does fast force carbonation = green beer?

I wonder why so many people would want to carbonate really fast in a keg?

Won't the brew taste green and not be fully conditioned only a few days?

I am just starting kegging, my first batches are in bottles... and have taken a while to condition, they tasted OK at three weeks in bottles but get better every week after.

How is it not the same with Kegging? If the same standards apply, then why would anyone want to do anything but the slow steady carbonation method in a keg, thus allowing the natural conditioning a brew will need to taste finished.

Force carbing green beer will result in carbonated green beer. Force carbing conditioned beer is fine, provided you give it a little time for the newly-formed carbonic acid to balance with the rest of the beer.

I force carb in a keg usually 5 weeks after brewday, but don't drink it until 6 weeks.

A longer Primary/secondary time in this case is a good idea then?

That's at least how I do it.

No extra time in fermentation needed.

You just need to remember NOT to skip the 'conditioning' phase. Just because the beer is carbonated does not mean it is ready to drink.

When you bottle and 'carbonate naturally' this 'carbonation phase' is also serving the function of giving the bottled beer time to mature. Kegged beer needs the same care. Heck, even bottled beer that is fully carbonated often needs an extra week or 2 to mature before the green taste goes away.

Forced carbonation allows you to send the beer off to storage at full carbonation for its 'conditioning' phase. It does not do anything, really, to shorten the time it takes to make good beer. (It arguably makes it take fewer manhours for the production procss--- but the time from wort to finished beer remains pretty much the same)

Any 'extra' secondary time (bulk aging) does count as conditioning. Conditioning doesn't have to occur in the keg/bottle.

I"m lazy about going from secondary to keg, for this reason. I have sound racking practices, and CO2 blankets the carboy's headspace. An extra week or 2 in secondary is 1-2 weeks sooner to drinking time!
By the same token i don't rapidly force carb, again to enforce patience in aging (I'm not a patient man)

cool, thanks for the info!

My first kegged brew is slow force carbing in a 55 F garage at 22 psi... Its been carbing in the garage about 10 days now while i set up my new freezer. I am getting a Johnsons temp regulator tomorrow. I hope to chill my new brew over the next few days to 38 to 40 degrees and pull the PSI back to 9 or 10, then check taste it this weekend. However I am not sure if 14 days slow force kegging will be enough conditioning to make it ready for drinking just yet. I May have to sit on it a while longer.

I am just trying to find a good balance with this aging process. I know that many say it's faster in the keg, but I doubt it will be that much faster in the long run. Just a lot more easy due to the simple means of ONE keg vs. so many freaking bottles!!!

no matter how you slice it, life with "beer on the way, a corney keg set up, and a keezer being built" is a good life!!

malkore said:

Any 'extra' secondary time (bulk aging) does count as conditioning. Conditioning doesn't have to occur in the keg/bottle.

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Agreed-- not all conditioning has to happen in the bottle.


However, beer does change again once carbonated so even 'conditioned' beer that is force carbed will need some time before the final product state is reached.

kornkob said:

You just need to remember NOT to skip the 'conditioning' phase. Just because the beer is carbonated does not mean it is ready to drink.

When you bottle and 'carbonate naturally' this 'carbonation phase' is also serving the function of giving the bottled beer time to mature.

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I am beginning to get my head wrapped around this. I only have one batch kegged so far so it is all new to me.

My plan with the next batch is to naturally carb in the keg at room temps, them throw the keg into the kegerator after a month or so. Hopefully this will give both the carb and the conditioning enough time to work.

Some people hit a keg with a quick shot of co2 to seal the keg after transferring from Primary/secodary, then store it (some people have kegs and kegs and kegs just sitting waiting around for rotation). For this situation, the beer is already aged when they burst carb it for ~30 hours to serve.

good stuff in here. I'm getting into kegging (have a batch conditioning now) and these thoughts were on my mind as well...

I like to keep the process simple. I pretty much just rack to a secondary for a week then cold crash in the fridge (35degrees) for 2 days. From there the beer gets kegged.

I usually keg and crash carb in the morning and am drinking delicious beer that night. (or early afternoon depending on how thirsty I am).

Alot of these thoughts depend on whether you are filtering or conditioning in your keg. I "fast force carb" all of the beer that I filter. I force carb it in a few minutes and then enjoy it! I like less carbonated beers, so am not so concerned about the moderate carbonation I get from agitating the keg for 10 minutes under 50psi with a bit of headspace. Temperature is a critical component here, too. Fast force carbing at freezing will give you quicker CO2 uptake. As an aside, it is easy to bottle from your keg at or slightly below freezing.

I put my keg in the freezer last night (after my Johnson temp regulator was holding the temps at or around 40 degrees)... only 10 days of slow force carbonation at 55 F and now cold crashing it at 40 F with 12 PSI and here is my outcome: a touch under carbed but very good tasting brew. Kind of reminded me of a scottish creme ale... very tasty!
It is an amber that i added a bit of gravity to with dme and some brown sugar. Yum!
It seemed much less green then my bottled IPA that has been bottled 3 weeks now, so I am very happy with the outcome!

So not to beat a dead horse, but if I keg a beer, purge it of air, force carb it, then set the keg aside at room temp - will it continue to condition after being force carbed? Would it be BETTER to rack beer into keg, chill down, force carb and leave in the fridge? I understand that it will take time for the beer to condition, but it seems to me that you run less risk of getting off flavors/oxidation etc by purging and carbing. Right? I will be kegging my first batch in a couple weeks, so I am trying to absorb as much as possible.

Some styles (espically a heffewizen) are ready to serve as soon as they are carbonated. I can brew a batch on Sunday, keg it the following sunday, and serve it on Tuesday. 9days.

Others need weeks or months of conditioning, and will be green no matter what method of carbonating you use.

I am new to kegging, but i have brewed and drank my share of home brew.
The first time i kegged ( a week ago) i took my IPA that was in 2ndary for 4 weeks, put it in the fridge overnight (still in carboy) to knock any leftover yeast out of suspension.
then kegged say 24 hrs later, i force carbed with 35 psi, did the shaking and rolling thing, was ok like 2 hours later..but the carbonation did change after a few days, it got better...i guess it settled in more with finer bubbles and all sizes.so really, i think at least 36 to 48 hrs (if aged already in 2ndary) will get you a pub style brew on tap in yer own home..WHOO_HOO!!! just my limited experience
Also , i have a belgian tripple in the bottle..i would never keg that..its been 3 months and i wont drink it til late sept/october, so to me certain beers deserve and require certain elements to bring out their natural beauty .
an APA or light / less complex beers i think can be delivered sooner.Just because freshness goes well with light and summery hot weather brews..

I for one don't really see the point of using a secondary if you keg. I've done 4 force carbed batches and just use adequate primary fermentation then rack to a keg and purge with CO2. The keg will serve as a secondary in the fact that additional yeast and particulate will settle to the bottom, then I usually just dump the first glass or two that contain any particulate that get sucked up by the dip tube.

zanemoseley said:

I for one don't really see the point of using a secondary if you keg. I've done 4 force carbed batches and just use adequate primary fermentation then rack to a keg and purge with CO2. The keg will serve as a secondary in the fact that additional yeast and particulate will settle to the bottom, then I usually just dump the first glass or two that contain any particulate that get sucked up by the dip tube.

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to me , depends on the beer, my rule is , bigger the beer , longer the wait.
try a oatmeal stout 2 weeks after primary, then 8 weeks after, big difference.

But what difference would you see using primary, secondary then keg versus just using a keg as a secondary vessel?

78kombi said:

to me , depends on the beer, my rule is , bigger the beer , longer the wait.
try a oatmeal stout 2 weeks after primary, then 8 weeks after, big difference.

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its just my schedule.
1 primary bucket ( yes i still use it)
4 carboys
2 kegs
if i had more kegs i guess i wouldnt need the carboys.but i already own em so...

I still secondary before kegging. I like to clear out the beer as much as possible before kegging it. So I'll add gelatin into the secondary to clear it, and then when I rack to the keg, I also avoid getting all the yeast and other misc crap that have settled in the secondary.