Which subwoofer would you get?

I'm looking at Cerwin Vega Subwoofers to compliment my LS-12's from them. I think i'm looking at there XLS line but i am tossed up between the 15'' and the 12''. This is for a home theater setup and handling the bass when i get a party vibe in me. http://www.cerwin-vega.com/manuals/home/XLS_Brochure.pdf

I think both subs use the same amp. and the only difference i seee in the spec sheet is a slight difference in the freq handling do you think the 15" would have more mechanical noise?

Klipsch..............

trying to keep the matching set. I love my Vega loud speakers!

But the sub can be in another room

Well depends on what you are looking for. Do you just want something that is obnoxiously loud or something that sounds good? Have you read any reviews? Do they have anything without paper cones?

I'm sure it's not apples to apples but I'm driving a 12" sub with the same wattage and I have it at #3 on the volume scale most of the time and that's in a 13 x 22 room with 10' ceilings.

There may not be enough of a difference to matter, but if it were me, I'd always wonder "what if" if I got the 12". I have a Paradigm Servo-15 and I love it.

Is there any way you could audition both in your listening room before deciding?

Get the green one.

Do you know what the modal structure of the room is? that could make a difference if the modal structure of the room pouts those lower frequencies into a nul.

If you're not looking for tight, clean bass for music styles that need it, I always go for more watts or larger cone size. The mechanical noise should be about the same on either models and shouldn't be an issue at all when you drive the sub at listening volume.

With home theater you want it to push air and give you that punch in your chest. Think T-Rex foot step trembles in Jurassic Park.

handling the bass when i get a party vibe in me.

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Unless your party vibe leans towards classical music, I assume you want more thump than tight musical projection from the sub?

in 12" JL Audio W7
in 15" MTX Audio Thunder 8000

Does JL do home audio now? Its been a while since I have been in the market but I used to love their stuff.

hell yeah! and it bangs too.

dataz722 said:

Does JL do home audio now? Its been a while since I have been in the market but I used to love their stuff.

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I think they always have had, just not in the US market.

the ls 12's have plenty of bass for normal listening so yes i guess the purpose of this speaker would just be full on "thump"

AFAIK all i have seen are paper cones. BUT there also half the price of the others and CV does have a reputation. My LS-12's take every watt i toss at them and pump out crystal clear sound.

Elfmaze said:

the ls 12's have plenty of bass for normal listening so yes i guess the purpose of this speaker would just be full on "thump"

AFAIK all i have seen are paper cones. BUT there also half the price of the others and CV does have a reputation. My LS-12's take every watt i toss at them and pump out crystal clear sound.

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More often than not, chuffing and distortions are the result of overdriving the amplifier rather than driving the monitors too hard.

babalu87 said:

Klipsch..............

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boooooooo, buying klipsch would be like buying a sony, it is the best known brand, therefore everyone thinks it's good and they can charge more money for a inferior product.

dataz722 said:

Does JL do home audio now? Its been a while since I have been in the market but I used to love their stuff.

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you can run anything, anywhere, just depends on how you run it.

look at elemental designs who primarily does car audio until recently branching out to the home market.

I dabbled in car audio for awhile. But a 15" paper cone? I mean, I guess it could sound good... maybe? If the goal is power, then might as well move more air with the 15. But I don't know, I can't imagine either sounding really good. And, I can't really imagine a need for 15" sub for all but the craziest of home sound systems. Which might be what you're going for.

That being said, I once had 4 15"s in my house all wired up with the ability to push 350 watts rms. I think I may have gotten to 250 on each before I started feeling sick... Power can be fun.

I had a 15" Cerwin Vega for years, before I got my Mordaunt-Shorts. A 15" speaker travels about 1/2 the distance a 12" would for the same volume. This keeps the field coils in the center of the magnet and gives a more linear response.

Note: My business partner was in the high-end audio business (California Audio Labs, Absolute Audio and Theta Digital) for decades and she had a very low opinion of the Klipsch line. When asked about them, she would cup her hands around her mouth and start singing.

david_42 said:

I had a 15" Cerwin Vega for years, before I got my Mordaunt-Shorts. A 15" speaker travels about 1/2 the distance a 12" would for the same volume. This keeps the field coils in the center of the magnet and gives a more linear response.

Note: My business partner was in the high-end audio business (California Audio Labs, Absolute Audio and Theta Digital) for decades and she had a very low opinion of the Klipsch line. When asked about them, she would cup her hands around her mouth and start singing.

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Theta Digital.

I am amazed how they stay in business selling 2 or 3 components a year. Oh, that's cause their dealers are the only ones buying the gear.

This is what I have, but they have redesigned it since I got it, now it looks like the port fire down, mine shoot out the back where the amp is and mine is 550w, looks like this one is 500w, still freaking powerful and a house shaker. I was lucky and got mine before the price raise, plus if you buy three or more speakers they give you 15% off.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=618



We had a friend staying at the house one time. She was in the back room on the opposite side of the house (70ft away), we were watching a movie and I had the sub on levels I though were appropriate considering there was someone sleeping in the house. Well she woke up the next morning and said that the sub was shaking the window in here room and it sounded like there was a helicopter landing on our roof. I smiled

...whatever happened to the days of concrete pipes with large speakers atop of them?
They were fun!

Reminds me of the time a buddy had nearly all the residents in a large dorm, a concrete structure, to play the same record, in synch,, at high volume,,, the concrete was carrying the sound all the way across and up, funny stuff.

beergears said:

...whatever happened to the days of concrete pipes with large speakers atop of them?
They were fun!

Reminds me of the time a buddy had nearly all the residents in a large dorm, a concrete structure, to play the same record, in synch,, at high volume,,, the concrete was carrying the sound all the way across and up, funny stuff.

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SonoSubs are the next step. Using the tubes originally designed for concrete forms to provide the structure for truly huge thump in home theater audio.

mmb said:

SonoSubs are the next step. Using the tubes originally designed for concrete forms to provide the structure for truly huge thump in home theater audio.

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Yep, I hear, not literally though, that they put out a great sound. My choice was between a SVS cylinder sub, HSU (http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html) and Elemental Designs and ended up going with the later and couldn't be happier.

For anyone with time and want to read lots of info on subs and some of the best ones in prep of buying one or just out of curiosity, check this out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150


Craig rate my sub at a 96, so I am not sure why it is not in the list anymore.

The eD A5-350 is an amazing value. Yes, it is ugly. I even think it is ugly. But it delivers a deep an palpable bass, and is terrific on music. It loses a bit of musicality in the 40-80 Hz arena to subs like the PB-13 Ultra, but overall, it is quite listenable.

The Score ? ... Home Theater 50 ... Music 46, for a total of 96

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That spec sheet doesn't list how loud each sub gets or the driver sensitivity. The 15" probably gets a lot louder for the same amount of power. I'd go with the 15.

And for the people criticizing those subs because of the paper cones - what are you guys smoking? Paper is super light and super strong and is still used in ultra high end drivers because it works so well.

I'm a Hi Fi nut - and personally use home built proac 25 clones for my stereo setup . . but for my home theater I still use my old Cerwin Vega VS12's from college and they are fantastic home theater speakers.

I am amazed how they stay in business selling 2 or 3 components a year. Oh, that's cause their dealers are the only ones buying the gear.

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ATI owns Theta now and it's really gone down hill. But, yeah, not everyone can drop $30,000 on their D-to-A.

humann_brewing said:

This is what I have, but they have redesigned it since I got it, now it looks like the port fire down, mine shoot out the back where the amp is and mine is 550w, looks like this one is 500w, still freaking powerful and a house shaker. I was lucky and got mine before the price raise, plus if you buy three or more speakers they give you 15% off.

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+1 to Elemental Designs. I have their A5-350 and it creates a great compliment to my home theater. There are other great sub companies like SVS, HSU, and AV123. For inexpensive subs, I remember looking at a BIC subwoofer that should fit your price range.

How much are you willing to spend? FYI: Subs don't have to be the same brand as your other speakers, that's mainly important for the front 3 speakers. If you have the cash, check out a JL Audio Fathom f113

would like to get it for $300 But will go to 5 if really necessary. I'm a big fan of good audio doesn't have to cost alot. Hence why no reciever(sure i will need one someday). But the most expensive thing i bought so far was my SX1800 PA to drive the LS12's. I also have a Buttkicker LFE shaker. So the sub is supplimental i guess

Hell, you brew your own beer, why not build your own sub? Head over to www.diyaudio.com. I've built several speakers, including a sub, and am getting into building components. It's a blast.

Brett3rThanU said:

How much are you willing to spend? FYI: Subs don't have to be the same brand as your other speakers, that's mainly important for the front 3 speakers. If you have the cash, check out a JL Audio Fathom f113

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well, yeah if I had the cash there wouldn't be a choice to make

One of the threads on diyaudio.com showed an installation where a guy built a square column down into his basement that vented into the living room floor. The column had six or eight 10-inch woofers that faced into the column, and the entire basement became the enclosure.

What an awesome setup!

im goin with 2 15's, 4 10's, and 8 4's. custom boxes of course! technics makes a very nice system 4 10's, 2 6's and 4 3's. that thing was bought in early 90's for $1500 and it still radles the windows in the whole house.

I have built boxed in the past, I was just hoping to get something that was ready to go. For the $300 range i can barly build a basic box with sub and amp. If i wasn't buying a house and in the middle of my brew sculpture build i might concider it.

You want the best Subwoofer for your house?

Get a Martin Logan Depth-I 8'' 900 watt. Its the best we sale at my location; but the price tag is WAY to high for my blood. But any mirage, martin logan or definitive subwoofer will be the best investment to your home audio experience.

Dalarast said:

You want the best Subwoofer for your house?

Get a Martin Logan Depth-I 8'' 900 watt. Its the best we sale at my location; but the price tag is WAY to high for my blood. But any mirage, martin logan or definitive subwoofer will be the best investment to your home audio experience.

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I once went to the 2003 Vacuum State Of The Art Conference And Show - a hi fi show for serious audio nuts. Dr. Bruce Edgar had a horn loaded 12" subwoofer in a cabinet the size of a decent kegerator that was 107 db/w/1m. Which means that it put out the same loudness with 10 watts as a normal sub would put out with about 800 watts. After one particularly powerful track with church organs that were shaking the room, I asked "so how many watts were you sending to that thing?" He kind of laughed and said, "about 1".

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/vsacdg.htm

The sub is the fridge sized thing on the right:

Well Klipsch is known for their horn loaded design. Its a proven system, as seen by above with Dr. Edgar's. He must of had a great insulation in that cabinet to insure not vibration affected the sound quality. But I guess using just 1wt and using the horn really pushes/directs the sound where it needs to go (and not like some where the papercone directs the sound; but the cabinet vibrates and sound is loss.

I would go with a bag end, flat to 8 hz...

Well, maybe not, if you are looking at just those 2, go with the 15, chances are its more efficient and it has a larger frequency range. personally I would get a Klipsch or something, mostly to match my other speakers, but eh. Oh, and Klipsch doesn't really have any horn loaded subs, the have horn loaded lows in their heritage line and horn loaded hi, mid-hi, mid-low, and low drivers in their cinema line, but the subs are just ported. To get an effective horn loaded sub for the reasons you want a sub, it would have to be huge, even a large folded horn sub from a PA is really best till something like 40, otherwise they get too big to move around

machinelf said:

There may not be enough of a difference to matter, but if it were me, I'd always wonder "what if" if I got the 12". I have a Paradigm Servo-15 and I love it.

Is there any way you could audition both in your listening room before deciding?

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+1 to paradigm. IMO they are the best bang for the buck you can get. I have a PDR-10 that I love. it's very versatile as far as movies and music goes.

Jim Karr said:

...a guy built a square column down into his basement that vented into the living room floor. The column had six or eight 10-inch woofers that faced into the column, and the entire basement became the enclosure.

What an awesome setup!

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A good friend had the idea of building a speaker in the *whole* basement, with a small speaker at one end and a horn -like the inside of a snail shell, but a single plane, as natural amplifier. He had done the math and everything, but never built it. The theorical amplification is amazing high IIRC.