Infections when bottling USUALLY

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Matteo57

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So I keg more than half of my beers and have never had a problem with any infections when I keg.
I have bottled about probably 5-6 batches now and most of them have been become infected. I am not sure what it is, but it gets more and more carbonated as the time goes on the the flavor just becomes worse and worse until it really just becomes undrinkable.
I am trying to figure out where they are becoming infected because I steralize everything I use each step of the way. Not sure as to why certain batches would be infected but not others.
Each time after I use my equipment I clean with oxyclean then rinse thoroughly with water then before I use it I sanitize with starsan.
The only thing I can think of that I use when bottling that I don't when kegging would be the bottling bucket and the container I boil the priming sugar in. I clean and sanitize the bottling bucket and clean the boiling pot or measuring unit I boil in the microwave but I would have thought that any left over anything would be cleaned from the heat of boiling.
2 of the batches could have been from secondary additions (coconut which I baked thoroughly and another batch of vanilla beans which I sat on Vodka for a week)

Anyone have any suggestions I could try and narrow my problem down to so I stop wasting beers?? Really pissing me off because they have been some good beers right at bottling and so I go to let them age a bit and .... CRAP!

Thanks all for any advice you might give!
 
Are you sure it's an infection and not just over carbonation? Do you see a ring of crap around the neck of the bottle on the inside? I have only ever had one infected batch and it definitely left a ring of crud that was easily visible. Are you boiling your battle caps? How much priming sugar are you using for a 5 gallon batch?
Not saying you are doing anything wrong, but this information will help others to help you solve this mystery..
 
Are you sure it's an infection and not just over carbonation? Do you see a ring of crap around the neck of the bottle on the inside? I have only ever had one infected batch and it definitely left a ring of crud that was easily visible. Are you boiling your battle caps? How much priming sugar are you using for a 5 gallon batch?
Not saying you are doing anything wrong, but this information will help others to help you solve this mystery..

I've had crud on my bottles and the beers carb'ed and tasted fine. I believe its just a mini krausen from the reintroduction of sugar...
 
I always clean & sanitize the spigots on my FV's & bottling bucket. The mounting holes,seals,& everything every time. Did you sanitize the bottles? How bout the racking tube?
 
Are you boiling your battle caps?


Do they have to be boiled? If I already have the sanitizer out to sanitize the bucket, bottles, spigot, tubing and wand..... can't I just dump the bottle caps in a bowl of sanitizer for 5 or 10 minutes? Or is there something about the caps that requires boiling?


Sorry for intruding on someone else's thread.... hopefully you won't mind since it's all related subject matter :)
 
Do they have to be boiled? If I already have the sanitizer out to sanitize the bucket, bottles, spigot, tubing and wand..... can't I just dump the bottle caps in a bowl of sanitizer for 5 or 10 minutes? Or is there something about the caps that requires boiling?

you don't need to boil caps, simply soaking them in star san will do just fine.
 
Thank you

:mug:

Matteo, i'm questioning it being an infection. unless you're not sanitizing the bottles and caps (and priming solution), racking to a bottling bucket is pretty much the same as racking to a keg. sometimes i notice that even a avg gravity beer can take quite awhile in bottles before it stops tasting green. 3 weeks may carb up most ales, but i generally find that 4-5 weeks and then a week or more in the fridge to be closer to the time it takes for bottled beer to come around.... all of that is dependent on the beer, but in general.
many folks prime their brews with 5 oz of sugar (like the kits come with), i find that 9 times out of ten, this is way too much sugar for 5 gal and will result in overcrbing and possibly gushers. if you aren't already, try a priming calculator like this one at TastyBrew.com.
 
The beer goes from tasting good to defintetly a drain pour beer.
The beer also goes from fine carbonation to I pop the cap and the foam starts overflowing from the bottle.

I usually go off calculators for how much sugar I need to add. Usually it's around 4oz give or take depending on the beer style.

I have never taken off the spigot for my bottling bucket, I didn't know I needed to. I usually let star san run through the spigot for about 20-30 seconds and then soak the pour spout on the outside in star san and with a spray bottle also spray starsan all around the outside where the spigot is.

I do not boil the caps, I do let them sit in starsan for at least a few minutes before I put them on and cap them.

Yes, all of the bottling tubing, cane, everything gets rinsed thorougly and then I run starsan through it also while running it through the spigot.

The latest beer in question is an oatmeal chocolate stout. This beer tasted great right into the bottles, tasted even better after carbing up in the bottle and sitting for about a month. I brewed it back in mid October and maybe about 2 weeks or so I had one after letting them sit a bit and noticed it tasted off. Tried it again last night and it is definitely off. I can't tell you the actual flavors of it, but it tastes BAD! I can try another one tomorrow and state what flavors I taste and maybe that might help also? There is something wrong with it, no doubt.

When you all boil the water for your priming sugar, does anyone else just microwave the water and sugar to a boil and let it boil in the micro for a min or so? I have actually done it both ways (micro and stove top) though so I don't think that is the problem.
 
One more question.... How long will most beers last at room temp or cooler before going sour? I really don't think it is just going sour, but I have wondered about how long I can keep most homebrews before they go sour without infection
 
Yup. I still say never removing the spigot for cleaning & the mounting hole area as well is the most likely culprit.The seals and mounting hole can harbor residue that nasties like to live in. The starsan running through it can't get to these areas.
 
Are the bottles being subjected to light? Just wondering, as that could be another reason bottled beers go bad other than infection.
 
My first beer that I bottled actually got infected.... This sound odd with brand new equipment if this was the case?
Possibly the first batch was from something else and other batches are from a dirty spigot?
 
Everything I've read says that boiling in the microwave for only a minute isn't enough. Most instructions say to boil for 10 minutes. That's probably overkill, but I know I wouldn't drink untreated water that was only boiled for a minute. I'd take the spigot apart, and I'd boil your sugar water for 10 minutes.
 
Since you are already set up for kegging, why not just bottle from the keg, using a counter pressure bottle filler, or a Blickman beer gun, or Beer Muncher's Bottle Filler (BMBF), or Bowie bottle filler or whatever?
 
It would probably be easiest just more expensive! I had thought of that, just didn't want to spend the extra cash at the time.
Thanks for everyone's replies and info. Will have to check out a few things before I bottle again.
 
It would probably be easiest just more expensive! I had thought of that, just didn't want to spend the extra cash at the time.
Thanks for everyone's replies and info. Will have to check out a few things before I bottle again.

There was ZERO extra time or cost for me. It is simple... you need a racking cane, and picnic tap which I'm certain you already have both of those. If you want to get the rubber stopper for about 1$ that is your choice I have read some people not using it but I do.

That said if it isn't your spigot or priming solution it might be your bottling wand if you use one. Take it apart (tip, valve, and spring) and clean it well. Those springs can easily harbor bacteria.
 
For what it's worth, I had an extremely tenacious infection that sounds very much like yours. I think it was a wild yeast, because I didn't develop any particular off flavors but body thinned out and the beer just kept carbing until the bottles started exploding. I tried bleach bombing everything, but eventually i just ended up tossing everything plastic or rubber and starting fresh. It's tough to know when to cut your losses. Now I ferment in cornies and bottle straight from the fermentation vessel.
 
Kegging is easier because there is no risk of overcarbing due to too much sugar or bottling early. Check to see that that is not the case.

Also, I second the spigot risk. Even if it wasn't the original cause, you still have to take it apart and clean it and spray it with sanitizer after each bottling.

How is your bottle cleaning process? You have to make sure that each bottle is cleaned and sanitized. You could even place a pile of bottles in the oven and sterilize if you are not confident. 250F for 15 minutes ought to do it.

It's entirely possible that there is some airborne contaminant entering your bottles, but I'd wonder why it wasn't infecting your kegs too (or are you not letting them stay filled long enough to tell??)
 
How is your bottle cleaning process? You have to make sure that each bottle is cleaned and sanitized. You could even place a pile of bottles in the oven and sterilize if you are not confident. 250F for 15 minutes ought to do it.

I do 340* for 1 hour according to Palmer. Do you do only 15 min?
 
I do 340* for 1 hour according to Palmer. Do you do only 15 min?

I haven't actually looked up information. Just going by pressure canning requirements. But the pressure might actually be helping some too.

It's as easy to do 350 as any other temp, so why not? Just make sure to cool them down gradually.

EDIT: (From Wikipedia) The proper time and temperature for Dry-Heat sterilization is 160°C (320°F) for 2 hours or 170°C (340°F) for 1 hour. Instruments should be dry before sterilization since water will interfere with the process. Dry-heat destroys microorganisms by causing coagulation of proteins.
 
I haven't actually looked up information. Just going by pressure canning requirements. But the pressure might actually be helping some too.

It's as easy to do 350 as any other temp, so why not? Just make sure to cool them down gradually.

EDIT: (From Wikipedia) The proper time and temperature for Dry-Heat sterilization is 160°C (320°F) for 2 hours or 170°C (340°F) for 1 hour. Instruments should be dry before sterilization since water will interfere with the process. Dry-heat destroys microorganisms by causing coagulation of proteins.

In pressure canning, you've got all that steam to help. It moves the heat about far more effectively than air does.
 
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