Belgian Candi Syrup

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Jaxford

Jaxford

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Who has experience adding Belgian Candi Syrup to the boil? Wondering about the difference in flavor and color relative to when it was added.

To be clear this is the caramelized beet sugar used in traditional Belgian ales.
 
As Belgian styles are my fav to brew lemme give u some sucrose 101: First of all u don't have to waste your money on Belgian candy rock sugars or syrups! All these are is plain old sucrose- table sugar. The Trappist breweries don't use rocks or that syrup because it's a waste of money and it's the same as white table sugar- just reconstituted. I make my own amber and dark candy rocks at home. Here's how(I do it). In a non-sticke sauce pan combine: 1 heaping tsp. yeast nutrient, 1 cp. water (tap), 1 cp. plain white table sugar. Heat over med-high heat until this simmers aggressively. Stir a lot. As the water boils out the sucrose will begin to darken. Now just let go until you get your desired darkness- when this achieved, remove from heat and pour this liquid onto tin foil stretched on a big cookie sheet. Allow to cool- completly! you've just made candy sugar of any shade for less than a buck. DO NOT BE RIPPED OFF BY THESE PEOPLE SELLING THIS FOR MORE THAN WHAT IT IS!!!! In the spirit of true Belgian brewing simplicity and practicality rule. Prost!!
 
Tell you what... I'm going to use the purchased one this time around but since I plan to brew a few successive batches of Belgian ale I'll make my own syrup next time. That way I'll have something to compare to.

My primary question though was "how do I apply it to the wort and when"?
 
Hah I just asked this in a 'oh crap I'm about to brew and don't know what is up with the LME being listed separate with no time'... I just removed pot from heat, added my LME and then rock candy. Grab a beer and keep stirring!
 
Just throw it in at the beginning of the boil. First, I like to dissolve it on the stove top in 2 cps. of water so it does'nt get stuck to the bottom of the kettle.
 
RRBBGG27013 said:
Just throw it in at the beginning of the boil. First, I like to dissolve it on the stove top in 2 cps. of water so it does'nt get stuck to the bottom of the kettle.
Click to expand...

I've heard that some of the flavor dissipates if in the boil longer. Have you noticed that?
 
dark candi, inc. syrup is not just table sugar. You might know that if you have ever used it. And it is the REAL DEAL used in Belgian by monks.

Some of the more famous breweries add it 45 in during a 90 min boil. Your boil will stop for 5 min before ramping back up. Stir the wort really well so nothing burns!

The D2 will color your beer the most. With 1 to 1.5 pounds per 5.5 gallons of wort will give you a deep red in your finished beer.
 
Candy sugar is just regular sugar that has been "inverted" to split the glucose and fructose molecules that make sucrose and heated to produce desired colors and maybe flavor.

You can invert your own with a little citric acid and some heat, but it really isn't necessary because the yeast produce there own invertase to invert the sugar themselves.

So using the light candy sugar for a trippel would be a waste of money. Something that use the dark candy sugar for flavor and color would make me more likely to use the candy sugar over plain sucrose and specialty malts for color.

Or I'd make my own rock candy sugar...

MAKING YOUR OWN BELGIAN CANDY SUGAR
 
B-Dub said:
dark candi, inc. syrup is not just table sugar. You might know that if you have ever used it. And it is the REAL DEAL used in Belgian by monks.

Some of the more famous breweries add it 45 in during a 90 min boil. Your boil will stop for 5 min before ramping back up. Stir the wort really well so nothing burns!

The D2 will color your beer the most. With 1 to 1.5 pounds per 5.5 gallons of wort will give you a deep red in your finished beer.

You can't believe everything you read........:D
Click to expand...

Oh that's precious, I'll take your advice and not believe a word you wrote. And no I've not had to waste money on those silly syrups! Spending money on useless crap that's overpriced is distinctly un-Belgian style brewing... Especially Trappists. You'd know that if you weren't listening to candy reps so much! An influential American-Belgian brewer started out briefly using "Belgian candy sugar" for sugar additions in his beers until the high cost (4$/pound) drove him to send it to an accredited labrotory for analysis and what were the results? Good ol' sucrose! You know the stuff you load on your corn flakes?! The sucrose was and is just reconstituted into rocks!!!
 
I know brewers that have been to Belgium and brewed with brewers there.

They used candi syrup.

Believe what you want.
 
Make your own invert sugar! I just canned up a bunch of sugar syrup for a 120 minute-esque IPA. I made a thick syrup in a pot of sugar and water, added citric acid at a rate of 1 gram per two pounds of table sugar. I heated to 250F, diluted back down to make a thick syrup, then pressure canned. I was shooting for as light as possible, but you can hold the syrup on the stove at 270F for awhile to get a nice dark candi syrup (it might take 30-45 minutes, or more). I recommend the use of a candy thermometer. I also recommend keeping some water available to add to the solution to keep the temperature around 270F.
 
B-Dub said:
dark candi, inc. syrup is not just table sugar. You might know that if you have ever used it. And it is the REAL DEAL used in Belgian by monks.

Some of the more famous breweries add it 45 in during a 90 min boil. Your boil will stop for 5 min before ramping back up. Stir the wort really well so nothing burns!

The D2 will color your beer the most. With 1 to 1.5 pounds per 5.5 gallons of wort will give you a deep red in your finished beer.

You can't believe everything you read........:D
Click to expand...

So what do you think that Brewer did? He stopped wasting his money researched what most of the Trappist were using for sugar additions and bought a butt load of table sugar-like the monks- and continued to brew great beer but without the "candy" ripoff! He makes his own dark sugar or uses table sugar and malts to color his dubbel and dark strong. So, continue to be starry eyed about "candy sugar" and purchasing it because these folks need to eat too, I guess... Read PP 167-171 In BREW LIKE A MONK or P 196 of Radical Brewing. Heres some beginner text for you. Save that money for grains, yeast, and hops, my man!!!
 
B-Dub said:
Rocks are for crackheads like you!!

I know brewers that have been to Belgium and brewed with brewers there.

They used candi syrup!!

For a guy that claims to have read BLAM, you don't sound that educated on Belgian brewing.

Believe what you want.
Click to expand...

:confused: So you're telling me syrup isn't just "granulated crystals, obtained from cooling down strongly concentrated sucrose-solutions boiled at very high temperatures" ? BLAM P 167. OH!!! You think it's magic! You're losin' this bro, better pump the brakes.:mug:
 
B-Dub said:
My buddy knows brewers in Belgium and tells me they use candi syrup.

Even Pannepot has 4% rocks and 4% syrup.

This is straight from the brewers.

Kind of funny that you seem so hard pressed to believe that this COULD be true.
Click to expand...

The point that you need to digest is that sucrose, table sugar, candi sugar- and your favorite, drum roll please- syrup are the same thing just in different forms! It's sugar-sucrose! All those products you waste money on, are makable at home at a fraction of the cost!!! Now what about that can't you understand??
 
Have you used any of the Dark Candi syrup RRBBGG27013?

How about Dark Strong recipe for us?

The syrups might be the same sugar profile, but the flavors created during the process are as individual as different malts.
 
Candi sugar or candi syrup is quite easy to make at home, so I'm told.

While we are speaking of sucrose in various forms, the flavor of dark candi syrup is truly special. The candi sugar rocks are worthless.
 
If you add sucrose to the boil and want a little residual sweetness in the beer when should it be added? This would be in a dark belgian.
 
B-Dub said:
Have you used any of the Dark Candi syrup RRBBGG27013?

How about Dark Strong recipe for us?

The syrups might be the same sugar profile, but the flavors created during the process are as individual as different malts.[/QUOTE


My point, simply is that they're all made with sucrose, and it is not necessary to buy commercial examples to have these products for your homebrew. That wonderful flavor we all get from the dark syrups is a result of the caramelization of said sucrose during the heating process. Look, B-Dub, we havn't agreed on much except maybe the satisfaction and flavorful notes we get from adding sugars (whatever form) to our beers. I do hope it's not the only thing we'll agree on... but if it is, I guess sugar additions would be just fine!:tank:
Click to expand...
 
it is my understanding that the 'candi syrup' the Jamil Zainasheff uses in his Belgian Dubbel recipe in 'brewing classic styles' is somewhat related to light molasses- it contains by-products of the sugar refining process similar to the ones that give molasses its distinctive taste

i WILL certainly agree that the candy sugar rocks you see at your LHBS are nothing but inverted table sugar and can be duplicated by boiling a simple syrup to the desired color

read page 236 in 'brewing classic styles' by zainasheff and palmer and tell me they are wrong...
 
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I had no idea of the controversy this would bring:)

Has anyone brewed with both the commercial syrup and home made syrup?

Interested in the difference.
 
Whisler85 said:
it is my understanding that the 'candi syrup' the Jamil Zainasheff uses in his Belgian Dubbel recipe in 'brewing classic styles' is somewhat related to light molasses- it contains by-products of the sugar refining process similar to the ones that give molasses its distinctive taste

i WILL certainly agree that the candy sugar rocks you see at your LHBS are nothing but inverted table sugar and can be duplicated by boiling a simple syrup to the desired color

read page 236 in 'brewing classic styles' by zainasheff and palmer and tell me they are wrong...
Click to expand...

Good enough, I'll check it out, thanx!:mug:
 
Jaxford,

Sorry to mess with your thread.

RRBBGG27013 and I agreed to drink some beer together and talk about our beliefs.

You get two strong opinions and stand back brother!!

Beer is the ultimate equalizer.

BTW, don't use mole-asses in any beer!!

B-Dub out!!
 
I have bought the store candi sugar and inverted my own for a couple of belgians I brewed. I can honestly say the one I bought from the store was a bit better tasting. I added the sugar to both of them in the primary during the height of fermentation.
But, the fact that they were two different types of beerr and the fact that I didn't fully solidify my inverted sugar would not make an good comparison. The inverted beer turned out a bit sweet at the end.
I would agree with people in this thread that say to just invert your own sugar. It's pretty easy and I plan on doing it again when I do another belgian. Saving a bit of money on ingredients is a good thing. :)
 

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