Safale S-04 in heavily late-hopped Am. IPA?

My LHBS was out of Safale S-05, so I grabbed S-04 instead. Will this work in an Americanish IPA? The 2 big differences in this brew vs. any other IPA that I've made is that I'm using Maris Otter for base malt, no bittering hops, and lots of late addition hops. I do have an American Brown with an S-05 yeast cake, so I could rack that to secondary and use that yeast after washing. Thoughts?

Here's the recipe:

7 Gallon Recipe

4 lbs. Light DME
10 lb. Maris Otter
.75 lb. Crystal 70-80L
.75 lb. Special Roast
.35 lb. Vienna

1oz. Columbus 30 min.
1oz. Centennial 30 min.
1oz. Centennial 15 min.
1oz. Simcoe 15 min.
1oz Citra 15 min.
1oz Simcoe Flameout
1oz Citra Flameout
2oz Simcoe dry hop 7ish days

Beersmith estimated IBUs: 75 (will likely be less due to no 60 min. additions)
Estimated OG: 1.072 (likely be less due to my inefficient stove top mashing "system")

Yeah I use it all the time for my American IPA's, go with S04.

It will be fine. It's not a funky Belgian yeast, or some weird Wheat yeast. It'll clear nicely, and may add a bit more fruity esters than S-05. Go with it.

Ferment it on the cool side of the range and you will have a fast & clear beer. I prefer the fresh dry yeast because I can skip the Oxygen process for the wort. With the washed yeast then I have to drag out the tank & stone, sanitize and no point for this style of beer IMO.

gannawdm said:

.35 lb. Vienna

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Pet Peave alert!

I see a lot of recipes with minuscule amounts of Vienna and Munich in them from time to time and have no idea why this is in there. Vienna is a great base malt all by itself, but its not all that different flavor-wise from normal 2-row. There's not a beer judge in the world that can detect a third of a pound of Vienna in any 5gal batch batch, let alone 7gal one with Special Roast and Crystal in it.

I think this started when someone transcribed a recipe with "CaraVienne" or "CaraMuninch" and translated them as "Vienna" and "Munich" respectively, which is incorrect.

Back on topic: S-04 is a great yeast, and not overly "Englishy" in my opinion. Use it and you'll be happy.

ghpeel said:

Pet Peave alert!

I see a lot of recipes with minuscule amounts of Vienna and Munich in them from time to time and have no idea why this is in there. Vienna is a great base malt all by itself, but its not all that different flavor-wise from normal 2-row. There's not a beer judge in the world that can detect a third of a pound of Vienna in any 5gal batch batch, let alone 7gal one with Special Roast and Crystal in it.

I think this started when someone transcribed a recipe with "CaraVienne" or "CaraMuninch" and translated them as "Vienna" and "Munich" respectively, which is incorrect.

Back on topic: S-04 is a great yeast, and not overly "Englishy" in my opinion. Use it and you'll be happy.

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It might be for a bit of color?

I agree that S04 will be great! Keep it under 66-68 degrees, though- otherwise it becomes quite a bit more estery. At 66 degrees, it's very "clean" and it leaves a clear beer behind. It's one of my favorite yeast strains for all beer styles!

DragonOrta said:

It might be for a bit of color?

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Nope, a beer made with 100% Vienna (which I've done a couple of times and highly recommend), is just slightly darker than one with 100% Pale Malt, if its any darker at all.

People use about 4oz of Chocolate malt in 5 gal batches (about the same % as the Vienna in gannawdm's recipe) in order to add some color, and Chocolate is literally 100 times the Lovibond rating for color as Vienna.

Chocolate = about 475 Lovibond.
Vienna = about 3-5 Lovibond.
Marris Otter = about 3-5 Lovibond
Munich = about 7-9 Lovibond

I ran the batch's ingredients (minus the Vienna) into Hopville.com and got a base color of 13 SRM. There's just no way a third of a point of a 3 Lovibond grain in a 7 gal batch of 13 srm beer is going to add any amount of color that the human eye can detect.

I stand by my assertion that tiny amounts of Vienna and Munich are errors that have been carried forward into beers. No doubt a lot of these beers are delicious (gannawdm's looks especially tasty), but the Vienna does absolutely nothing in this beer, and can be dropped to simplify the grain bill.

No particular reason for the Vienna. It was in the recipe given to me from my LHBS for my first APA recipe. I've been using it as a base recipe for awhile, changing things here and there. I didn't know it could be used as a base malt. I might try that.

I'm going to give the S-04 a shot. I bought a small container for an ice bath to keep the temp down. We'll see how it goes.

Use it. I do and I love it for my IPA. Just enough estery fruitiness to balance the hop load. I kicked a keg of it in under a month.

ghpeel said:

Nope, a beer made with 100% Vienna (which I've done a couple of times and highly recommend), is just slightly darker than one with 100% Pale Malt, if its any darker at all.

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Not the SRM, but the actual hue is different. It is redder.

gannawdm said:

No particular reason for the Vienna. It was in the recipe given to me from my LHBS for my first APA recipe. I've been using it as a base recipe for awhile, changing things here and there. I didn't know it could be used as a base malt. I might try that.

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Vienna is a base malt. I dont mean to hate or anything.

S-04 will accentuate the malt flavor and won't be as crisp as S-05, but IMO it creates a nice balanced IPA. The marris otter is going to add to this effect since it has a bit maltier flavor than 2-row pale. Right now I'm drinking two kegs from the same IPA batch, one fermented with S-05 and one with S-04. We had a bunch of people over a couple nights ago, and they were split 50/50 as to which one they preferred.

HHP said:

Vienna is a base malt. I dont mean to hate or anything.

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Dude. Relax. Just for you, all of my beers going forward will feature 1 oz. of Vienna.

Pet Peave alert! - Part II

and of course spelling peeve incorrectly - LOL



Taking someones post away from the original question regarding an inconsequential ingredient which adds nothing of value to the topic.


- that's must be it ?

(all in good fun?)

S04 makes awesome IPAs. I used this on my Indian Summer IPA (experimental IPA for me) and within 8 hours it was rockin away.

The first time I used this was in a Blind Faith IPA clone and it came out wonderfully.

You wont be disappointed. As a plus, S04 always puts on a good show for fermentation.

Agreed, S-04 is good for an IPA, but will give you some fruity esters if you ferment above 66 or so. IMO, S-04 also adds a bit of tartness, which will work well in an IPA, but I personally don't like this yeast for porters or stouts, which a lot of recipes recommend as a dry yeast alternative for.

I brewed an American IPA yesterday and pitched BRY 97 West Coast American Ale yeast (as I couldn't get S05).

It's been 24 hours and no sign of fermentation. I think the yeast may have been bad, or I didn't rehydrate it properly.

A friend gave it to, so I don't know how it was stored. I'm going to have to pitch more yeast..

Anyways - I have been trying to decide if i should pitch the S04 that i have or wait until tomorrow to get S05 (today is Sunday, brew shop closed).

If I wait until tomorrow i am obviously risking infection. (I thought about cooling it down - thought that would help avoid infection).

I wanted to go with the S05 because i brewed a similar IPA a few weeks ago, I made some changes to my recipe and would have liked to try it with the same, or similar yeast.

I'm starting to think that I'll just pitch the S04...

dylanphelan said:

I brewed an American IPA yesterday and pitched BRY 97 West Coast American Ale yeast (as I couldn't get S05).

It's been 24 hours and no sign of fermentation. I think the yeast may have been bad, or I didn't rehydrate it properly.

A friend gave it to, so I don't know how it was stored. I'm going to have to pitch more yeast..

Anyways - I have been trying to decide if i should pitch the S04 that i have or wait until tomorrow to get S05 (today is Sunday, brew shop closed).

If I wait until tomorrow i am obviously risking infection. (I thought about cooling it down - thought that would help avoid infection).

I wanted to go with the S05 because i brewed a similar IPA a few weeks ago, I made some changes to my recipe and would have liked to try it with the same, or similar yeast.

I'm starting to think that I'll just pitch the S04...

Click to expand...

Bry97 is a slooow starter. Just wait.