Do I have to use a Secondary?

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El Pistolero

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Q: I'm not really too concerned about the the clarity of my brews. Do I really have to use a secondary fermenter?

A: No, it's not absolutely essential to use a secondary...many home brewers make perfectly good beer without one. However, will your beer be better if you do use a secondary? ABSOLUTELY! Secondary fermentation is about clarity, but also about removing off flavors from your beer. To quote one of the masters:

During secondary fermentation, the yeast reduces or removes certain undesirable flavor components (diacetyl, acetylaldehyde, and some sulphur compounds), thereby maturing the beer into a more drinkable condition. During this latter phase of fermentation, the majority of the yeast in the beer also settles to the bottom of the fermenter, leaving the beer clear and bright. Thus, at the end of secondary fermentation, beer is generally ready to be carbonated and consumed.
The above comes from a Ray Daniels article on secondary fermentation.
 
mmditter said:
Clarity is definitely different than quality, eh?
Actually, my guess would be that the vast majority of non home brewers would say that clarity and quality are the same thing.
 
El Pistolero said:
Actually, my guess would be that the vast majority of non home brewers would say that clarity and quality are the same thing.

I dunno... I've enjoyed Hefeweizen and other "cloudy" brews for many years before seeing the light about home brewing, and it didn't take long to learn that clarity and taste were not the same thing, especially when it came to the smaller, local breweries. Granted, I'm hardly an authority on the matter but clarity and quality are certainly not one and the same. Great White is a local brew (Eureka, CA) that is almost friggin' all-white but it kicks butt nonetheless. :cross:
 
I use the slight chill haze in my beers to discourage others from drinking them: "Yeah, I know, they are just a little cloudy, huh? Maybe it is a bit of anquired taste - here's a nice MGD for ya, I will settle for this."
 
i secondary everything even dark beers...just becasue.

clarity isn't an issue for stouts but i think i get a cleaner result.
 
El Pistolero said:
Actually, my guess would be that the vast majority of non home brewers would say that clarity and quality are the same thing.


Haha, yeah. Pretty sad i would say. That bud light is so much better than a home brewed IPA, eh! :cross:
 
I use the slight chill haze in my beers to discourage others from drinking them: "Yeah, I know, they are just a little cloudy, huh? Maybe it is a bit of anquired taste - here's a nice MGD for ya, I will settle for this."

That's a good one and it sounds just eactly like something I would say to a homebrew nay-sayer!
:mug:
-Tripod
 
I quit using a secondary. When about a week of fermentation has happened and the active part is done I move the fermenter to a spot about 55 F and leave it two or three more weeks before bottling. This gets the yeast to flocculate out leaving extremely clear beer. I don't know if the "flavor improvement" of the secondary is occurring during that time or not, but I have not noticed any difference in beer taste. So while for most of our ales I don't see a compelling reason we should use a secondary, but there are a couple of good ones not to, like increased risk of infection and extra work and cleaning. Papizian's book says it doesn't matter unless you are lagering.
 
when you transfer from primary to second, do you or dont you want to airait it? as you are transfering.
 
when you transfer from primary to second, do you or dont you want to airait it? as you are transfering.

DON'T DO IT, MAN! :eek:

Only add oxygen immediately after the boil JUST before pitching the yeast. After that no splashing, shaking, bubbling, vigorous stirring, progressive thinking, etc. Otherwise you can get cwazy off flavors later.

-Tripod
 
When doing a secondary fermentation do I add more yeast?

No...you don't need to add more yeast...

But we need to clear up something in your use of the term secondary fermentation...

first off "secondary fermentation" is a misnomer and a mistake many brewers don't grasp....the secondary has nothing to do with he process of "secondary fermentation" which is part of the normal yeast life cycles, one of the stages of fermentation.

The secondary we are referring to is also called a "brite tank" it is the carboy where people move their beer to clear, or to add fruit, or hops for dry hopping... and to let the yeast and other things fall down...It's to clear the beer....but if you leave your beer inprimary for several weeks you don't need to worry...

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. But this stage has its dark side too.

Under some conditions, the yeast will also consume some of the compounds in the trub. The "fermentation" of these compounds can produce several off-flavors. In addition, the dormant yeast on the bottom of the fermentor begin excreting more amino and fatty acids. Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident. Further, after very long times the yeast begin to die and break down - autolysis, which produces yeasty or rubbery/fatty/meaty flavors and aromas. For these reasons, it can be important to get the beer off of the trub and dormant yeast during the conditioning phase.

There has been a lot of controversy within the homebrewing community on the value of racking beers, particularly ales, to secondary fermentors. Many seasoned homebrewers have declared that there is no real taste benefit and that the dangers of contamination and the cost in additional time are not worth what little benefit there may be. While I will agree that for a new brewer's first, low gravity, pale beer that the risks probably outweigh the benefits; I have always argued that through careful transfer, secondary fermentation is beneficial to nearly all beer styles. But for now, I will advise new brewers to only use a single fermentor until they have gained some experience with racking and sanitation.

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.
 

The above comes from a Ray Daniels article on secondary fermentation.


again he's referring to the secondary stage of fermentation NOT a secondary container....

But for homebrewers, the phrase has a different meaning. Here, it more often refers to the final phase of fermentation before bottling. Thus, the activity that goes on inside those plastic buckets can be divided into two phases: primary fermentation and secondary fermentation.

But again, I find that a longer time in primary is better for my beers, they taste better and have a more jewel-like quality (at least that's what one of the bjcp judges called one of them) than when I used to rack to secondary at 7-10 days....
 
Hey Revvy - how long is too long in primary? You advise the longer the better - but can it be left for too long in your opinion (i know other people say yes, 3 weeks is too long, but what do you think?)?. I have a porter in primary for over a month now and Ed Wort's Apfelwien for maybe 2 months (because cleaning bottles is a pita).

I'm also wondering, how long is too long in secondary? Or is there such a thing?
 
Nickhead,

It depends. I wouldn't recommend going over a month in primary, but I have heard of rare cases where people have went much longer with no issues. You have to decide how much risk you want to take.

As for secondary, realistically there isn't a time limit (You can go several months), but if you plan on carbonating you will reach a point where you might need to add more yeast.
 
Nickhead,


As for secondary, realistically there isn't a time limit (You can go several months), but if you plan on carbonating you will reach a point where you might need to add more yeast.

How do you know when you need to add more yeast for carbonating in the bottle?
 
i am sure it has been asked, but i couldn't locate the answer; can i use my bottling bucket as a secondary? i know the lid w/ the airlock will fit. i am just worried about possible oxidation with the extra space. would a carboy be better, or will i just be spending extra $?
 
When you talk about leaving it in the primary for the duration is that a bucket with a lid and airlock? My primary doesn't have an airlock, just the lid that sits on top. Is this satisfactory or am I at risk of spoilage since there's no seal?
 
When you talk about leaving it in the primary for the duration is that a bucket with a lid and airlock? My primary doesn't have an airlock, just the lid that sits on top. Is this satisfactory or am I at risk of spoilage since there's no seal?

You're fine...there's co2 protecting your beer...if it's pushing out nothing can get in...and if you have noticed some of my writings...not every fermenter WITH an airlock is perfectly sealed, hence the fact that airlocks are fallable as a "fermentation gauge."
 
Q: I'm not really too concerned about the the clarity of my brews. Do I really have to use a secondary fermenter?

A: No, it's not absolutely essential to use a secondary...many home brewers make perfectly good beer without one. However, will your beer be better if you do use a secondary? ABSOLUTELY! Secondary fermentation is about clarity, but also about removing off flavors from your beer. To quote one of the masters:

During secondary fermentation, the yeast reduces or removes certain undesirable flavor components (diacetyl, acetylaldehyde, and some sulphur compounds), thereby maturing the beer into a more drinkable condition. During this latter phase of fermentation, the majority of the yeast in the beer also settles to the bottom of the fermenter, leaving the beer clear and bright. Thus, at the end of secondary fermentation, beer is generally ready to be carbonated and consumed.

The above comes from a Ray Daniels article on secondary fermentation.

I have 2 questions.

From the above post "the yeast reduces or removes certain undesirable flavor components (diacetyl, acetylaldehyde, and some sulphur compounds), thereby maturing the beer into a more drinkable condition."

#1. Do you add more yeast when you add the beer to the secondary fermentation container or just move the beer with the already contained yeast?

#2. When I move the beer to the secondary Fermentation container, I have always waited for the beer to be done fermenting "Holding the specific gravity at the same reading for 2 - 3 days". Should I be using an airlock on the carboy, or since the fermentation is complete should I use a solid rubber stopper? I usually try to leave the beer in the carboy for 2+ weeks before bottling.

So basically which stopper to use and do I add additional yeast when transferring ?
 
I've got the two plastic buckets brew kit: one with spigot one without. Instead of following the directions, I poured the chilled wort into the spigot bucket and decided to just let it sit in there for three weeks before bottling straight from the spigot.

Bad idea? Foresee any problems? Need more information?

Thanks,

Kong
 
I am using the True Brew Amber Kit for my first Homebrew it has stopped bubbling after about 4 days so I'm right on track per the directions. So it says wait 3-4 days then rack it to a bottling bucket then bottle. Would I benifit from a Secondary fermentation?....Please let me know if I am Correct ........Secondary fermentation just means you rack the brew into a fresh fermentation bucket? This is also my first post.
 
I am using the True Brew Amber Kit for my first Homebrew it has stopped bubbling after about 4 days so I'm right on track per the directions. So it says wait 3-4 days then rack it to a bottling bucket then bottle. Would I benifit from a Secondary fermentation?....Please let me know if I am Correct ........Secondary fermentation just means you rack the brew into a fresh fermentation bucket? This is also my first post.

I wouldn't rack into a new bucket. You would still have alot of headspace, just as in the bucket you have. Wait 2-3 weeks, then bottle. You can just leave the beer right where it is.
 
Thanks for the help. Do you have any insite on temp?

It really depends on the yeast you're using, so check the yeast manufacturer's website for specific directions for each strain.

I like to keep my fermenting beer in the low to mid 60s. That's not usually the ambient room temperature- the fermentation itself causes some heat, so the temperature inside the fermenter is often a few degrees higher than ambient air temperature. I have some of those "stick on" thermometers on the outside of the buckets and carboys to see the temperature at a glance.
 
I notice several times people talking about using a secondary before they keg. Is a secondary not advised if you are bottling? If your beer clears in the secondary would there be enough yeast left in suspension to properly carbonate your beer in the bottle?
 
I make sure to go to a secondary once I'm sure fermentation is done. I want to get the beer out of the first round of spent yeast, and not take chances for further contributions to the final flavor.

Over all clarity is a bit of a secondary concern. Since there's only so much I can do without filtering and kegging. Any residual sediment, I enjoy as a reminder of what beer was like way back when. Only a lot better. hehe
 
Hi All,

New here, and it's been a while since I brewed my own. I'm excited to start up again and have been reading everything I can to refresh my memory a bit. Let me start out with - I'm a scientist working in the food industry, so forgive me if this seems a bit over the top - I'm really just curious if anyone has tried this.

My first batch is in, and I'm reading all the opinions I can find on "should you use a secondary". I always did when I was teaching food microbiology classes, but this was primarily because the student perception of the beer was better and because it was the way we always did it.

There seems to be no general consensus, so here's my question...

Has anyone bottled 1/2 a batch and sent the other 1/2 to secondary then bottled and compared? Of course you have to make sure to use a small secondary container to minimize headspace, and maybe this wouldn't really be apples to apples, but like I said...just curious :)

Any thoughts?
 
Hi All,

New here, and it's been a while since I brewed my own. I'm excited to start up again and have been reading everything I can to refresh my memory a bit. Let me start out with - I'm a scientist working in the food industry, so forgive me if this seems a bit over the top - I'm really just curious if anyone has tried this.

My first batch is in, and I'm reading all the opinions I can find on "should you use a secondary". I always did when I was teaching food microbiology classes, but this was primarily because the student perception of the beer was better and because it was the way we always did it.

There seems to be no general consensus, so here's my question...

Has anyone bottled 1/2 a batch and sent the other 1/2 to secondary then bottled and compared? Of course you have to make sure to use a small secondary container to minimize headspace, and maybe this wouldn't really be apples to apples, but like I said...just curious :)

Any thoughts?

Actually the very first basic brewing and byo magazine collaborative listener/reader experiment did something similar last year.

May 28, 2009 - BBR-BYO Experiment Results
James Spencer, Steve Wilkes, and Chris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, taste James' experiment beer and read the results from brewers around the world.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr05-28-09results.mp3

BYO article- http://***********/component/resour...xperiment-does-delayed-racking-harm-your-beer
 
I've been brewing for 5 years (this is the 6th season). The question of secondary or not is why I joined this forum. I'm completely convinced that primary only for more complex ales produces better beer. This is especially true for stouts and porters. The flavor is just more "complete". I don't get any of the grain flavors standing out. It's smoother - no surprises. I'll never use a secondary on a stout again. It could be that over time the flavors will become more similar, but "over time" only happens with the beers that no one likes.
It's less clear for me when I brew a Kolsch or Cream Ale. The final results are a little different. I just get stronger flavor with the beer I've put in a secondary. The primary-only tastes very similar, but it just doesn't have as much of a eye-opening flavor to it. To those that follow style definition as the target, it could very well be that the primary only is actually closer to "style", but I like the taste of the beer that was put in a secondary better - especially the Kolsch. The hint of fruitiness is gone in the primary only beer.
This certainly isn't scientific, but the results are always similar. So, I'm still wrestling on whether to use a secondary on the lighter beers for the little - though noticeable difference in taste. Using a secondary for lagers is a given, so I don't consider it much of a cost or inconvenience to use them for ales. I'm hoping I can make some small changes in fermenting activities to get the fruitiness back in and go to primary only for all ales.
 
Revvy - thanks for the links. This is exactly what I was looking for! I know there is almost too much scientist in me to make my own brew - so many variables with no idea how some things will affect the brew...One thing is clear...I need more buckets!

I know...relax and have a home brew :cross:

Thanks again!
 
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