Wyeast 3787, email from Wyeast

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Jeepaholic

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Today I got a email from Wyeast about 3787 Trappist high gravity. i thought I would share.

What I wrote:
Yesterday I pitched a starter of 3787 Trappist high gravity into a 5 gallon batch of beer I fear may be to big for it now. I stepped it up with 2, 2 liter starters for approximately 300 billion cells. My expected original gravity was 1.072 but I ended up with 1.090. While that wouldn't worry me I still plan to add 4 more pounds of sugar for about a 36 point increase in gravity. I plan to add this along with another dose of energizer and nutrient when the wort hits 1.040. This will take the beer to about 14% abv. This yeast is advertised to tolerate 12%+, how much + is there? Can it hit 14%?

The answer:
I think you can hit 14%, but you should probably make another starter to add at about the same time you dose the extra sugar. This would be your best bet for a smooth fermentation.

It just so happens I did an experiment to see if I could grow the yeast that was stuck to the sides of the flask after pitching it. I used a 1 liter 1.020 starter that I let run for 2 days until it was finished. then stepped it up with a 2 liter starter that finished today. I now have a 1/2" layer of yeast that i'm going to pitch tonight. After I pitch it I'm going to do the same process and step it back up so I still have some, so far I'm loving this yeast. It floculates faster and harder than any other yeast I have ever seen.

Marcus
 
I'm wondering if anybody has tried pushing 3787 this far. I'm currently sitting at 1.030 for about 12.7% ABV. fermentation has slowed way down. I would really like to get this to 1.010-1.015. Does any body think its possible? Or should I get a starter of white labs 099 ready to finish this?
 
What temp are you at? Heat it up a bit to get her moving again. I'm sure people have pushed this yeast upwards of fifteen percent ABV. I don't know that for a fact, but I guarantee it's been done.
 
What temp are you at? Heat it up a bit to get her moving again. I'm sure people have pushed this yeast upwards of fifteen percent ABV. I don't know that for a fact, but I guarantee it's been done.

I have been sitting at 80 for 2 days. It has been fermenting for 8 days. I started it at 65 and began increasing it 1 degree two to three times daily.
 
3787 is my house belgian yeast, i never used it for anything higher than 10.5% ABV but im always getting attenuation over 90% with this strain (simple sugar additions+low temp mash). In my hands this strain can take a while to finish last few points (like 90% of fermentation done in 4-6days and than two more weeks to finish completely) so i would definitively wait (and monitor SG every several days) before adding 099
 
You're 8 days in and worried with a beer this big? Wait and be patient. Ask again when at least 3-4 weeks have passed. It'll probably work, but give it time.
 
3787 is my house belgian yeast, i never used it for anything higher than 10.5% ABV but im always getting attenuation over 90% with this strain (simple sugar additions+low temp mash). In my hands this strain can take a while to finish last few points (like 90% of fermentation done in 4-6days and than two more weeks to finish completely) so i would definitively wait (and monitor SG every several days) before adding 099


I have had the same experience with 3787. I use it a lot and always find that it takes off fast but takes it's time getting the last few points of attenuation. Often you will think that it is done, but it is in fact just very slowly working.

Give it some more time.
 
Thank you guys. This is my first big beer. I will go down this morning give it a pep talk. Go back in a couple of weeks a recheck.
One more question, how long can I leave it I'm primary on the yeast at 80 degrees?
Thanks
 
Jeepaholic said:
Thank you guys. This is my first big beer. I will go down this morning give it a pep talk. Go back in a couple of weeks a recheck.
One more question, how long can I leave it I'm primary on the yeast at 80 degrees?
Thanks

3-4weeks is standard for me. My fermentation schedule is 64 for 2-3 days then 68 till day 5-6 then 75 till done. Once i fermented hot in 80 and i didnt like it
 
3-4weeks is standard for me. My fermentation schedule is 64 for 2-3 days then 68 till day 5-6 then 75 till done. Once i fermented hot in 80 and i didnt like it


I usually go a little longer than that, 5-6 weeks, but that fermentation schedule is good. Too hot too fast is not good.

I just give it a little more time to be fully sure that it is done. It can fool you sometimes because it slows down at the end.
 
3-4weeks is standard for me. My fermentation schedule is 64 for 2-3 days then 68 till day 5-6 then 75 till done. Once i fermented hot in 80 and i didnt like it

What did you not like at 80? I started it low and slowly increased it trying not to have fusel alcohols.
 
What did you not like at 80? I started it low and slowly increased it trying not to have fusel alcohols.

If you started it low and slowly increased the temp. most of the flavor would be set before you reached 80. You will be fine. Wyeast lists the upper end pf the temp range at 78.

It is when you get it too hot too fast that you get off flavors, mostly fusels.
 
If you started it low and slowly increased the temp. most of the flavor would be set before you reached 80. You will be fine. Wyeast lists the upper end pf the temp range at 78.

It is when you get it too hot too fast that you get off flavors, mostly fusels.

I started it at 65 and over the course of a week took it up to 80.
 
What did you not like at 80? I started it low and slowly increased it trying not to have fusel alcohols.

Im not good at finding and describing flavors but "chemical/solvent" comes to mind. It wasnt very prominent and mellowed with time but it correlated with wicked hangovers in the morning even after just one bottle evening before, i think this also went away with time, maybe it was just in my head (see what i did here :)
 
So I just pulled another sample of this. The gravity dropped another 10 points to put me at 1.020 or 14.3%. I tried it for the first time and it still tastes sweet to me but the alcohol is more hidden than I expected with no hint at all of fusels. I hope the gravity drops a little more as I prefer a very dry Belgium but I can live with it as is.
 
So I just pulled another sample of this. The gravity dropped another 10 points to put me at 1.020 or 14.3%. I tried it for the first time and it still tastes sweet to me but the alcohol is more hidden than I expected with no hint at all of fusels. I hope the gravity drops a little more as I prefer a very dry Belgium but I can live with it as is.

You are probabbly done but give it some more time. Once it is carbed up it will not be as sweet. Carbonation changes the flavor some. Also Belgian yeasts change with time, and with a beer that big it will need some age.
 
3787 ferments like crazy, but in my experience is a slow finisher. This would be especially true of a big beer.

If this is your first big beer, I suggest you get used to the idea of being patient in EVERY stage of it's production. There is no need to rush it into a bottle. After you do bottle, you would be wise to forget it exists for a minimum of a year. That is a big assed beer.
 
I plan to go one month in primary then a couple in secondary on oak chips. I wont be opening a bottle until this years Christmas day.
 
as others have said, a beer this big will take a few weeks to ferment out. belgian yeasts can be slow. steady, but slow.

getting above 10-11% is tricky. hopefully you aerated really well, ideally with pure oxygen.

if/when you add another starter, it's better to add it at high krausen (actively eating sugar) than it is to cold-crash it. if the yeasts wake up after the cold crash in a highly alcoholic environment they are likely to go back to sleep and not ferment at all.

How long do you recommend I leave it at 80? Is that too high to leave for a couple of weeks?
temps for yeast, especially belgians, are a one-way street: you can only go up. if you're at 80, you need to stay there until fermentation is done. if the temps drop the yeast might start going dormant.
 
as others have said, a beer this big will take a few weeks to ferment out. belgian yeasts can be slow. steady, but slow.

getting above 10-11% is tricky. hopefully you aerated really well, ideally with pure oxygen.

if/when you add another starter, it's better to add it at high krausen (actively eating sugar) than it is to cold-crash it. if the yeasts wake up after the cold crash in a highly alcoholic environment they are likely to go back to sleep and not ferment at all.

temps for yeast, especially belgians, are a one-way street: you can only go up. if you're at 80, you need to stay there until fermentation is done. if the temps drop the yeast might start going dormant.

Sounds good. I will give it another week before checking it again, then 3 days after to see if its still moving. I'm at over 14% now. I'm really curious to see how low this can take it.
 
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