Soldering Stainless steel

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I got it out.

I got the dimple tool ready to go. I had a rag with some flux on it ready. I heated it until the solder started melting and wiped the joint on the inside, heated and wiped, put the tool in as fast as I could and started cranking and it budged pretty easily. I have a little clean up to do but not too big of a deal.
 
jsguitar said:
I got it out.
I had a rag.. put the tool in as fast as I could and started cranking and it budged pretty easily. I have a little clean up to do but not too big of a deal.
Click to expand...

Well, you had a rag right? Cleanup shoud be expected. Yeah, put it in fast but don't crank too soon. I don't know, are we still talking about soldering? This sounds kinda dirty...
 
lschiavo said:
Well, you had a rag right? Cleanup shoud be expected. Yeah, put it in fast but don't crank too soon. I don't know, are we still talking about soldering? This sounds kinda dirty...
Click to expand...

I probably shouldn't even mention the leaky sillcock that I had to fix a couple days ago.

It's been a hell of a week. :)
 
Woo! First soldered keggle fitting is a success! Thank you HBT for showing me the way. It only took 1 old lid riddled with holes, 2 broken bolts, 3 tries at making forming tools on the lathe, and 4 bashed knuckles. :) 1 down, 7 to go...

2012-12-11_22-45-43_683.jpg
 
swstim said:
Woo! First soldered keggle fitting is a success! Thank you HBT for showing me the way. It only took 1 old lid riddled with holes, 2 broken bolts, 3 tries at making forming tools on the lathe, and 4 bashed knuckles. :) 1 down, 7 to go...

2012-12-11_22-45-43_683.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks nice!

I finally got a coupler soldered for my element that I was having trouble with here. I used a full coupler because of the long element and a little bit narrower bottom of the Coors keg HLT.

A couple pages back in this thread I was having all kinds of problems with the hole and coupler sizes for the element. I recently bought another coupler from Bargain Fittings this time and the hole I made earlier was still a little big so I had to hammer it in some, but I think it's going to work now. The element has NPT threads and I'm not quite sure how I'm going to use my Kal style element box with this yet.

element hole.jpg


element 2.jpg
 
Huaco said:
are you using teflon tape on that heating element connection? if so, how are you ensuring the kettle is properly grounded?
Click to expand...

Yes I will. I'm switching over from using a Camco element with Kal's weldless method so I haven't got it figured out yet. I imagine I could solder a lug for a ground wire like I've seen many do. I still would need to figure out how to house the wiring either way. Any ideas are welcome
 
LiquidFlame said:
What prevents you from using kal's electric box setup for the element.
Click to expand...

Because of the longer tapered threads, there is a gap between the box and the coupling. It would need to be snugged up. I just went out and was going to see if the locknut I have would fit in the gap but my garage is so messy from all of this stuff that couldn't find it right now.
 
Look at how Lschiavo does his boxes, electrical connections inside the box and threads outside the box
 
DustBow said:
Look at how Lschiavo does his boxes, electrical connections inside the box and threads outside the box
Click to expand...

Thanks DustBow. It's nice to know someone agrees. It was hard enough for me to find a picture of my method so (in case anyone is interested and to save them the trouble) I'm posting the best I could quickly find. The drawbacks for some may be: welding (just tacks), steel element nut (some are brass/other) and steel box (aluminum weather proof won’t work).

The ground wire is connected to the box and cord ground and intended to ultimately bond to the kettle. I think it's smart to double up and not only rely on the element threads for grounding.


thumb2_2011-10-31_09-31-03_652-51203.jpg
 
Started practicing making dimples in my keg lids, and I'm having a he'll of a time getting the butt-weld pipe fitting to pass all the way through. I've sprayed WD-40 on the fittings, and use the technique of placing the 1/2" coupler behind the butt-weld fitting to push it out, but can't get it to pass through. Was seeing if you guys any suggestions or if you used any power tools when you were making dimples.

Also I attempted to pass one of my 1/2" couplings through one of my dimples, and had so much resistance that it wouldn't move through the hole. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, because I can't imagine getting these couplers through just with a ratchet set and my hands.
 
based on the parts in this list from mcmaster you shouldn't ever need to pull the butt weld pipe all the way through. it would make the hole MUCH too big. are you sure the hole you drilled is the proper size? does your dimple tool fit entirely inside the outside spacer when assembled? like are you bottoming out before you get through as far as you need to? are you using all the part #s from McMasterCarr or did you improvise?

you for sure shouldn't have to use power tools, just elbow grease.

pics of your setup would help.
 
slakwhere said:
based on the parts in this list from mcmaster you shouldn't ever need to pull the butt weld pipe all the way through. it would make the hole MUCH too big. are you sure the hole you drilled is the proper size? does your dimple tool fit entirely inside the outside spacer when assembled? like are you bottoming out before you get through as far as you need to? are you using all the part #s from McMasterCarr or did you improvise?

you for sure shouldn't have to use power tools, just elbow grease.

pics of your setup would help.
Click to expand...

I had to grind down my butt weld fitting from mcmaster to get it to pass the whole way through. The attempts I made with it before doing this I had to stop short of coming the whole way through or it would tear the metal I was dimpling. (Thin old pot I was practicing on)

I found it was easier to gring it down a little than paying close attention on where to stop.
 
is the OD of the butt weld fitting the same as the coupling you're using? they should be pretty close for this to work correctly.
 
I just always pulled the reducer through enough so that I knew I hadn't gone too far and removed the tool to compare the diameter with the OD of my coupler. I would measure with a set of calipers. Once I got under 0.100" I would sand and clean everything, flux it all and pull the fitting through with flux on it. It would open the dimple the rest of the way and "custom fit" it to each individual coupler. Then, I re-fluxed andthen soldered. Worked GREAT and had a nice bead of solder on the far side from the solder puddle too.
 
Ok, some success, the problem I now have is the 1/2"coupler is butting heads with the 1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling, so it won't come any further through. I've been staring at this and can't figure out how you guys pull it all the way through. I've include some pictures of my progress and the tools I'm using. The "Keg Tool" is my friends that I borrowed and he said the butt-weld is from McMaster, but as you can see it's smaller than my 1/2" couplers that I also got from McMaster. The bolt I'm using is a 9/16".

Keg Tool
photobucket-5322-1355443707540.jpg


Butt-weld on top of 1/2" coupler
photobucket-4542-1355443705848.jpg


1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling
2012-12-13_18-28-44_303.jpg


1/2" coupler on top of 1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling
photobucket-5810-1355443706674.jpg


As far as the coupler will come out
photobucket-6167-1355443708413.jpg


Some tearing
photobucket-4660-1355443709265.jpg
 
LiquidFlame, I've only done a few of these so far, but FWIW it looks like your couplings are a little too big for your welding reducer or vice versa depending on how you look at it, and the hole is probably a little too small. Also, I actually have been using one of my 1" full couplings for the receiving end of the tool. You could also use PVC if you have some laying around. I don't think it has to be a close fit really* you just need to be careful to keep things straight as it goes through.

* meaning that the 'reciever' could be bigger
 
Huaco said:
I just always pulled the reducer through enough so that I knew I hadn't gone too far and removed the tool to compare the diameter with the OD of my coupler. I would measure with a set of calipers. Once I got under 0.100" I would sand and clean everything, flux it all and pull the fitting through with flux on it. It would open the dimple the rest of the way and "custom fit" it to each individual coupler. Then, I re-fluxed andthen soldered. Worked GREAT and had a nice bead of solder on the far side from the solder puddle too.
Click to expand...

I want to buy some calipers. Thanks for the details on your technique.
 
lschiavo said:
Thanks DustBow. It's nice to know someone agrees. It was hard enough for me to find a picture of my method so (in case anyone is interested and to save them the trouble) I'm posting the best I could quickly find. The drawbacks for some may be: welding (just tacks), steel element nut (some are brass/other) and steel box (aluminum weather proof won’t work).

The ground wire is connected to the box and cord ground and intended to ultimately bond to the kettle. I think it's smart to double up and not only rely on the element threads for grounding.


thumb2_2011-10-31_09-31-03_652-51203.jpg
Click to expand...

I really like this lschiavo!

I'm not sure this will work for me though. I will be doing the grounding wire to the kettle for sure. Haven't had time to think about the rest yet.

ETA: I meant to add that the welding is the main issue for me btw.

:mug:
 
jsguitar said:
LiquidFlame, I've only done a few of these so far, but FWIW it looks like your couplings are a little too big for your welding reducer or vice versa depending on how you look at it, and the hole is probably a little too small. Also, I actually have been using one of my 1" full couplings for the receiving end of the tool. You could also use PVC if you have some laying around. I don't think it has to be a close fit really* you just need to be careful to keep things straight as it goes through.

* meaning that the 'reciever' could be bigger
Click to expand...

Thanks for the PVC idea worked like a charm.
 
LiquidFlame said:
Butt-weld on top of 1/2" coupler
photobucket-4542-1355443705848.jpg
Click to expand...

this is the oposite of what you want. you want your tool to be the same diameter or larger than the coupling you are using. your hole may also be slightly too small for that coupling.

bottoming out on the outside spacer was also part of the problem. glad to hear PVC got you through far enough. if you're using a step bit you may want to try 1 step bigger for next time, and find a bigger reducer to use as a dimple tool if you can.
 
LiquidFlame said:
Ok, some success, the problem I now have is the 1/2"coupler is butting heads with the 1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling, so it won't come any further through. I've been staring at this and can't figure out how you guys pull it all the way through. I've include some pictures of my progress and the tools I'm using. The "Keg Tool" is my friends that I borrowed and he said the butt-weld is from McMaster, but as you can see it's smaller than my 1/2" couplers that I also got from McMaster. The bolt I'm using is a 9/16".

Keg Tool
photobucket-5322-1355443707540.jpg


Butt-weld on top of 1/2" coupler
photobucket-4542-1355443705848.jpg


1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling
2012-12-13_18-28-44_303.jpg


1/2" coupler on top of 1" stainless socket weld low pressure coupling
photobucket-5810-1355443706674.jpg


As far as the coupler will come out
photobucket-6167-1355443708413.jpg


Some tearing
photobucket-4660-1355443709265.jpg
Click to expand...

Your coupler is bigger than the tool, that's why its a pain and shearing the metal at the edge.

McMasters' coupler suppliers seemed to have changed the outside diameter. I had a similar problem and chose to machine down the extra thickness to get out close to the o.d. of the keg tool.
 
LiquidFlame said:
The shearing I'm getting seems to be minimal, will that have much effect when I silver solder the coupling?
Click to expand...

It will probably be fine for soldering however cracks could be more prone to a failure in the future. Ie you bang the ball valve on something moving it around. Its been pushing 20 years since my materials class but as I recall cracks like to travel when the metal is stressed.
 
LiquidFlame said:
The shearing I'm getting seems to be minimal, will that have much effect when I silver solder the coupling?
Click to expand...

I think you're fine, the stainless, even slightly cracked is still much stronger than the solder, which is fairly strong in itself.

If this was the space shuttle we would look at it differently, but the solder should fill and "repair" those minor cracks. Your original hole in the keg also looks a bit on the small side as well, so the dimple really needs to stretch and thus cracks, also the female side of the press tool being too small.

Whether a valve is welded or soldered, if someone were to drop a keg on the valve, something is likely to bend or break IMO.
 
Huaco said:
I just always pulled the reducer through enough so that I knew I hadn't gone too far and removed the tool to compare the diameter with the OD of my coupler. I would measure with a set of calipers. Once I got under 0.100" 0.020" to 0.030" I would sand and clean everything, flux it all and pull the fitting through with flux on it. It would open the dimple the rest of the way and "custom fit" it to each individual coupler. Then, I re-fluxed andthen soldered. Worked GREAT and had a nice bead of solder on the far side from the solder puddle too.
Click to expand...

Sorry... didn't remember my measurement. 0.100" would leave way too much metal to pull through. 0.020" to 0.030" is more like what I was doing.
 
jsguitar said:
Because of the longer tapered threads, there is a gap between the box and the coupling. It would need to be snugged up. I just went out and was going to see if the locknut I have would fit in the gap but my garage is so messy from all of this stuff that couldn't find it right now.
Click to expand...

I guess I still don't get how kal's electric box setup wouldn't work. I plan on using it with a 1" welding spud, and it seems like it would be pretty snug.
 
LiquidFlame said:
I guess I still don't get how kal's electric box setup wouldn't work. I plan on using it with a 1" welding spud, and it seems like it would be pretty snug.
Click to expand...

You may have missed that I'm using an unusual NPT threaded element instead of the usual NPS. The NPT threads are tapered and seal with the threads unlike the NPS which threads all the way down and seals with the gasket. That's what allows the box to be secured tight against the kettle. I'm assuming you're using a water heater element, in which case it will work perfectly (I think).

With my element, even when screwed all the way in, there's a big gap between the box and the coupling that leaves the box wobbling around. Here's the thread dealing with my NPT elements. I'm still having a little trouble getting this solution to work on my HLT.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/316ss-4500w-elements-ebay-369999/index3.html

ETA: Also, they're too long which is why I'm using the coupling.
 
Try going to Lowe's/Home Depot and picking up some washers or even a piece of Spa-Flex or other tubing that can take up the gap. That might allow the Kal method to work for you.
 
Ok I did it and it is great love this stuff man! They look great and it is super quick

ALSO THANKS EVERYONE WHO WENT BEFOR ME!!!!!
 
Hey guys, I learned how to do this somewhere in this thread but I don't know if anyone's made a concise post about it yet. :)

I was successful soldering in a 2" triclamp ferrule into the side of a keggle. I first drilled a 1 7/8" hole with a hole saw from the hardware store, and then flared it out with a custom tool I made on the lathe:
2inchtool.jpg

(It's a 15degree taper from 1.75" to 2.020")

I pulled that through with a 1/2-20 grade 8 bolt/nut with a 2" PVC coupler for the outside. Don't discount the importance of a) the fine thread bolt and b) the grade 8 hardware because it takes surprising force to make the dimple.

Once the dimple was formed I tapped in the 2" triclover nipple and soldered with stainless flux from McMaster and standard lead free solder from Menards:
2inchsolder1.jpg
2inchsolder2.jpg


I then used the element adapter kit from StillDragon to complete the install of your standard Camco element.
Element1.jpg
Element2.jpg


This approach makes it really easy to take the element out for cleaning, and also avoids the issue of threading an NPS element into a 1" NPT coupler.

I hope this helps someone out there!
 
swstim said:
Hey guys, I learned how to do this somewhere in this thread but I don't know if anyone's made a concise post about it yet. :)

I was successful soldering in a 2" triclamp ferrule into the side of a keggle. I first drilled a 1 7/8" hole with a hole saw from the hardware store, and then flared it out with a custom tool I made on the lathe:
2inchtool.jpg

(It's a 15degree taper from 1.75" to 2.020")

I pulled that through with a 1/2-20 grade 8 bolt/nut with a 2" PVC coupler for the outside. Don't discount the importance of a) the fine thread bolt and b) the grade 8 hardware because it takes surprising force to make the dimple.

Once the dimple was formed I tapped in the 2" triclover nipple and soldered with stainless flux from McMaster and standard lead free solder from Menards:
2inchsolder1.jpg
2inchsolder2.jpg


I then used the element adapter kit from StillDragon to complete the install of your standard Camco element.
Element1.jpg
Element2.jpg


This approach makes it really easy to take the element out for cleaning, and also avoids the issue of threading an NPS element into a 1" NPT coupler.

I hope this helps someone out there!
Click to expand...

Very nice! I've been thinking of doing the very same thing.
 

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