Sweet Stout Deception Cream Stout

skyzo said:

question though, would s-05 be an acceptable yeast to use? I notice that most of the yeast people have been using are mostly clean american strains, so I figured 05 would work nicely. But I also dont want to screw up what seems to be an already perfected recipe. Any thoughts?

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I think stouts in general can work well with a variety of yeast strains. For this recipe anything that is fairly clean and attenuates well will work. I would think any of the following would be really good yeasts for this stout:

Wyeast 1450 (Now year round! - this is what I used)
Wyeast 1056/US05 (American Ale)
Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)
Wyeast 1028 (London Ale)
Danstar Nottingham

Of course, you could do some experimenting. I'm sure there are others out there that would work just fine. Any of the WLP yeasts equivalents would be perfectly fine. For the Nottingham and Irish Ale yeasts, I would keep the fermentation temps on the lower end around 63-65 during the first week or two. They tend to get a little estery above 65. Happy brewing.



Also, that nitro pic looks outstanding. I'm jealous. Save some for me! By the way Brian, I just made my 2.5 gallon starter beer for the RIS. Those Chinook smell awesome. I got better efficiency than normal and it ended up at 1.048. Should be good. My Imperial IPA should be drinkable for brew day.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 1450-PC - Denny's Favorite 50
Yeast Starter: Yes - 1 Liter
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 27
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 36
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 30 Days @ 67 F
Tasting Notes: Silky chocolate and coffee backed by smooth caramel

How much DME do you use for a 1 liter starter?

andysim said:

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 1450-PC - Denny's Favorite 50
Yeast Starter: Yes - 1 Liter
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.058
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 27
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 36
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 30 Days @ 67 F
Tasting Notes: Silky chocolate and coffee backed by smooth caramel

How much DME do you use for a 1 liter starter?

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100 grams/L

tincob said:

.
... I threw too much wheat DME and maltose into the brew kettle as I was aerating and pitching the Graff at the same time. The Graff turned out alright but the Deception Stout turned into an imperial milk stout.

To top it off, the stout blew off the stopper today and spewed it's guts out. I wound up pitching another 1 liter starter today, 48 hours into the fermentation, to account for the super high OG (1.096).

Anyway, NCBeerNut was very helpful in recovering from my mistakes. I believe the stout will turn out into a drinkable product despite all my efforts to muck it up.

I will name it Sweet Deception Imperial Stout. :rockin:

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Reporting back on my first attempt.

After 5 weeks, it fermented down to 1.032 which comes to about 8.4 ABV. I think I had too much unfermentables as a result of throwing in the extra wheat DME and maltose.

I decided to quit while I'm ahead rather than racking on top of a yeast bed. I'm glad I put together a keezer since 1.032 could have resulted in bottle bombs.

So I kegged it two days ago and snuck a pint to taste tonight.

It's flatter than Keira Knightly but as someone mentioned before, it's like drinking a Caramel Macchiato. This is definitely an Imperial stout as I can notice (and feel) the extra ABV.

Once I let it carb for another two weeks or so, I expect a nice head to top off this brew. I don't think I'll be drinking too much of this in one sitting due to the sweetness but I think I'll enjoy it during the remaining colder months.

I do want to try brewing it again and get it right the next time.
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Another update, it's now been about three weeks since I kegged this and all the flavors have blended nicely. The sweetness seems to have dissipated and everything tastes smoother. So my recommendation is to age this as long as you can stand. It worked for me - although I only have half a keg left.

FYI - Maltose and Wheat DME are both pretty fermentable. That is just a tricky beer to work with. I hope it's still at least drinkable. Maybe it will ferment down a bit more in the keg and you can let off some of the gas. Either way I hope you enjoy it and better luck next time around You know what that sounds like a damn good beer for though? Try using some in a dessert recipe. There are several out there for stout ice cream, and cakes and such.

Loved this recipe as soon as I saw it. Got a pot of it on the boil right now. Smells great. Will update when it's time to drink.

After about a month in the bottle, I have been drinking these and giving a few away. Everyone who has tried it loves it, and it is by far my best effort in my short brewing career. Thanks again NC Beernut for the great recipe.

worth said:

After about a month in the bottle, I have been drinking these and giving a few away. Everyone who has tried it loves it, and it is by far my best effort in my short brewing career. Thanks again NC Beernut for the great recipe.

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You're welcome. Just remember though, you are the one who brewed it! I think I am going to try brewing this some time with some cocoa powder added at flame out and a burbon vanilla bean in secondary. yum.

After 4 months in the secondary, I bottled yesterday and ended up at 1.021 (down from 1.024 when moving from primary to secondary in December). Tasted pretty good but wasn't as thick as I would've thought. Ill wait for it to carb then take a taste!

Just opened a bottle (7 days carbing, yes I know I didnt wait long enough). Lots of coffee on the finish with bitter chocolate upfront. For some reason I was expecting a little more sweetness. A little vanilla would certainly help. Overall, I like it.

Hey NCbeernut, hope Raleigh is treating you well--I used to have family on Brooks Avenue and spent a lot of time there...

Thanks much for the recipe. I am going to try it at the end of this week. Quick question--you mentioned possibly adding a bourbon vanilla bean in the secondary--how long are you leaving the batch in your primary before moving it over? Does the recipe benefit from leaving it in the primary for a longer time period before moving it to the secondary?

Thanks again!

When I plug this recipe into Promash (and Beer Calculus), my IBU prediction is in the 44.7+ range (assuming 14% AA). This is significantly more than the 27 IBU shown on the recipe, and it seems quite hoppy for the style.

Is everyone using the actual hops and recommended ounces, or are you shooting for the 27 IBU's based on your hop calculator. I'm inclined to follow the recipe rather than the calculated IBU's. Just curious.

joeldp144 said:

When I plug this recipe into Promash (and Beer Calculus), my IBU prediction is in the 44.7+ range (assuming 14% AA). This is significantly more than the 27 IBU shown on the recipe, and it seems quite hoppy for the style.

Is everyone using the actual hops and recommended ounces, or are you shooting for the 27 IBU's based on your hop calculator. I'm inclined to follow the recipe rather than the calculated IBU's. Just curious.

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I used Yakima Magnum which I think was 14.4% Mine is definitely not overly hoppy. It is about as bitter as a typical 24-28 IBU beer. I don't recall what my beersmith entry ended up calculating (I'm at work screwing around on HBT when I should be working ). But the bitterness is very well balanced against the sweetness of the grains and lactose.

joeldp144 said:

When I plug this recipe into Promash (and Beer Calculus), my IBU prediction is in the 44.7+ range (assuming 14% AA). This is significantly more than the 27 IBU shown on the recipe, and it seems quite hoppy for the style.

Is everyone using the actual hops and recommended ounces, or are you shooting for the 27 IBU's based on your hop calculator. I'm inclined to follow the recipe rather than the calculated IBU's. Just curious.

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Follow the recipe !!!! Seriously, I keep this kegged and on tap at my house at all times ... this is an incredible beer and fits the style very well.

Beersmith has me coming in a 29 IBUs, but I tweaked the recipe just slightly for partial mash, marris otter, etc... see my previous posts.

sfinger said:

Hey NCbeernut, hope Raleigh is treating you well--I used to have family on Brooks Avenue and spent a lot of time there...

Thanks much for the recipe. I am going to try it at the end of this week. Quick question--you mentioned possibly adding a bourbon vanilla bean in the secondary--how long are you leaving the batch in your primary before moving it over? Does the recipe benefit from leaving it in the primary for a longer time period before moving it to the secondary?

Thanks again!

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I left mine in primary for 4 weeks just to be sure it wasn't going to go any lower, and then I bottled it from there. No secondary. I don't see a need for it.

NCBeernut said:

I left mine in primary for 4 weeks just to be sure it wasn't going to go any lower, and then I bottled it from there. No secondary. I don't see a need for it.

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Thanks for the reply... I will give that a try and let you know how things go...

joeldp144 said:

When I plug this recipe into Promash (and Beer Calculus), my IBU prediction is in the 44.7+ range (assuming 14% AA). This is significantly more than the 27 IBU shown on the recipe, and it seems quite hoppy for the style.

Is everyone using the actual hops and recommended ounces, or are you shooting for the 27 IBU's based on your hop calculator. I'm inclined to follow the recipe rather than the calculated IBU's. Just curious.

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I think you already PMed me about this, but you might be getting different numbers for one of two reasons:

1. My magnums are 13.4%. If yours are higher that will give you more IBUS
2. I only do a 5 gallon boil and top up with a half gallon or so of water. If you start out with 6 to 7 gallons of wort and do a completely full boil you will get better utilization than I do.

So...yeah, you might want to adjust accordingly. If your boil volume isn't much larger and your magnums are about the same as mine, there might just be an error in the software.

This is on schedule for this weekend. Looking forward to trying it in... ugh, six weeks time!!!

ubermick said:

This is on schedule for this weekend. Looking forward to trying it in... ugh, six weeks time!!!

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It's quite good at six weeks, but if you have the will power to let it age for 3+ months, it is well worth the wait ... this beer smooths and mellows quite well with age, while still retaining it's earthy coffee-like robustness.

Only issue I see (and it's not really an "issue" per se) is when I tapped the recipe into Beertools, the color is coming up a bit light. Doing a 10 gallon batch (all grain):

15lb 2-Row
3lb White Wheat
2lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
1.5lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Roasted Barley
1lb Lactose

Is giving me a color of 26.67 SRM, as opposed to the 36 in the original recipe?

I *may* have the willpower to let it sit through the summer. It's gonna start getting toasty soon, so will be focusing on the pale ales and blondes to get me through the dog days, and could POSSIBLY put the keg of this in the cellar, and *forget* about it...!

It'd better be the best damned stout I've ever had, the way you lot have hyped it up!

ubermick said:

Only issue I see (and it's not really an "issue" per se) is when I tapped the recipe into Beertools, the color is coming up a bit light. Doing a 10 gallon batch (all grain):

15lb 2-Row
3lb White Wheat
2lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
1.5lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Roasted Barley
1lb Lactose

Is giving me a color of 26.67 SRM, as opposed to the 36 in the original recipe?

I *may* have the willpower to let it sit through the summer. It's gonna start getting toasty soon, so will be focusing on the pale ales and blondes to get me through the dog days, and could POSSIBLY put the keg of this in the cellar, and *forget* about it...!

It'd better be the best damned stout I've ever had, the way you lot have hyped it up!

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The color of this one is by no means "light". I have literally held this one up to a bare light bulb and it is so black that I couldn't see even a hint of light coming through. And yes, I know what you mean by the hype, but this is the best damned stout I have ever had, and suprisingly found that it is a PERFECT beer to use to introduce BMC'ers to something different. Everyone loves it, BMC'ers, Homebrewers, beersnobs... Everyone (well, Ok, everyone but my wife... but she doesn't count... she is the ultra hard core BMC'er.)

ubermick said:

Is giving me a color of 26.67 SRM, as opposed to the 36 in the original recipe?

I *may* have the willpower to let it sit through the summer. It's gonna start getting toasty soon, so will be focusing on the pale ales and blondes to get me through the dog days, and could POSSIBLY put the keg of this in the cellar, and *forget* about it...!

It'd better be the best damned stout I've ever had, the way you lot have hyped it up!

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I don't like the way it ages personally. Definitely better in the first 6 months. Tinkering around in BeerSmith, I can't figure out why your color is off though. Are you sure you aren't entering Pale Chocolate or something? I am calculating with 350 SRM Chocolate Malt and 300 SRM RB and it comes out to roughly 35 SRM.

NCBeernut said:

I don't like the way it ages personally. Definitely better in the first 6 months. Tinkering around in BeerSmith, I can't figure out why your color is off though. Are you sure you aren't entering Pale Chocolate or something? I am calculating with 350 SRM Chocolate Malt and 300 SRM RB and it comes out to roughly 35 SRM.

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I'm brewing a split batch with my buddy, so five gallons goes with him in bottles, and five with me in a keg. I guarantee that his won't last a month after bottling. Mine will probably hit the six months, since I'm on a serious hop kick at the moment, but this'll be nice after the summer, I'm thinking.

Nope, am definitely using the 350L Chocolate and the 300 RB in the recipe. In my head the 35 SRM makes sense, since the last stout I made had just a couple of ounces in there and it came out black as night. Am thinking it's Beertools being weird.

ubermick said:

I'm brewing a split batch with my buddy, so five gallons goes with him in bottles, and five with me in a keg. I guarantee that his won't last a month after bottling. Mine will probably hit the six months,

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Silly brewer, beer's for drinkin', not fer lookin' at!

Jayrot said:

Silly brewer, beer's for drinkin', not fer lookin' at!

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Speak o' the devil.

We're going to be getting a little less than we thought too - the thing is absolutely blowing up in the fermentation chamber. Came down last night, there was about a beer's worth all over the floor, leaked out, and soaked into the bottom of the wood. Ditched the silly airlock, there's a blowoff tube on each, and THAT was full this morning!

Wow. Always nice to know the yeasties are doing their thing, though. None of this "will they or won't they".

How many beers worth do you think we spilled on Rick's floor? aka "the natural syphon incident"

im probably going to order the grains for this one soon, do you think the 1450 yeast plays a big part in the recipe?

This will be my first beer using wheat. What kind of flavor does it impart to the beer?

I am not a huge fan of wheat beers, but I believe it's because of the flavor the wheat style yeasts contribute. Could be wrong...

ndsgr said:

This will be my first beer using wheat. What kind of flavor does it impart to the beer?

I am not a huge fan of wheat beers, but I believe it's because of the flavor the wheat style yeasts contribute. Could be wrong...

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The wheat is only there to aid in head retention and texture. It will not make any flavor contributions to this recipe.

The flavors wheat contributes even at 50% of the grist as in wheat beers are subtle. In this beer, there is only a small amount, and any very slight flavor it would have contributed is going to be completely overpowered by the roasted grains. So yeah, don't fear the wheat.

Cool man, thanks! Will brew next weekend!

Finally got around to brewing NCBeernut's recipe yesterday (extract) and it really smelled and looked great. Some buddies stopped by and every one of them noticed the coffee aroma immediately. I used Denny's Fav for the yeast and as of this morning it was going to town. Thanks again for the recipe and I'll check back in a while to let you know how it comes out...

Pic is from a blackberry...sorry about the quality...

Actually, it's a pretty nice pic for a camera phone. Looks good!

Is there an official PM version of this recipe? One that's been tried and approved?

I notice on the first or second page someone mentioned using Otter... wondering what the results were.

Or is it not worth it, just do the extract version?

I have lots of experience with PMs. If you tell me your efficiency and how much you can mash I will make you a recipe.

Well, I've only officially done 3 PM recipes. The first two i didn't realize I was doing a poor fly sparge (with a very small grain bill).

The last I actually batch sparged, but came in at about 60% eff. I believe the fault lies in improper temperature control. I didn't dough-in high enough, but I guess I don't know that this would result in a lower eff?

Anyway, I guess the last time I brewed eff was about 60%. But I hope to increase that next time. Does that help?

That's cool, but how much grain can you mash?

Also, unless you drastically missed your mash temp, that probably wasn't an issue. Amylases still work well in the 140s, though a bit more slowly.

Mash amount would be useful yeah? 6#, it's a small orange drink cooler.

Would trying to boil too much and getting lower boil off amounts effect eff?

It won't effect your efficiency, but it could make your efficiency LOOK lower than it actually is if:
- You are only taking a gravity reading post-boil to check your eff
- You are ending up with more wort than you expect
- You don't take the larger volume into account when calculating eff

Here is your grain bill for 60% eff:

2 lb Light/Extra Light DME
1.5 lb Wheat DME
3.5 lb Pale Malt (MO, Am 2-row, etc)
1 lb Crystal 60
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt
0.5 lb Roasted Barley
0.5 lb Lactose

Jebus!!!

I've had this at on CO2 for almost two weeks now, and this thing will NOT carb up! (The keg's holding pressure fine)

Was on 12 PSI at 35 degrees for a week, then when that was doing absolutely NOTHING, I jacked it to 30 for a few days. Purged the keg, dropped it back down to 12, and there was the slightest bit of carbonation. Left it for a few more days to equalize, carbonation's still not there. Just jacked it back to 30 about 36 hours ago, HOPEFULLY this will be good to go by the weekend!

Hope you like it. I don't keg so I can't help you there!