ruined my beer by kegging? or....what?

new to the forum, hello all!! little but of back story, My SWMBO's father is an avid home brewer, and i have had plenty of tasty brews from him. I got into the hobby after helping out at a few brewdays and decided it was time for my first batch solo. I followed all the precautions sanitizing, following instructions, all that jazz...

im a newbie by all means but have done plenty of research, but the problem i have is leaving me baffled.

So i purchased a SMaSH ale all grain kit from northernbrewer.com, and had at it. Assuming a easy peasy single malt/single hop ale would be an easy recipe for a first batch.

the end result is a bitter tasting beer with a flavor that sticks around and just isnt pleasant. Like, it almost taste like like its spoiled, but its only been in a keg for 5 days!

now, my thoughts behind this off flavor are as follows:

I decided to leave in primary fermentation for the whole two weeks, VS one week primary/one week secondary. Now after researching, i dont think this is the source of my problem, but its a possibility? right?

OR! the kegs i have are corny pin lock kegs i got from a good friend who works as a manufacturing manager at Cornelius! I received them still full of soda syrup, so after bleach bombing, soaking in oxy clean, rinsing, rinsing, soaking in PBW, rinsing, rinsing, and starsan and rising...and rinsing...OH and rinsing my beer lines with star san, and being all new hardware, is this a possible cause?

OR! I live in a small town, and my water is off an aquifer, it is relatively hard water, and im going to assume an off pH. after some research i discovered pH being too high(i believe) can cause an off flavor. I have since purchased ph5.2 and will be trying in in my next batch. could this do it?

Im stumped. i mean its tolerable to drink but i dont want to share it cause its almost embarrassing!

any ideas? ANY?

How long has it been in the keg? The beer continues to improve in the keg for a while. To me, it seems like, 3 weeks and the beer goes from good to great.
Also did you change all the seals on the keg? I mean all of them? Also did you use campden tablets to remove the chlorine from your water?

Aonghus said:

How long has it been in the keg? The beer continues to improve in the keg for a while. To me, it seems like, 3 weeks and the beer goes from good to great.
Also did you change all the seals on the keg? I mean all of them? Also did you use campden tablets to remove the chlorine from your water?

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All seals on the kegs have been replaced and sanitized before use. all hardware and lines are new, and were sanitized before use.

I did not use campden tablets. Didnt know of their existence until lately.

That's what I would say it would be chlorine/chloramine from your water. But most likely it's just the fact that it's been in the keg 5 days give it at least two weeks for it to come into its own. You won't get off flavors for leaving it in primary two weeks. A lot of people Leave it for 4 weeks And Most Dont Use A Secondary.

Sounds like 4 week old beer? It CAN be OK at 4 weeks. It will likely be much better at four months. If you didn't contaminate the batch with cleaning products, kegging is not the issue.

lschiavo said:

Sounds like 4 week old beer? It CAN be OK at 4 weeks. It will likely be much better at four months. If you didn't contaminate the batch with cleaning products, kegging is not the issue.

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i thought the motto was dont fear the foam?

so its likely that my beer is just green?

rangerdanger said:

i thought the motto was dont fear the foam?

so its likely that my beer is just green?

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If it is four weeks old, that's my position. It will change in two more weeks...been there. If you are using the cleaning products recommended here and rinsing well, that should not be an issue.

Also good to remember that starsan is a no-rinse sanitiser. If you rinse it away then you're defeating the purpose of having used it in the first place. I highly doubt that's what your problem is, but just putting it out there none the less.


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OneEyeBrewing said:

Also good to remember that starsan is a no-rinse sanitiser. If you rinse it away then you've defeating the purpose of having used it in the first place. I highly doubt that's what your problem is, but just putting it out there none the less.


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Good point. Don't fear the foam is correct. I have the T-shirt

im more so confused, SWMBO's father went from brewing to kegs in 3 weeks, carb'd and it was delicious! whats the difference?

Wondering could the bitterness possibly be carbonic bite? When I first started kegging I force carbed at 30 psi for a few days, and my beer had a card bonic bite to. When I changed to the set at serving pressure and forget it for a few weeks, the bite went away

Id suggest not using bleach in stainless steel. I dont remember the exact reason but was advised by a StarSan chemist that it's not a good practice.

Probably your beer just needs more time to age and mellow.

I've had beer go from grain to glass in 2 weeks! There are many differences to consider in your situation. The recipe for one, the water (as you've pointed out), ingredient quality/age, fermentation temps etc.

The high bitterness you've described could be because of a high % of sulphate in your water. Get a water report from your local council and check it out. You can always cut your water with distilled or RO water to soften it up.

What were the hops you used and what was the hopping schedule? Also what was the preboil gravity?

Every batch is different. The variables are endless. I would give this one some time to mature and keep up your studies on water and such in the meantime. 5.2 is not commonly recommended lately as far as I have seen. Check the water chemistry primer for a good starting point. Sorry, too lazy to link it now. Welcome to the anxious world of brewing

Anxious World of Brewing.... you nailed it Ischiavo!

Dan said:

Anxious World of Brewing.... you nailed it Ischiavo!

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So did you my friend. Carbonic acid will fade with time. Don't use bleach. Both excellent observations.

http://www.villageofgilberts.com/modules/news/photos/000000009702719.pdf

Here's the quality report I found. Any help?


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OneEyeBrewing said:

What were the hops you used and what was the hopping schedule? Also what was the preboil gravity?

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http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-SMASHSessionAle.pdf

Followed all steps minus racking to secondary.

Preboil gravity was 1.040. Very close to the recipe. Also, liquid yeast option was used and fully swollen before pitching.

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Your brewing report is worthless for brewing, as you need to know things like alkalinity, sulfate, chloride- but your sodium does look pretty darn high and there is iron in the water as well.

It definitely sounds like a water issue to me. "Hard" water is ok, but alkaline water is not. You may have a high bicarbonate level, like I do, and I struggle to make lighter colored beers with it. I ended up buying water first, then getting my own reverse osmosis system so that I could easily dilute my tap water with pure water.

The descriptions you give of your finished beer do sound like a water issue, and I would look at correcting that for lighter colored beers. If the water is alkaline and high in bicarbonate, you would probably have good luck with porters and stouts.

So what's the best plan of attack for diagnosis I this situation?


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Wait it out. I know not what you want to here. See if it goes away any in a weeks or so. On the next brew look into building a water profile from RO water. Extract brewing is simple. You can just use RO water because the extract already had the minerals in it.

Update!

So, I let the keg sit and kept sampling every couple days. Has improved but not 100%. Prior to all this I filled a couple grolsch bottles off the tap and stored them in the back of the fridge. Fast forward two weeks or so, that bottle tasted completely different then the beer out of the keg! Thoughts? Does beer age faster in bottles?

Question two, I recently racked an bells two hearted IPA clone to a keg as well, I'm getting a similar after taste in this batch too. Different keg, also cleaned rinsed and sanitized.

What the hell?



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rangerdanger said:

Question two, I recently racked an bells two hearted IPA clone to a keg as well, I'm getting a similar after taste in this batch too. Different keg, also cleaned rinsed and sanitized.

What the hell?



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It sounds like you used the same water for the IPA as well, if you're getting the same off-flavor.

But the flavor was not In the bottled beer. That was bottled off the keg.

Just being anxious?


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rangerdanger said:

Update!

So, I let the keg sit and kept sampling every couple days. Has improved but not 100%. Prior to all this I filled a couple grolsch bottles off the tap and stored them in the back of the fridge. Fast forward two weeks or so, that bottle tasted completely different then the beer out of the keg! Thoughts? Does beer age faster in bottles?

Question two, I recently racked an bells two hearted IPA clone to a keg as well, I'm getting a similar after taste in this batch too. Different keg, also cleaned rinsed and sanitized.

What the hell?



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Is it possible that the beer you bottled simply benefited from 2 weeks of additional aging? A quick way to find out is to taste the beer still in the keg against one that you bottled, if there is beer still in the keg.
How does your water taste straight from the tap? Typically there is a saying that if the water tastes good enough to drink from the tap, it should make a decent beer.

Sorry to hear you're still getting off flavors from the keg. I dont think you mentioned changing out the O-rings on the lid and poppets. If you haven't replaced them thy could be contributing to a strange flavor.

Im not sure water would make a difference between kegging and bottling tastes but I'm far from an expert. It just doesn't make sense to me.


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When I first started brewing (and kegging), my 1st and 4th batch both had a weird off flavor. I had 3 kegs at the time and ironically the 1st and 4th batch were in the same keg. Turned out even after all the PBW soaks that there was still a bunch of soda crud built up in the center of the dip tube that my brush couldn't reach. I also had bottled some beer from the keg, placed it in the fridge for a few days, and it had a noticeable taste difference (for the better).

I've since placed that keg to the side and the subsequent 8 batches have all been great.

I would definitely recommend against using 5.2 stabilizer in the mash. From everything I've read on here, the stuff is useless.

How is the hop aroma and flavor in the Bell's clone?

I hope you find a solution, because I've been facing a similar problem for a few months now. Everything tastes great except when bottled CO2 touches it. If I bottle it, it tastes great. If I carb it in the keg, it tastes great. As soon as I put it in the keezer and hook it up to CO2, it develops a severe off-flavor.

possible that you are tasting your beer line hoses? I know some people have to find the right hoses... may want to give that a search.

rangerdanger said:

But the flavor was not In the bottled beer. That was bottled off the keg.

Just being anxious?


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That is a clue. Was there much sediment in the bottles? The stuff that can make beer taste not so good can be in the haze. Maybe the bottles got a good cold crash and dropped the nasties? Just keep brewing and try to improve every part of the process as you go...next thing you know, you're a pro