First sour

I've been brewing for a little more than 6 years and have never made a sour, even though lambic and Flemish brown are some of my favorite beers. I wanted to make a sour that would be ready by this time next year. So, I wanted to get some suggestions on what to make that would fit that time frame. I've done a lot of reading on the subject but want some tips from you guys.

1. Recipe: I thought about just taking the honey and pineapple out of my American wheat recipe leaving 2 row, Munich, wheat malt, unmalted wheat and light crystal malt.
2. To be ready in a year would it be best to just use Brett instead of a lambic yeast blend? And should I ferment first with an ale strain and add Brett after fermentation is complete?
3. If I decided to add fruit after 6 months or so would it affect it being ready in a year.

Thanks in advance for any help. Also if you have a recipe and process that has worked for you and don't mind sharing I appreciate it

The standard response you'll get is that just adding Brett without additional bacteria will not get you "sour." The bacteria are thought to be the major contributors to the sourness. Brett provides different character depending on when and how its added. The "horse blanket" farmhouse character is more of what is often associated with the Brett. So picking your bugs depends on what you are going for. For a full on "Sour" you'll want to add a blend or a dregs from a commercial sour you enjoy.

The Jolly Pumpkin Calabaza blanca is a sour wheat beer that I enjoy. I've got a clone batch aging right now that I fermented with WLP550 and then added a starter from JP dregs. I can't really comment on how it tastes as a finished product since it's still aging, but the non-soured beer was a pleasant experience so I'm hopeful. Ron Jefferies says that in the height of the summer he only keeps this beer in the oak foudre for 2 weeks since the lactic character comes on so rapidly at that time of the year.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you are going to use dregs then they need to be viable to work. Here's a source that lists the common sour dregs for you: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

Thanks for the response and link. I want to venture into making beer with Brett and bugs and Brett alone. My goal for right now is to make something that will be ready for next summer whether it's a Saison with Brett, Flemish red, Berliner weisse or other. Just looking for advice from those who have experience in this.

WesleyS said:

Saison with Brett, Flemish red, Berliner weisse or other

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Each of those have a different time frame. A berline weisse could be done in a few weeks to a few months; the saison in about six months; the flanders red in 12-18 months; lambic in 12-36 months.

Thanks for the reply. But I'm still looking for advice on this. I want a beer that will be ready to drink in 10-12 months using either Brett alone, bacteria, or Brett and bacteria. What can I brew now that would benefit from that amount of aging, and most likely not need more time than that to be ready? I like both sour and funky so I'm open to whatever you who have experience in these styles of beer suggest. I'm just trying to plan ahead for next year and I know these types of beer need longer aging than what I usually brew.

Try a Flanders I turn mine out in about a year while a Saison with Brett is more in the 4-6 month range. Try something like jamil's Flanders first and later you can change recipes or process for your next. The roselare blend would workwell for what you want.

Any of those could be done within 12 months (as long as you don't add a lot of starch or turbid mash the lambic) but they will benefit from continued aging.

I think a regular saison brewed out (6wks) and then put onto fruit and oak with brett/lacto/pedio is a fun move and takes about as long as you're looking for. I do suggest cold crashing the saison before adding fruit, etc so that you really allow the bugs to take over the second stage I fermentation.

And, if you really keep the O2 out, you'll have a great and balanced beer. Some saison & brett funkiness, bug sourness, all good things.

If you do a saison though, use Saison III, or a DuPont/3711 mix and get that great big saison wildness.

Thanks guys. I'll probably start a Saison that I'll secondary with fruit and Brett. I'll also start a Flanders and lambic soon.
Has anyone had good results pitching the sediment from a commercial bottle for adding Brett or bacteria?

Lots of people do this. It will work fine. If you just want brett, Orval is an easy source of brett brux. If you want brett plus bacteria any non-pasteurized sour will be fine.

WesleyS said:

Has anyone had good results pitching the sediment from a commercial bottle for adding Brett or bacteria?

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I do this in all my sours along side a commercial package of Wyeast and have gotten excellent results.

Supplication clone? RR Supplication dregs and Roeselare.
Lambic? Lambic Blend and Cantillon/Haansen's/homebrewed dregs.
Flanders Red/Brown? Various dregs (JP, RR, Avery, etc) and Roeselare.

+1 on that. Adding dregs or even propped up dregs tends to add depth to the brett/bugs from wyeast and white labs.

Thanks for all the help. I'm looking forward to adding sours and Brett beers to my lineup. Now I just need to stop typing and brew.

I figured I'd give an update. I brewed what was originally meant to be a Saison with Brett, but the LHBS had a slightly out of date vial of WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale yeast for 1/4 of the price. Since I make starters anyways and want the Brett to shine, I bought it over the Saison yeast. I went with my originally planned grain bill:
8lbs pilsner malt
2lbs wheat malt
2lbs unmalted wheat
8oz flaked oats
8oz sugar
OG(1.070)was higher than expected since I got better efficiency with this batch,(still trying to dial in my corona mill)and I took the advise of others with the same mill and crushed till I was scared. I hopped with some hops I already had to target 29 IBUs.(perle, sterling, saaz) I pitched my starter, which included the dregs from a Boulevard Saison-Brett, in the mid 60s. After a couple of days when the krausen subsided a bit, I pitched the dregs from an Orval. It's now been 16 days since brew day and there's still activity. I sampled it today and there is a definite Brett presence there, even though it has a long way to go. I'm glad adding the dregs worked well. Its too early to know if I'll add fruit to this one, I'll just wait and see where it goes as the flavors from the Brett develop. If I do, I'll definitely add something subtle, not overpowering.

Now it's time to brew a sour. I'm thinking of pitching the same yeast(WLP570) with dregs from a JP beer I have and a Lindeman's Cuvée. Any suggestions on different dregs to add instead are welcome.

Very nice! Welcome to the world of sours!

As for dregs... I use whatever I like the aromas and flavors of. If I like it, I'll check the interwebs and see if it's pasteurized, if not, I'll pitch it right in one of my random batches.

Another update here.
As far as the Belgian golden with Brett that I previously posted about, the flavors and aromas of the Brett are coming around. Its leathery with hints of horse and barnyard. Its been in the carboy for about 2 1/2 months now. I still don't know yet if I'm going to add something subtle like peach or apricot or maybe orange peel to this one or just leave it alone. I'll just leave it alone for now and decide that later.

Now on to my sour. I brewed a batch on Aug 26.
Grain bill:
57% Pilsen malt
29% wheat malt
14% unmalted wheat
2 hr boil
Hops- 6 IBUs added at 60 min
To this I pitched a starter of WLP570 and JP Oro de Calabaza dregs. Then a day later the dregs from a Timmermans Oude Gueuze.
Well today, for reasons beyond my control, I had to transfer from primary to a glass carboy. So I took a sample to taste. I'm surprised how sour it is already. There's definitely a Brett presence but it is quite sour as well. I would compare it to the sourness of a DFH Festina Peche. Maybe a touch softer though. It's very good and very drinkable already so I can't wait to see how it progresses. I'm enjoying branching out into sours. Why did I wait so long to do this?