no fermentation with safale us-05

Hi all! This is my first post here. I've been brewing ales for several months and I decided to give ciders making a go. I went to my local homebrew store and they suggested safale us-05. I bought two gallons of Whitehouse Apple Cider. I add 1/4 brown sugar to 1 gallon carboy and 1/2 apple juice concentrate to the another with the cider. I pitched about 1/4 of the pack of yeast into each of my 1 gallon carboys and after 5 days I am getting zero signs of fermentation. I didn't add any yeast nutrients. Should I have? I'm a little confused to what my next step should be. Should I not have used apple cider and just gone with regular apple juice? Help...

xkristoferx said:

Hi all! This is my first post here. I've been brewing ales for several months and I decided to give ciders making a go. I went to my local homebrew store and they suggested safale us-05. I bought two gallons of Whitehouse Apple Cider. I add 1/4 brown sugar to 1 gallon carboy and 1/2 apple juice concentrate to the another with the cider. I pitched about 1/4 of the pack of yeast into each of my 1 gallon carboys and after 5 days I am getting zero signs of fermentation. I didn't add any yeast nutrients. Should I have? I'm a little confused to what my next step should be. Should I not have used apple cider and just gone with regular apple juice? Help...

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Look at the package of the cider, to ensure there is not sodium benzoate or potassium sorbate (preservatives). If there aren't any preservatives, it'll go! 1/4 package isn't much, but it should be enough to get it going.

I double checked on the apple packaging and on their website and I saw nothing about any preservatives at all. I thought of that at first but I can't find any thing....

How many days has it been? I did a cider with 05 recently and it took a couple days for it to get going. Same with a sweetpotato mead I made. We talk about a 72 hour lag time with yeasts anyway, and with higher grav stuff it sometimes takes a bit longer anyway.

it's been about 5 days and i'm getting zero signs of fermenation. only thing that has changed is a thin film on the bottom of each carboy.

btw this is the Apple Cider i used.

White House Foods - 128oz White House Apple Cider

Its been 5 days...

Can you take a grav reading? I would check grav and add more of that packet of yeast to it.

That's a good idea. Should I add some yeast nutrients today?

Fyi, this is the juice I used.

http://www.whitehousefoods.com/Products/Apple-Juice/128oz-White-House-Apple-Cider.aspx

Yeah it wouldn't hurt at all.

Thank you! I'll check the gravity and take it from there.

xkristoferx said:

That's a good idea. Should I add some yeast nutrients today?

Fyi, this is the juice I used.

White House Foods - 128oz White House Apple Cider

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It doesn't say "no preservatives" anywhere on the front of the label, and the description doesn't say "no preservatives" so my guess is that it's loaded with preservatives.

xkristoferx said:

I double checked on the apple packaging and on their website and I saw nothing about any preservatives at all. I thought of that at first but I can't find any thing....

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If the ingredients say anything other than 100% apple juice and ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), I'd be suspicious of it being preserved.

I dunno, just did some googling, and it appears that when they say 100% natural, they mean no preservatives whatsoever. I went to nutrition label watch and although they don't list the cider, they the juice has NOTHING, not even ascorbic acid. I'm not seeing any preservatives on any of the websites I looked at.

Revvy said:

I dunno, just did some googling, and it appears that when they say 100% natural, they mean no preservatives whatsoever. I went to nutrition label watch and although they don't list the cider, they the juice has NOTHING, not even ascorbic acid. I'm not seeing any preservatives on any of the websites I looked at.

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Could we be overlooking the possibility of bad yeast?

UpstateMike said:

Could we be overlooking the possibility of bad yeast?

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I don't think we're overlooking anything. But I vote for underpitching.

Revvy said:

I don't think we're overlooking anything. But I vote for underpitching.

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One pack of US-05 should be good for 5 gallons. I would have thought using 1/4 pack per gallon on 2 gallons would have been good. But since The Info Sheet says the pack should be used in 7 days, perhaps making a starter out of the rest would be a good idea.

I don't recall seeing what temperature this is fermenting at, either. But this yeast is tolerant of temps between 59-75F, so that probably isn't an issue.

The temp they are fermenting at is 68ish. I got some yeast nutrients and I was thinking about adding some more yeast with some nutrients or getting a different kind of apple cider... like maybe something from wholefoods.

I just had a thought. Should I be using apple juice and not apple cider? Would the spices in the cider be affecting the yeasts ability to reproduce?

xkristoferx said:

I just had a thought. Should I be using apple juice and not apple cider? Would the spices in the cider be affecting the yeasts ability to reproduce?

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Using cider is fine. What spices are in the cider? You didn't mention them previously.

I would pitch more yeast from another package. How did you pitch your yeast? Did you add it dry or rehydrate?

GinKings said:

Using cider is fine. What spices are in the cider? You didn't mention them previously.

I would pitch more yeast from another package. How did you pitch your yeast? Did you add it dry or rehydrate?

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that maybe the problem cause there is not a list of the added spices to the cider.

i pitched them dry. i'm going to get another gallon of just apple juice, re-hydrate the yeast with some nutrients and see what happens.

xkristoferx said:

that maybe the problem cause there is not a list of the added spices to the cider.

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did you buy "spiced cider"? Most ciders are just that- cider. It's very rare to buy a spiced cider, but almost all of them have preservatives.

xkristoferx said:

i pitched them dry. i'm going to get another gallon of just apple juice, re-hydrate the yeast with some nutrients and see what happens.

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From the Safale US-05 Info Sheet:

Pitching instructions:

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

UpstateMike said:

Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

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i used this method when i pitched my yeast.

i went to my local homebrew store and picked up from Wyeast nutrients and put 1/4 teaspoon into my 1 gallon "cider" and it went bananas! it has since calmed way down but i am getting a bubble from my bubbler every 3-4 seconds... success?