How much money can you actually save if you move from extract to a partial mash? I've made 5 batches at an intermediate level using extract and I want to move into partial mashing. I don't have the space or materials to move to AG yet.
Money saved?
- Thread starter MacGruber
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I don't think you can save much because half the grains you would have to buy anyway.
carnevoodoo
Well-Known Member
If you're still buying extract as a majority of your fermentable base, I don't think you'll save a ton. Getting away from extract is really the only way to cut cost on raw materials because it is so expensive.
Donner
Well-Known Member
Although i haven't noticed it with many online retailers, a few places like High Gravity in Tulsa, Okla. will discount ~$2 to move from extract to partial mash. I think it's odd that it wouldn't be a little bit cheaper to do a PM, but i don't run the business so i don't make the rules.
giligson
Well-Known Member
You should ask - how much money will I lose?
Answer - just a little bit. But the beer will taste better and you get to expand the scope of your hobby.
Answer - just a little bit. But the beer will taste better and you get to expand the scope of your hobby.
BeerPressure
Well-Known Member
I just like the idea of buying more grains instead of costly extract.
Dr_Deathweed
Well-Known Member
Donner
Well-Known Member
i guess you could probably save more money if you bought your base grains in bulk and even your specialty grains if you thought you could use them fast enough.
That way you'd only have to shell out for the hops, extract and maybe yeast for each different recipe.
You could really save some money if you bought your extract in bulk, too, but you'd have to brew enough to use it before it went 'bad'.
That way you'd only have to shell out for the hops, extract and maybe yeast for each different recipe.
You could really save some money if you bought your extract in bulk, too, but you'd have to brew enough to use it before it went 'bad'.
Brew-boy
Well-Known Member
None because you buy more toys and gadgets to become a better brewer, money well spent in my book.
Donner
Well-Known Member
as giligson said, PM will give you a lot more control over your beer. I did my first PM a few weeks ago and i'll have some idea in the next few weeks if it improved my beer.
You may not save money, but considering you get more control for the same money, it's not a bad move to make. Also, keep in mind, a lot of the equipment for AG is the same for PM. You could start with a 2 gallon cooler and just move the valve fittings over to a 5 or 10 gallon cooler when you go AG. Or you could start with deathbrewer's method and just another pot.
You may not save money, but considering you get more control for the same money, it's not a bad move to make. Also, keep in mind, a lot of the equipment for AG is the same for PM. You could start with a 2 gallon cooler and just move the valve fittings over to a 5 or 10 gallon cooler when you go AG. Or you could start with deathbrewer's method and just another pot.
BeerPressure
Well-Known Member
I already have all the gear, doing my first AG brew this weekend.If thats the idea, come to the dark side and go AG!!!
(evil laugh)
Grinder12000
Well-Known Member
I think it costs MORE. Reason is that if you want better tasting beer you go PM - HOWEVER - then you use more DME and less LME and DME costs more!
I've found this whole process is costing WAY more then just buying beer - I give half of it away! LOL
I've found this whole process is costing WAY more then just buying beer - I give half of it away! LOL
Donner
Well-Known Member
You can use LME for a PM beer, though, can't you? I mean nothing says you can't use LME. I know lots of people think LME will give your beer the extract 'twang' but i know some of that has to do with the age of the LME and how much turnover there is at the place you bought it.
Or am i wrong?
Just re-read the post. You're just saying that DME will give you better results, hence the cost being worth it, is that right?
Or am i wrong?
Just re-read the post. You're just saying that DME will give you better results, hence the cost being worth it, is that right?
cd2448
Well-Known Member
Sure, I did. I bought a 33lb jerry can of LME and poured and measured it out for each brew - I probably got 6 brews out of it and it cost about $90. It saved me a bit of cash at the time but I'd recommend DME as it's much easier to handle and store for longer periods of time.
Prior to that LME/DME was costing about $20-$25 a batch - and the hefe I made with 6lbs of DME was $30 for the extract. I found with partial mash I'd spend max $10 a batch on actual grain + $15 for the LME as described above - not exactly a saving but the beer was way better!
FYI: I've now gone AG and I got a 55lb "account" of grain from my LHBS for $80. I can get the grain for a batch milled in the store from this account as I need it - which will keep it fresh (no grainmill for me... yet). They will also let me take any base grain I might need (hence the $80 price tag, it's for the most expensive grain they have, Marris Otter).
Donner
Well-Known Member
Just because i'm curious. This 'account', did you basically pay for 55lbs of grain and you can take as much at a time as you want until you hit your 55 lb limit? I just want to make sure i understand the process. I'm not close enough to a LHBS to really pull off a deal like that, but i am intrigued.
It'd be pretty sweet to do that with with LME. I mean if you could buy a bulk barrel of it, but could pull from the newest barrel each time you needed some, that'd be pretty cool. Nice way to save money while still getting a fresh product.
cd2448
Well-Known Member
You have it exactly right - I pay up front for the 55lb bag, then pull from that for each batch I make (usually 7-9lbs a batch). It's neat because I can't mill at home, and want to have it as fresh as possible. The swap for pils malt, or whatever else takes my fancy is good too - but I'm paying the highest for the 55lb bag in the first place. By contrast, I think the base grains are $2-$3 a pound normally, so there's a few dollars saving.
This place is about 20mins drive from me, pretty convenient.
They don't do the same thing for LME because they don't have those big tanks of LME, they just sell it normally in cans (LME) or bags (DME/LME). The bulk thing was a special order I think, they'll do it for you but don't have them kicking around the place just in case someone drops in.
ChemE
Well-Known Member
Man, that really isn't a very good price for Marris Otter. I don't mean to rub it in, I just want others who read this thread about cost savings to know MO and base grains can and should be a heck of a lot cheaper than that. I can get 10# bags of unmilled MO from my LHBS for $7.99 so after 1% tax (its food!) it comes out to $0.81/pound for fresh MO.
This is actually still high compared to people who get in on 55# sacks group buys with their local clubs. I've seen some of these folks reports less than $0.60/pound for MO and $0.46 for 2-row.
If you really want to get inexpensive brews which still taste great you can always SMaSH. I'm doing my second Marris Otter/Fuggle SMaSH Sunday and the recurring ingredient cost is incredibly low. Now I've already got around $500 in equipment for AG so I'm going to have to drink a heck of a lot of beer before it pays out so I still consider it a hobby rather than a money saver. That said here's the cost breakdown:
7# of MO = $5.67 (80 efficiency which is not too hard to hit for me)
0.75 oz Fuggle (first wort hop) (90 minutes) = $1.98 ($2.64/oz including shipping from Freshops)
Nottingham yeast = $0.26 (can get at least five cultures from a $1.29 packet)
Total cost = $7.91 for five gallons or 15 cent per 12 oz. bottle.
This might go as high as $10.00 by the time you throw bottle caps, propane, water, Oxyclean, and Iodophor in but is still incredibly cheaper than extract or PM.
cd2448
Well-Known Member
Wow looks like I'm getting hosed here. There's no where in Philly area selling that cheap plus I'd have to get a grain mill (probably end up with one anyway in the long run). Where are you getting 10lb of grain for $8? I want in!
ChemE
Well-Known Member
My LBHS is a chain called Friar Tuck. I'm pretty pleased with them actually, they have very good grain prices, about 600 different bottled beers and you can even mix and match a six pack for $8 and choose from 200 bottles. Fantastic way to try 6 new brews cheap.
cd2448
Well-Known Member
That makes sense for a group buy but I'm amazed at Friartuck's prices - I could definitely go for 10lb of MO for $8. I'm going to end up milling my own grain. I actually have a corona mill I got for $25 from eBay... bit of elbow grease and I'll be away...
BrianTheBrewer
Well-Known Member
All grain is the way to go. We just tonight picked up our recipe for Oatmeal Stout.
Cost us 35$ for the whole thing. Pretty good if you ask me.
Cost us 35$ for the whole thing. Pretty good if you ask me.
dontman
Well-Known Member
I don't know that I would call it getting hosed exactly. But your feeling that base grains cost 2-3 at LHBS is off-base. I am in the Philly area and both of my LHS charge between $1.20 and $1.40 / lb.
I would love to get a group purchase together. I'm in for 300# or so.
carl spakler
Well-Known Member
Easiest way to quantify the cost difference is to price it out both ways at a few HBS and see where it falls. Now that I brew PM my batches are usually several dollars cheaper, I typically buy no more than 3 lbs DME per batch.
I noticed that beer prices in the stores have raised making the cost of a batch of homebrew even cheaper than the equivalent volume of store bought. A sixer of a good quality craft beer is in the $8-10+ range, that comes out to $64+/2 cases (my typical yield) vs. ~$35 for the ingredients.
Homebrewing isn't about making beer quickly and cheaply. IMO it's a hobby that allows you to make something your way.
I noticed that beer prices in the stores have raised making the cost of a batch of homebrew even cheaper than the equivalent volume of store bought. A sixer of a good quality craft beer is in the $8-10+ range, that comes out to $64+/2 cases (my typical yield) vs. ~$35 for the ingredients.
Homebrewing isn't about making beer quickly and cheaply. IMO it's a hobby that allows you to make something your way.
The original question is sort of 2-fold, but I think you touched on it here. Unless you are extracting at a very high efficiency rate in partial mash (not likely), it will be very similar in cost. It may help you produce better beers and exert more control over the malt profile and aspects like head retention or mouthfeel, but cost wise will not be a significant difference.
I have kept pretty careful track of my brewing expenses and batch costs (even amortizing tax/shipping when applicable) and I have found my all-grain malt cost to be roughly 1/3rd the cost of extract. Now that doesn't account for capital expenditures required to go all-grain, but if you make careful purchases/builds, it takes very few brew days to recoup the cost.
Can you talk your LHBS guys into selling you sacks of grain straight up? Most times they get pallet shipments on a regular basis and even if they won't sell you something out of the back the day you show up, you can probably work out a price given a pre-order for the next shipment. I can get prices competitive with all of the online HBS prices without the shipping cost from my LHBS.
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