 10 gallons of HLT water which takes 90 minutes. After this it seems that an all electric HERMS would be just as quick as any other system. No?

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Yes, it is just as fast as a NG or LP system. The only time is the 90 minute heat up for the HLT initial volume. Of course you can shorten the time with a larger element, though some who have used them wish they had used something smaller.

I fill my HLT the night before and set the temp. I go to bed... when I wake up it is ready to mash in when I am ready. No fuss, no oversight

oh and i plumb NG in to my brew house and it is so wonderfull
fast clean cheap heat.

Scut_Monkey said:

Hmm I'm not sure what the amperage rating is for the 240 my dryer is running off of. I'll have to check.

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Your dryer should he 30A and up... maybe even 50A

The Pol said:

Yes, it is just as fast as a NG or LP system. The only time is the 90 minute heat up for the HLT initial volume. Of course you can shorten the time with a larger element, though some who have used them wish they had used something smaller.

I fill my HLT the night before and set the temp. I go to bed... when I wake up it is ready to mash in when I am ready. No fuss, no oversight

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From my viewpoint this is not really a downfall because you aren't wasting your time playing with yourself while you're waiting for the water to heat up. You can go get breakfast while it heats up. If it took a long time for the brew kettle to heat up after mashing that would be another thing.

Clayton said:

oh and i plumb NG in to my brew house and it is so wonderfull
fast clean cheap heat.

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I do have a NG hook up about 12 feet away and I can easily plumb into it. I have debated this route as well but like I said I would rather brew with comfort in the heat than with the garage door open. I suppose I could find a way to ventilate the garage but it would include putting a vent into my garage door which would look less than stellar.

I was not aware that you need ventilation with an all electric brew setup. Is this indeed true?

The Pol said:

Yes, it is just as fast as a NG or LP system. The only time is the 90 minute heat up for the HLT initial volume.

I fill my HLT the night before and set the temp. I go to bed... when I wake up it is ready to mash in when I am ready. No fuss, no oversight

Click to expand...

how is it just as fast? i have a small NG burner and it is 130,000 btu
thats 38,100 watt or 173 amps
you got a 170 amp water heater? lol

and leaveing it running all night is not efficient and a waste of energe
but maybe a necessity for useing a less powerfull method

Just checked my dryer outlet and it is indeed rated at 30A. The Pol, I can't remember what are the power requirements for your system for everything? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Clayton said:

how is it just as fast? i have a small NG burner and it is 130,000 btu
thats 38,100 watt or 173 amps
you got a 170 amp water heater? lol

and leaveing it running all night is not efficient and a waste of energe
but maybe a necessity for useing a less powerfull method

Click to expand...

Like I said in my post, aside from the 90 minutes to heat the HLT, it is just as fast. LOL all you want, but that is what I stated.

My HLT is a cooler as well, and with a temp controlled HLT, once it is heated, the element clicks on maybe twice an hour to maintain temp. I could just as easily heat it in the morning, but I can turn it on at night so that I can brew when I am ready.

It is more eff. than using LP. I used about 4 pounds of LP per brew before the electric conversion. In my area that is about $4.50 for LP per session, $1.12 is less than this.

Here is a breakdown for those not running electric.

A 10 gallon HLT will heat at 1F per minute when full using only a 1500W element.
A BK with a 5500W element will reach a boil in 10 minutes from 155F with a volume of 8 gallons

The HLT for this reason takes 90-100 minutes to get heated initially, from this point the element size no longer matters when speaking in terms of time.

Scut_Monkey said:

Just checked my dryer outlet and it is indeed rated at 30A. The Pol, I can't remember what are the power requirements for your system for everything? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

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For my system, the requirement is 30A, you will not be over 80% of that when it is powered up and running at max load.

a 30amp is a max of 6600 watts or 22,520 btu

in my area Ng is much cheaper to heat water with than electric
so i guess it just depends on what you have access to

also you need to think about if you are going to do 10 gal batches?
imho electric is not pratical at all for larger volumes.
last year I jumped up to a 10 gal system and love it , its the same work as makeing 5 gal
but you get 10 and of cource you can do smaller batches too

So something that just popped in my head. I hate cooking with electric because it is so slow and hard to adjust on the fly. Is this true as well when brewing with electricity? Is it hard to adjust the boil of your brew kettle with an electric coil?

Clayton said:

a 30amp is a max of 6600 watts or 22,520 btu

in my area Ng is much cheaper to heat water with than electric
so i guess it just depends on what you have access to

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You cannot directly compare gas BTUs to electric BTUs for one reason. When I ran my propane burner, it produced many more BTUs than my 5500W element, BUT... it also heated my garage to 95F in the middle of winter. Why, wasted BTUs...

With electric, you are producing fewer BTUs, but you are applying them directly to the wort that you are boiling. A 5500W element will boil off 1.5 gallons/hour in an 8 gallon boil at 70% power, this is only 3,850 watts.

Electric doesnt waste as many BTUs by heating the ambient air around the brew rig, which is why with 5500W you can reach a boil so quickly, even though your BTU output is so low.

well most people dont "adjust" it its just on or off.
you would need a rheostat rated at 220v 30amp to control
the element and make it run lower that full blast

Clayton said:

also you need to think about if you are going to do 10 gal batches?
imho electric is not pratical at all for larger volumes.
last year I jumped up to a 10 gal system and love it , its the same work as makeing 5 gal
but you get 10 and of cource you can do smaller batches too

Click to expand...

Honestly I don't really have much interest in doing a 10 gallon batch. Trust me I fully understand that it's much more time efficient and I would love to make 10 gallons at a time but I would never drink it fast enough. My friends/family are simply BMC drinkers or they don't drink beer at all. It takes me about 3-5 months to kill a 5 gal batch.

Scut_Monkey said:

So something that just popped in my head. I hate cooking with electric because it is so slow and hard to adjust on the fly. Is this true as well when brewing with electricity? Is it hard to adjust the boil of your brew kettle with an electric coil?

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It is easy. You have to use a PID and SSR to control the BK, you just dial in the % output. I have already done that for you.

100% to achieve boil
70% to maintian a boil off of about 1.5 gal/hour
OR less if you do not wish to boil off as much.

See, you can dial in your boil off and match the # of BTUs going into the boil precisely with each brew. No eyeballing the gas valve, or worring about wind blowing your flame etc.

Controlling the boil is extremely easy, and you have precise control of the boil, you can repeat it exactly each time

must be nice, my friends and fam drink my home brew to fast.

you should try a nice cream-blonde ale for your bcm drinkers
i think you both will be suprized
biermuncher has 2 nice ones listed

Clayton said:

well most people dont "adjust" it its just on or off.
you would need a rheostat rated at 220v 30amp to control
the element and make it run lower that full blast

Click to expand...

Good luck finding a rheostat that will handle 5500W. 30A isnt the issue, it is the wattage.

This is why these are only controlled by PID and SSR combos

The Pol said:

It is easy. You have to use a PID and SSR to control the BK, you just dial in the % output. I have already done that for you.

100% to achieve boil
70% to maintian a boil off of about 1.5 gal/hour
OR less if you do not wish to boil off as much.

See, you can dial in your boil off and match the # of BTUs going into the boil precicesly with each brew. No eyeballing the gas valve, or worring about wind blowing your flame etc.

Controlling the boil is extremely easy, and you have precise control of the boil, you can repeat it exactly each time

Click to expand...

Nice.... You really like precision don't you The Pol!

Clayton said:

must be nice, my friends and fam drink my home brew to fast.

you should try a nice cream-blonde ale for your bcm drinkers
i think you both will be suprized
biermuncher has 2 nice ones listed

Click to expand...

I actually made Biermunchers Blonde ale and it turned out very well. Everyone that has tried it has liked it... they simply drink about 2 beers and then it's back to captain and coke or some other crap. Honestly, I wish I could blow through 10 gallons like some people because it would give me the opportunity to share with friends/family and get good feedback. It's a double edge sword I know.

I try to engineer out variables. I had an electric HLT... then I decided to go HERMS, then I decided to convert the BK to electric. This was not a planned rig, it evolved... it was just pieced together over time, when I was bored.

If you are doing 5 gallon batches on a HERMS, IMHO my design is pretty user friendly and repeatable. There are some HBTers that have built clones, ask them what they think of thiers now that they are using them.

Clayton said:

its not true that you dont need ventilation with electric
all that boil off has to go somewhere.
it will condence and make everythign sweat and get damp
that makes mold and mildew
you still need ventilation

Click to expand...

So getting back to this. I realize that water vapors are going to come off with the boil. Without ANY ventilation I can see how this will lead to very high humidity and mold growth down the road if not dealt with. I believe without any additional ventilation I can deal with the water vapors with the ventilation throughout the basement with a fan. It might actually be nice during the winter months when things are super dry from forced air heating. The only problem is I will have no way to really determine this without having built an electic boil kettle.

Just throwing around the ideas that come into my marble. :cross:

The Pol said:

I try to engineer out variables. I had an electric HLT... then I decided to go HERMS, then I decided to convert the BK to electric. This was not a planned rig, it evolved... it was just pieced together over time, when I was bored.

If you are doing 5 gallon batches on a HERMS, IMHO my design is pretty user friendly and repeatable. There are some HBTers that have built clones, ask them what they think of thiers now that they are using them.

Click to expand...

Is there anything you would do differently if you had to build your system again? Any upgrades you are considering?

Scut_Monkey said:

So getting back to this. I realize that water vapors are going to come off with the boil. Without ANY ventilation I can see how this will lead to very high humidity and mold growth down the road if not dealt with. I believe without any additional ventilation I can deal with the water vapors with the ventilation throughout the basement with a fan. It might actually be nice during the winter months when things are super dry from forced air heating. The only problem is I will have no way to really determine this without having built an electic boil kettle.

Just throwing around the ideas that come into my marble. :cross:

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No experience with this, but I crack a window in my garage, and crack the door, and I am fine. I know my home takes several gallons of water to humidify it each day in the winter (3000 sq ft)... so take that for what it is worth!

Scut_Monkey said:

Is there anything you would do differently if you had to build your system again? Any upgrades you are considering?

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I was once upgrading it every few months. I have left it alone for about 8 months now. Simple answer, no.

I have sight glasses on the HLT and MLT, silicone hoses... those were the last upgrades.

No, I think I am done. I want to keep it basic, if that makes sense. There is plenty that I COULD do to it, but it would furher complicate things and the net gain in repeatability would be nil IMHO.

I built it up just enough to improve my brew day and my beer, anything else will be overkill IMHO

Some have "upgraded" it with a larger wattage element in the HLT, but there was a design reason for the smaller element as well. It is only 7" long, allowing me to keep it submerged at all times until I sparge and empty the HLT. The larger elements have been melting as people cannot keep them submerged or forget that they left them on while mashing in.

That's good to know. I realize there are always going to be small tweaks that you would like to do such as silicon hosing.

I think you and I have rather similar needs/wants for our brewing systems. I am looking to build something simple that uncomplicates my brewing day as much as possible. However, it does have to be repeatable and something that will produce a good beer. My top priorities are repeatability, temperature control and a system that I can actually build.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

Scut_Monkey said:

That's good to know. I realize there are always going to be small tweaks that you would like to do such as silicon hosing.

I think you and I have rather similar needs/wants for our brewing systems. I am looking to build something simple that uncomplicates my brewing day as much as possible. However, it does have to be repeatable and something that will produce a good beer. My top priorities are repeatability, temperature control and a system that I can actually build.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

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No problem, this thing has been cloned by about 10 other brewers... I think a similar design would fit your needs. If you have any other questions, refer to my threads or drop me a PM.

Yeah you might have another clone on your hands in a few months. Things need to settle down first with my life. So I guess I'm stuck brewing with my crappy system (if you can call it that) for the mean time. I will most definitely be reading through your threads again and many others.

Scut_Monkey said:

Yeah you might have another clone on your hands in a few months. Things need to settle down first with my life first. So I guess I'm stuck brewing with my crappy system (if you can call it that) for the mean time. I will most definitely be reading through your threads again and many others.

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When I get my Barley Crusher mill back from repair, I will be doing a brewcast (in a couple weeks when I make it back home). You should watch and see it run, you can ask questions while I am brewing and get a feel for it.

The Pol said:

When I get my Barley Crusher mill back from repair, I will be doing a brewcast (in a couple weeks when I make it back home). You should watch and see it run, you can ask questions while I am brewing and get a feel for it.

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Totally awesome.

I love watching brewcasts to begin with. I'll have to watch for it. Not quite sure how I'll do that though. Thanks for the heads up and I very much look forward to it.