New brewers.Stop trying to doctor your beer !

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BronxBrew

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Adding fruit, racking to a secondary or anything outside of what the recipe calls for is not needed. it will lead to heartache . i can understand someone wanting to doctor up a pre hopped can of extract. but for sakes why try to make a recipe your own by adding a ton of fruit etc to it. <~~~~ wine making forum is that way.
Yes ill have some cheese with my whine !
 
Why not experiment? I have deviated from several recipes in the two years I've been brewing. I have also made several great beers by doing so. Where's the harm and why wouldn't this help new brewers learn?
 
BronxBrew said:
Adding fruit, racking to a secondary or anything outside of what the recipe calls for is not needed. it will lead to heartache . i can understand someone wanting to doctor up a pre hopped can of extract. but for sakes why try to make a recipe your own by adding a ton of fruit etc to it. <~~~~ wine making forum is that way.
Yes ill have some cheese with my whine !

I agree! But, with a but......
If one does decide to move forward and experiment it is in their best interest, as well as those that field the never enduring questions, do your homework AHEAD of time!

Post your recipe, process, fermentation abilities, etc and ask for assistance in what you want to do so you avoid the inevitable issues that arise by jumping in feet first, you and your final product will be better for it:)
 
Adding fruit, racking to a secondary or anything outside of what the recipe calls for is not needed. it will lead to heartache . i can understand someone wanting to doctor up a pre hopped can of extract. but for sakes why try to make a recipe your own by adding a ton of fruit etc to it. <~~~~ wine making forum is that way.
Yes ill have some cheese with my whine !

I agree! In fact, I've found an even more surefire solution. Believe it or not, there are actually stores that will sell you beer already made. I've been buying this "pre-made beer" for about six months now, and I haven't had a bad batch yet. It's incredible. This is much, much easier than any of the other methods I've seen, so I'm surprised that nobody around here has ever heard of it!
 
I've been AG brewing for about a year and a half (never tried extract). My approach is to brew a recipe by the book the first time and then try variations on subsequent brews. I want to know what the original tastes like before I monkey with the recipe, otherwise I will never know the cause and effect of what I've done.
 
I agree! In fact, I've found an even more surefire solution. Believe it or not, there are actually stores that will sell you beer already made. I've been buying this "pre-made beer" for about six months now, and I haven't had a bad batch yet. It's incredible. This is much, much easier than any of the other methods I've seen, so I'm surprised that nobody around here has ever heard of it!

:D Awesome.
 
Well, typically I agree with this approach of leaving it alone until you know what you are doing but whatever his name is from Dogfish Head added some fruit to spice up his first ever homebrew kit. Just saying. He had no idea what he was doing at the time either and now he runs a successful brewery based on innovation. You never know until you try, still though, I think you should wait as well to play around.

(This story is in the Dogfish Head Brewing TV episode FYI)
 
I've been AG brewing for about a year and a half (never tried extract). My approach is to brew a recipe by the book the first time and then try variations on subsequent brews. I want to know what the original tastes like before I monkey with the recipe, otherwise I will never know the cause and effect of what I've done.

That's the way to go. First timers always want to jump into experimentation before they get the basics down. It's better to start at the beginning and develop your skills first.
 
Nah, the whole reason I got into brewing was to make wacky stuff that I'd like to try. Very first batch was by the book, and started tweaking stuff immediately thereafter. Batch #5 was a dumper, and a bit of a lesson. Too much Demerara sugar, fermented too warm... Bleah. It was drinkable, but why bother? Make more! Since then I've come up with a few recipes I really like, but even those I do a little different every time. I just like to experiment. Still make plenty of very tasty beer!
 
Whats the point in brewing if you can't add what you want to the beer? I mean, ya, if a new brewer posts about how awe full his beer turned out because of something crazy he did, well then you can tell him "I told ya so". I consider myself an experienced brewer and still add stuff that I probably shouldn't and regret it when I taste it, but that will never stop me from trying something stupid at a later time. I just make sure I have enough "normal" recipe beers lying around to make up for them!
 
Wow the OP has spent 3 months and 150 posts to make him/herself look legit on the forum only to troll. Good work my friend...good work.
 
I disagree. My first beer was an all grain blonde ale. I didn't just dive in. I read and read and read and made sure I understood the theory of what I was doing. I bought some brewing software and formulated my own version based on similar recipes. But I didn't copy anyone's exactly. I made it my own. It came out great.

Experimenting early can lead to failure.... OR.... it can lead to success and build confidence... OR... the journey of even thinking about experimenting can take you down a different path and lead you to try something totally different.

Experiment away my friends. What do you have to lose? You'll only gain from the experience.
 
Nothing wrong with experimenting in my book. It's a side affect of the affliction and a learning path too. Just dont get discouraged if things dont turn out right. Take it in, dial it in, RDWHAHB....!
 
New brewer adding pipe tobacco or beef jerky to there secondary. Not to mention fruit flys and infection. Wonder why there beer didn't turn out. It's easy for us who have made great first brews. We stuck to what the style called for. Why not try to get the beer right first then tweak it is what I'm saying. Adding 10 pounds of god knows what on your first batch to then come on here to ask what happened ? I see great people "mods included" who go out of there way to help.
 
I am against complaining when I screw up and begging for answers when I deviate from tried and true methods......BUT..... I say if you know the risk and you do your homework, then this is no different then cooking. Try new things and keep good notes. I can go buy a XXX style beer from any store at any time. Why do I need to make it at home? If you are worried about cost and loss, it seems like this was the wrong hobby choice. Personally I like reading about trial and error as well as success. Anybody else read the Mt. Dew thread lately? I joined this forum to learn and hopefully add to others knowledge some day. I don't think we should be telling people what they should and should not do as that sets a tone I rather not be a part of. Just my two cents as the new guy.:tank:
 
My first batch was a cream ale. I bottled half by recipe (mostly) and added bourbon vanilla extract to the other half. Most people liked the regular best but the vanilla version wasn't awful.

Second batch was an American Wheat. Bottled half and racked the other half on 3 pounds of blueberries. Most people preferred the original, but there were quite a few chicks who still ask me when I am making the blueberry again.

Lately, my changes have been a little more subtle. Sometimes I'll add some Honey Malt. I nearly always mess with the hop schedule. I think we learn more from our failures than we learn from our successes.
 
I can buy regular beer...

I try to do 2 beers that I tinker with and 1 normal in rotation. The normal is really just so I can spread the hobby to people!
 
I agree! In fact, I've found an even more surefire solution. Believe it or not, there are actually stores that will sell you beer already made. I've been buying this "pre-made beer" for about six months now, and I haven't had a bad batch yet. It's incredible. This is much, much easier than any of the other methods I've seen, so I'm surprised that nobody around here has ever heard of it!

Yeah but man, take that pre-made crap and rack in on to a can of Lychee fruits and see what happens.
 
My second beer was a blonde ale that I want to experiment with. I added blueberries to half at bottling. People loved it.

Experimenting is half the fun if home brewing. If no one experimented when brewing we still might only have a pale ale style
 
My first batch was a cream ale. I bottled half by recipe (mostly) and added bourbon vanilla extract to the other half. Most people liked the regular best but the vanilla version wasn't awful.

Second batch was an American Wheat. Bottled half and racked the other half on 3 pounds of blueberries. Most people preferred the original, but there were quite a few chicks who still ask me when I am making the blueberry again.

Lately, my changes have been a little more subtle. Sometimes I'll add some Honey Malt. I nearly always mess with the hop schedule. I think we learn more from our failures than we learn from our successes.

These are the kinds of experiments that improve your beers. For one, you're cutting the impact of having a beer turn out poorly by reducing the amount of modified beer. Second, you're using a control.

I brewed an amber that I wanted to experiment with dry hopping, so I split the beer in two. The result was one good beer and one excellent beer. The excellent beer gave me the inspiration for an Imperial Red Ale. Meanwhile, I'm planning on taking the first recipe and trying to make it into a sessionable beer.

After I get better temperature control, I plan on brewing a lot of 1-2.5 gallon batches and really tuning a few of my recipes. This will involve brewing a lot of base malt plus single specialty grain brews and tasting them.

One of the things I might do is brew the current iteration recipe in a full batch and blending it with the experimental batch at the glass in varying proportions, then selecting one or two blends that work. Then, I'll brew them and taste them.
 
Why not experiment?

Because it's not "experimentation" if you don't understand, or have experience with the BASICS first.

My take on this is that there is a difference between true experimentation and throwing things together "willy nilly." I have noticed on here is that a lot of noobs think what they are doing is experimentation, when in reality they are just throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Working on your process is good way of doing this, as is reading.

Throwing a bunch of stuff in your fermenter and seeing what you get at the end, and ending up making an "is my beer ruined" thread is not the same thing as experimenting.

To me, in order to experiment truly, you have to have an understanding of the fundamentals. You have to know how the process works somewhat. You have to have an understanding of how different ingredients or processes affect the final product. You may even need to know, or at least understand something about beer styles, and what goes into making one beer a Porter and another a pale ale. And where your concoction will fall on the continuoum.

To me it's like cooking or even Jazz. But going back to the cooking analogy. Coming up with a balanced and tasty recipe takes some understanding of things...just like cooking...dumping a cup of salt will more than likely ruin a recipe...so if you cook, you KNOW not to do that...it's the same with brewing...you get an idea with experience and looking at recipes, brewing and playing with software how things work..what flavors work with each other, etc...

That to me is the essence of creating...I have gotten to a point where I understand what I am doing, I get how ingredients work or don't work with each other, so I am not just throwing a bunch of stuff together to see what I get.

I have an idea of what I want it to taste like, and my challenge then is to get the right combination of ingredients to match what is in my head. That's also pretty much how I come up with new food recipes as well.

You'll get there....a LOT sooner, if you focus on the fundamentals, and get your processes in order...rather than just playing around.

If you're brewing with kits, and want a stronger beer, then brew higher gravity kits.

If you want a strong beer, don't choose a normal gravity beer and decide that since you read about boosting gravity by adding more sugars to just add more sugar, choose a beet of the grav you want, just like if you wand a peach beer, don't choose a non fruit beer recipe and try to "figure out" how to add the fruit...get a kit or recipe that has everything you need in the right quantities you need. Recipes are about a BALANCE between flavors, bitterness, aromas, what have you, and until you get a few batches under your belt, and learn the fundamentals, stick with the already proven and balanced recipes. That way you don't have the extra step of trying to figure out what went wrong if the beer doesn't taste good.....if the recipe or kit already tastes good (and they would have gone through tastes tests and ALREADY before you got to them- you know they are already good, if not award winning beers, if you went with a kit or book recipe, they have been vetted) if there is something not right, you will have an easier time trying to figure out what went wrong in terms of your brewing PROCESS, not because you went off the ranch and on top of trying to actually learn to brew, you also through a bunch of crap into the equation.

If you want a fruit beer, buy a fruit beer kit....

Beer recipes are a balance...and if you add to one variable, that will affect other parts of it...For example if you decide to raise the gravity of a balanced beer...a beer where the hops balance out the sweetness...and you raise the maltniness of it without also balancing the hops, then your beer may end up being way too cloyingly sweet. Or if you just add sugar willy nilly it could become overly dry, or cidery.

At this stage most folks trying to do it don't know enough yet, and they won't learn just by jacking a recipe o your first time out of the box. Don't start altering recipes on your first batch, or else you're gonna be posting a thread titled, "Why does my beer taste like I licked Satan's Anus after he ate a dozen coneys?" And we're not going to be able to answer you, because you've screwed with the recipe as well as maybe made a few noob brewer mistakes that typically get made, and neither you, nor us, are going to be able to figure out what went wrong. Because there's too many variables.

Just brew a couple batches and learn from them, and read books about recipe creation before you start messing around. It's not about tossing stuff into a fermenter and seeing how it turns out.If you want to make strong beers, learn to make GOOD beers first.

Read and learn about creating great RECIPES, not just how to boost the alcohol content of a beer. Learn about the ingredients, how they affect each other, how they balance each other.


There's nothing WRONG with Cooper's kits, or any kits really, they don't need to be messed with by a bunch of new brewers who don't know anything yet.

They weren't made by amateurs for chrissake, recipe kits be it kit and kilo or other kits are designed by folks with a LOT MORE EXPERIENCE then the person wanting to f with it....
 
I made the damn recipes I'm brewing. I'm sitting there with a notebook of paper and a calculator determining the mathematics of the brew. I'll doctor them up however I'd like.

That said, I don't do it without careful consideration of the flavors (that I perceive) to be involved. I always have a clear goal or objective for the beer when planning the recipe. I don't just add flavors or fruit to beer like, "Well let's just see what this crap does! WOOO"

After that I evaluate the recipe and try to come up with 2-3 things I can try differently next time if it didn't achieve my goal. Next time I brew the recipe, I change 1 thing to see how it changes the overall product. If it sucks (hasn't yet, we'll see about my mushroom beer)...well I tell myself not to be so creative with what could have probably been a good beer had I remained more conservative.
 
i've been modding my beer recipes ever since my first extract kit. with great success.. I added 3 gallons of apple juice to my Holiday Ale kit, and invented a friend and family favorite brew we lovingly refer to as the Slopiday Ale! (2 years running!!) I highly reccomend trying anything that keeps your interest in the hobby.

on the other hand, my buddy wanted to make a pumpkin beer for his first batch last year, added a can of pumpkin puree to his kit beer - and it soured. So, you just have to try your luck and dont be discouraged if you don't like the final product, try something new!

in retro spect we are pretty sure he got contamination from something other than the canned pumpkin puree because it was boiled.

at any rate i would like to disagree with the OP and state that if you have great fortitude and don't mind a setback - go head and experiment to see what you get!
 
I don't mind the experimentation with ingredients, even by noobs. In a somewhat controlled manner.

What I :rolleyes: at, is when someone asks "What happened to my beer? I wanted to increase the ABV so I added 5 pounds of table sugar."

Or, "What can I add to my Mr Beer Swill Ale kit to increase the ABV?"

My suggestion is always to brew the kit as is. If you want higher ABV find a kit/recipe that has a higher ABV.
 
I don't mind the experimentation with ingredients, even by noobs. In a somewhat controlled manner..


THIS.

But the thing is a lot of folks don't....

They change a bunch of variables at the same time, and they can't trouble shoot it later. Then they can't learn what they did wrong, because they can't figure out what they did wrong.
 
The problem is that not nearly enough of us feel the calling to tell teh noobs how it is. I've often felt that my life would far better if only there were more people on the Internet with the courage and the conviction to give me the unsolicited advice I so sorely need.
 
NOOBIE A takes a Cooper's Light Lager kit, adds 4lb of brown sugar and 1 lb of strawberries and expects to make a 12.0 ABV Pete's Wicked, only to end up with 5 gallons of watered down grain alcohol. NOOBIE B never brews again because he thinks it's just not his forte.

NOOBIE B reads Homebrewing for Dummies and How to Brew cover to cover, is active on a homebrew forum for 6 months before he ever brews, seeks out help buying his basic rig, seeks out help picking out his first recipe, asks a million questions before brewing, and brews a basic style kit to style, following every direction, that turns out great. NOOBIE B is addicted to homebrewing for life.

The "PROBLEM" the OP and others keep speaking of is not a problem at all. We need and want more respectful NOOBIE Bs in our homebrew community, and NO ONE likes or wants the know-it-all NOOBIE As. It's natural selection at work!

Now, I'm off to learn how to bake cookies. I'm thinking I'll start with a triple fudge Biscotti. My girlfriend is nagging that I should start with a pre-made pilsbury sugar cookie, but WTF does she know, she can only make chocolate chip. F that noizzzzze! :mug:
 
OK....lets slow the roll on this one. First of all, this is the beginners forum. If you've been brewing 2 years and doing all grain....you ain't no beginner. Post them in the advanced forum. If you just started brewing and try wild stuff...don't whine on here about why your cherry wheat brown sugar vanilla russian porter stout with a twist of lime smells like armpit and the airlock don't bubble. Get the basics of real beer down and the get to the experimentation stage. If you're doing a kit stick to it. If a tried recipe stick to that. When it comes out drinkable....then tweak the next batch till it's ears fall off! My 2 cents...back to your regular programming.
 
Because it's not "experimentation" if you don't understand, or have experience with the BASICS first.

My take on this is that there is a difference between true experimentation and throwing things together "willy nilly." I have noticed on here is that a lot of noobs think what they are doing is experimentation, when in reality they are just throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Working on your process is good way of doing this, as is reading.

Throwing a bunch of stuff in your fermenter and seeing what you get at the end, and ending up making an "is my beer ruined" thread is not the same thing as experimenting.

To me, in order to experiment truly, you have to have an understanding of the fundamentals. You have to know how the process works somewhat. You have to have an understanding of how different ingredients or processes affect the final product. You may even need to know, or at least understand something about beer styles, and what goes into making one beer a Porter and another a pale ale. And where your concoction will fall on the continuoum.

To me it's like cooking or even Jazz. But going back to the cooking analogy. Coming up with a balanced and tasty recipe takes some understanding of things...just like cooking...dumping a cup of salt will more than likely ruin a recipe...so if you cook, you KNOW not to do that...it's the same with brewing...you get an idea with experience and looking at recipes, brewing and playing with software how things work..what flavors work with each other, etc...

That to me is the essence of creating...I have gotten to a point where I understand what I am doing, I get how ingredients work or don't work with each other, so I am not just throwing a bunch of stuff together to see what I get.

I have an idea of what I want it to taste like, and my challenge then is to get the right combination of ingredients to match what is in my head. That's also pretty much how I come up with new food recipes as well.

You'll get there....a LOT sooner, if you focus on the fundamentals, and get your processes in order...rather than just playing around.

If you're brewing with kits, and want a stronger beer, then brew higher gravity kits.

If you want a strong beer, don't choose a normal gravity beer and decide that since you read about boosting gravity by adding more sugars to just add more sugar, choose a beet of the grav you want, just like if you wand a peach beer, don't choose a non fruit beer recipe and try to "figure out" how to add the fruit...get a kit or recipe that has everything you need in the right quantities you need. Recipes are about a BALANCE between flavors, bitterness, aromas, what have you, and until you get a few batches under your belt, and learn the fundamentals, stick with the already proven and balanced recipes. That way you don't have the extra step of trying to figure out what went wrong if the beer doesn't taste good.....if the recipe or kit already tastes good (and they would have gone through tastes tests and ALREADY before you got to them- you know they are already good, if not award winning beers, if you went with a kit or book recipe, they have been vetted) if there is something not right, you will have an easier time trying to figure out what went wrong in terms of your brewing PROCESS, not because you went off the ranch and on top of trying to actually learn to brew, you also through a bunch of crap into the equation.

If you want a fruit beer, buy a fruit beer kit....

Beer recipes are a balance...and if you add to one variable, that will affect other parts of it...For example if you decide to raise the gravity of a balanced beer...a beer where the hops balance out the sweetness...and you raise the maltniness of it without also balancing the hops, then your beer may end up being way too cloyingly sweet. Or if you just add sugar willy nilly it could become overly dry, or cidery.

At this stage most folks trying to do it don't know enough yet, and they won't learn just by jacking a recipe o your first time out of the box. Don't start altering recipes on your first batch, or else you're gonna be posting a thread titled, "Why does my beer taste like I licked Satan's Anus after he ate a dozen coneys?" And we're not going to be able to answer you, because you've screwed with the recipe as well as maybe made a few noob brewer mistakes that typically get made, and neither you, nor us, are going to be able to figure out what went wrong. Because there's too many variables.

Just brew a couple batches and learn from them, and read books about recipe creation before you start messing around. It's not about tossing stuff into a fermenter and seeing how it turns out.If you want to make strong beers, learn to make GOOD beers first.

Read and learn about creating great RECIPES, not just how to boost the alcohol content of a beer. Learn about the ingredients, how they affect each other, how they balance each other.


There's nothing WRONG with Cooper's kits, or any kits really, they don't need to be messed with by a bunch of new brewers who don't know anything yet.

They weren't made by amateurs for chrissake, recipe kits be it kit and kilo or other kits are designed by folks with a LOT MORE EXPERIENCE then the person wanting to f with it....

+1. Very well said.
 
As a new brewer I agree with almost all that's been posted on here. I am also very grateful for all of the info I've gathered on here. That being said, I'm also amazingly shocked at the ignorance some people have in the process. I am not an expert, but daily I am left shaking my head and saying wtf is this person thinking. I think that ignorance is what makes the more experienced people frustrated and reluctant to help. This forum and my brother in law got me into this hobby. This forum, my brother in law and my lhbs is what keeps me in it. Not to mention the deliciousness that I keep producing. Just my opinion, thought I'd share.
 
Is it experimentation if I scour the internets for a dozen recipes of the same style, compare their similarities and their differences, determine which variables are tweaked for what effects, and then use one of those recipes as the basis for my own version?

Because I do that sometimes.
 
Also as a new brewer it is hard to resist the temptation to alter that first kit a little bit to make it your own.

My first brew is sitting in the primary now and it has been two weeks since brew day. Coopers lager with the pre-hopped LME and booster.
I told myself I would just do what the instructions (plus my research) said to do and i would have decent beer. But on brew day i couldnt resist the urge to add a # of DME to the mix, just to raise the OG a little and try to make it a little different from what comes in the kit. I didnt want to drink 6 gallons of boring plain lager/ale. (The can says it's a lager but the instructions and yeast dont follow lagering procedures.)
So after I reach my FG (1.005 from 1.040) it tastes fine, but is just a little sweet and i want a little bitterness to counteract it. So i make a hop tea with a quart of water and .5 oz of some high alpha acid hops boiling them for 15 minutes, add those to the primary and also add .75 oz of cascade as a dry hop to give it some nose.
Now a week later I am pretty happy with how it tastes, the little bit of sweetness has been replaced by a little bit of bitterness and will make it much more pleasant to consume (according to my taste buds). The little bit of extra water lowered by FG a little but I think the extra bitterness helped the beer overall. We will see how it tastes once carbonated in a few more weeks.

So I think most new brewers that have done any research know not to mess around with the kits, but the urge to do so is overwhelming.
My next kit is a bit more complex, with steeping grains and hop additions, so I think i will be able to resist the urge to do any tinkering.

Those pure extract kits are boring though and I think i did the right thing by playing around with it a little.
 
:D

i couldnt resist the urge to add a # of DME to the mix, just to raise the OG a little

Followed by

The little bit of extra water lowered FG a little

My true wisdom for the day: Just like everything in life, sometimes you just have to let people (kids, friends, significant others, brewing newbies, etc.) learn from their own experiences, instead of spending too much time and effort trying to keep them safe ;)
 
Adding fruit, racking to a secondary or anything outside of what the recipe calls for is not needed. it will lead to heartache . i can understand someone wanting to doctor up a pre hopped can of extract. but for sakes why try to make a recipe your own by adding a ton of fruit etc to it. <~~~~ wine making forum is that way.
Yes ill have some cheese with my whine !

That's some really good advice for...... I'm not sure, NOBODY!
 
Is it experimentation if I scour the internets for a dozen recipes of the same style, compare their similarities and their differences, determine which variables are tweaked for what effects, and then use one of those recipes as the basis for my own version?

Because I do that sometimes.

That's exactly how I create recipes.
 
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