RIS 2nd Runnings - Need help w/ gravity

Couldn't find much through searching, so I'll ask ya'll here. I did my RIS yesterday, came out 1.088 (yay!), and then pulled another 5 1/2 gal of 2nd runnings from the mash tun. All appeared to be well in brewtown, I boiled, cooled, and pitched the RIS, cleaned up a little, then went to work on the 2nd batch.

It looked and smelled quite dark going into the kettle, and measured between 5.5 - 6 gallons. I didn't take any readings because the wort was still warmish (130F) from its mash earlier. I boiled for 45 minutes total, adding a hop addition at 10 minutes remaining. Then, I just turned off the burner, and let the kettle sit for about 3 hours. (College football was on TV.)

Came back, temp had dropped from 210F to about 145F. Being safe enough for plastic, I racked into a clean fermenter, and brought it into the house to continue cooling. Checked on it this morning, and it was about 80F, so I pitched my yeast (S-04) dry, and then realized OH CRAP - I forgot to take a hydro reading.

Grabbed one quickly, and this is only at 1.020. Oops.

Going to the LHBS now, going to get some extract to boost it with. Anyone have a favorite for a vaguely dry stout?

OK Im trying to understand what happened here. You made a second batch from your RIS, with your seond runnings in hopes of making a lighter dry stout? with an OG of 1.020? This is extremely low..what was your grain bill?or recipe? With the first batch of RIS did you just mash out with no sparge? An than sparge the rest for the second batch? I would have taken a reading of the second runnings and calculated for the 130 degree temp. I know I didn't answer your question about extract but Im just trying to figure out your recipes. It just seems that 1.02 is very low for your sparge if you didn't sparge the grains already.

Jay

Yeah. Looking back, I needed to adjust my method slightly. (The recipe is just the 08-08-08 RIS in sig/elsewhere)

The exact procedure was:
- Mash with 5.5 gal over ... i don't remember. 90 minutes?
- Sparge 1: 3.75 gal into kettle
(at this point, my RIS is on to start boil, and I'm frantically fetching hot tap water, no-boil, for my 2nd runnings)
- Sparge 2: somewhere around 4 gal into set-aside bucket
- Sparge 3: roughly 2 gal into set-aside bucket
then boil 6 gal down to 5 gal.

Seperate of this trainwreck, brewing yesterday was interesting. I'm pretty sure I only used 1 of my 2 ounces of Magnum, because I suspect the other ounce went straight onto the floor when it boiled over upon adding.

Also pitched my poor little WLP051 California V onto it without a starter, because I never bought any extract, and I never got my stirplate working. (It's been a long week) Not to mention, I had to grind out all 18 lbs grain, and didn't even dough in till 1pm.


I was dinking around the kitchen a while ago. Then it hit me. I boiled up 1 qt water with 1 lb light brown sugar, 1/2 lb dark brown sugar, and however much molasses came out of the bottle. About 1/2 cup? No clue. Didn't measure. Anyways, heated those to just under a boil, and they're cooling on the stove right now.

I think I'm just gonna pitch that, let it ferment with the S-04, and hope for the best.

God, I hope my Cali V takes off eventually though. I think I would've pitched it at about 6pm last night, no discernible activity yet. I let it warm to room temp, and shook a few times, before pitching.

You are a madman...

I wanna party with you...

...I'll bring my own beer though...

****, that's funny, I was just thinking to myself how jealous of your basement brewroom I was, and how it'd be great to work on your system for a day. Well, except for the chainmail gloves.

I was really, truly going to go buy extract to bump the gravity. I mean it.

But then I thought to myself, "This is free beer. The only money it cost me was about 50 cents worth of propane, and $2 for the pack of yeast I just pitched. I can either triple my investment of $2.50 for some extract, or I can just wing it. After all, I still have my RIS. I'm not "in the hole" yet."

So I boiled up some sugars. This belongs on the Midnight Confessions thread I think.

(And before you go through all the work of hauling Cornies with you, my Dryhop Honey Wheat is actually mellowing nicely. I just racked it to the keg, and I think it's gonna be a tasty beer in 6 weeks or so. Then again, I'm always down for drinking others' beer, especially yours!)

But hey, if you stop by, .... can you help me fix my stirplate?

I don't think I would sweat, just relax, don't worry. Get some commercial stouts and some Champagne for the weekend, think about apfelwine in a new way.

For the RIS, it sure kicked my butt. I still think pitching a small starter is going to help you by keeping your ferment temp low. Mine went three weeks in primary, has been in secondary for I dunno, maybe I'll check a gravity this weekend.

The extra sugars in the 1.020 is gonna be interesting. Can you get a dark colored light tasting summertime brew out of it? How was the flavor before you pitched it? Not too tannic probably...

I put in 1.5 oz Goldings at 10 minutes till flameout, so it tastes awfully hoppy. Other than that, it is reasonable. I don't pick up on any tannic or astringent tastes, just roasty, dark tastes.

FWIW, my from-the-hot-tap "sparge" water for rounds 2 and 3 wasn't over 160F, so I shouldn't have come close to danger territory.

chriso said:

I put in 1.5 oz Goldings at 10 minutes till flameout, so it tastes awfully hoppy. Other than that, it is reasonable. I don't pick up on any tannic or astringent tastes, just roasty, dark tastes.

FWIW, my from-the-hot-tap "sparge" water for rounds 2 and 3 wasn't over 160F, so I shouldn't have come close to danger territory.

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Well I would like to try it if you draw my name in a swap someday and there is any left in your garage. It is going to be beer and it is going to be different.

Just an update, I dumped this mamma jamma.

Didn't taste too good at all, very thin. Makes sense, since sugar ferments dryly. Thought about bumping it with a bunch of malto, then kegging for 4 months to let it age, but I wanted to KISS.

Total loss: $2 for S-04 yeast, $1.50 for some U.S. Goldings from my stash, and $1 for a new bag of brown sugar to replace the one I used.

Lessons learned: Lots. Have crushed grain or extract available if I'm THAT committed to using up my 2nd runnings. Don't boost a 1.020 with a pound of brown sugar. Don't be stingy. Have fun.

Hey, on the bright side, that fermenter's open now! Guess I should fill it with more beer, eh?

chriso said:

FWIW, my from-the-hot-tap "sparge" water for rounds 2 and 3 wasn't over 160F, so I shouldn't have come close to danger territory.

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Danger territory? I sparge at 185!

PseudoChef said:

Danger territory? I sparge at 185!

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Getting your grain bed over 170F can extract excessive tannins from the grains and case astringency in the beer.
Craig

CBBaron said:

Getting your grain bed over 170F can extract excessive tannins from the grains and case astringency in the beer.
Craig

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My grain bed doesn't get over 170. I said I sparge with it, not that it's the temp of the grain. Regardless, I believe it's another one of those myths just like HSA and DMS boil-off. Brewers are too anal sometimes.

PseudoChef said:

My grain bed doesn't get over 170. I said I sparge with it, not that it's the temp of the grain. Regardless, I believe it's another one of those myths just like HSA and DMS boil-off. Brewers are too anal sometimes.

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And beer gnomes? I try to get my sparge water up to 180 also, but the grain bed doesn't usually reach 170. I think you're more likely to get astringency if you sparge with too much volume instead of too hot.

From what I have read and experienced, pH is much more important than temperature or volume when it comes to tannin extraction. If you keep your sparge water acidic enough (i.e., around 5.2), you can just about sparge all day with boiling water and be in good shape.


TL

TexLaw said:

From what I have read and experienced, pH is much more important than temperature or volume when it comes to tannin extraction. If you keep your sparge water acidic enough (i.e., around 5.2), you can just about sparge all day with boiling water and be in good shape.


TL

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I think that the pH sometimes can go up if you sparge with too much water, but I treat my sparge water with 5.2 buffer, so it's not a problem.