Yeast experts need some opinions. Belgian Yeast.

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Ryanh1801

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I have been messing around with my version of a Belgian IPA. Trying to get a good balance of hops and yeast character. My first attempt was a lower gravity IPA attempt. I used a 1 quart starter and fermented around 75 (trying to bring out the yeast flavor) The beer ended up with just a slight yeast character, but not much a lot of it was covered up by the hops, which I knew might be a problem..

Well here is where im confused. I just transfered my IIPA attempt tonight. This was one that I pretty much just doubled everything in the above beer, and put it on the first IPA's yeast cake. Everything stayed the same, same temp, same amount of time in fermenter. Well sampled this one, and it has a much better yeast character coming out. It was a lot better balanced.

Where im lost at is. I thought lower yeast count would stress the yeast more resulting in a more spices from the belgian yeast. My results where the complete opposite. Only thing I can see is maybe the second generation yeast caused this beer to have more flavor contributed from the yeast. Or maybe the higher OG caused the yeast to stress more.

What are your thoughts. Hope this made sense.

BTW the IIPA Belgian is freaking amazing, I almost had a hard time throwing the brett into it, hopefully this will make it even better.
 
I'm definitely interested in hearing how your experiment is turning out. I read about the belgian-american IPA in Radical Brewing and it seemed very interesting, but I'm not ballsy enough to try it yet.

Anyway, back on topic, I too am surprised by your result. From what I've read, stressing your yeast (under pitching, sub-optimal temperatures, etc.) will create more yeast character in your final beer.

I'm also surprised that you left both your original and IIPA batches in the fermenter for equal lengths of time. I would have thought that a IIPA, due to its higher gravity, would have taken longer to ferment and condition.
 
Randy Mosher writes very positively about Belgian IPAs. It's obviously not one for the traditional beer stylist, but if we're honest, neither were American IPAs - they're just crazy-ass American corruptions of an almost-extinct British style, and I'd be amazed if any American IPA ever made it to India. That said, it's also my favorite style of beer. Beer experimentation rules!
 
I was just thinking along the same lines! It's funny you posted this, because last night I was sniffing my airlock with the Belgian (it's a low gravity session beer) and wondering how it would be with more hops, specifically an IPA. I'm using WLP530, though, and my house is cold and I can't get it above about 64-65 degrees.

What yeast are you using?

Ok, you've convinced me on a Belgian IPA. But no way I'm going to be getting into sour beers now! :D

I have NO idea why you'd get more yeasty goodness with the second batch, unless just more yeast and more fermentables caused the yeast to be more dominant.
 
I also read on the style, and I don't see how you could get what makes Belgians great to come through all those hops. I'd love to try one though!
Also, get that 530 higher than 75! Go for more in the 80 range.
 
instereo13 said:
fruity yeast (pear, apples) plus citrus hops(grapefruit, pineapple) equals drool

I was thinking the same thing, something like a typical lighter color belgian grain/sugar profile but then go with either a C hop or amarillo and dryhop simcoe with wlp570.

Might have to formulate my own little recipe that I may or may not ever make.
 
My thoughts...

I have heard people say that low pitching rates stress yeast and force them to give off more esters, but then I have heard people say that is not all that true and that higher pitch rates will result in the proper ester production. Maybe that is what is happening here?

Interesting though, hope the IIPA come out well. I am probably going to start a string of Belgian beer and if I can get the hops I would really like to do a hoppy Belgian beer with mostly American hops. I think we will see this style of beer become more popular as the Belgian breweries are being introduced (forced to use?) more American hops. I believe the brewers from De Struise touched on this in their interview on THe Brewing Network. He was saying how some guys from America brought over a bunch of hoppy IPAs and they really fell in love with the hops.

Oh, by the way, what kind of yeast did you use? And what kind of hops did you use?
 
On the other hand, I can see this making perfect sense now. Coriander flavors are a product of fermentation. For your first batch, there were fewer fementables and hence less fermentation by-products. Your second batch had a lot more fermentables, and would reasonably be expected to produce a lot more fermentation by-products for the same unit of volume.
 
Ryanh1801 said:
I have been messing around with my version of a Belgian IPA. Trying to get a good balance of hops and yeast character. My first attempt was a lower gravity IPA attempt. I used a 1 quart starter and fermented around 75 (trying to bring out the yeast flavor) The beer ended up with just a slight yeast character, but not much a lot of it was covered up by the hops, which I knew might be a problem..

Well here is where im confused. I just transfered my IIPA attempt tonight. This was one that I pretty much just doubled everything in the above beer, and put it on the first IPA's yeast cake. Everything stayed the same, same temp, same amount of time in fermenter. Well sampled this one, and it has a much better yeast character coming out. It was a lot better balanced.

Where im lost at is. I thought lower yeast count would stress the yeast more resulting in a more spices from the belgian yeast. My results where the complete opposite. Only thing I can see is maybe the second generation yeast caused this beer to have more flavor contributed from the yeast. Or maybe the higher OG caused the yeast to stress more.

What are your thoughts. Hope this made sense.

BTW the IIPA Belgian is freaking amazing, I almost had a hard time throwing the brett into it, hopefully this will make it even better.

So to get back to your original contemplation. It is my opinion that a good proper yeast pitch will always result in better yeast character. I personally have tried the yeast stress thing and always got off flavors. I now pitch the recommended amount and then use good temperature control to change the yeasts flavor profile. I have had good luck with belgian yeasts at low temps, about 64 to 65F. This may sound low, but a guy in the local home brew club who is into all beers belgian, and has many awards to his name, suggested it to me awhile ago. It was good advice.
 
slinies, do what you like and what you feel makes good beer by all means, but it's highly recommended to use Belgian yeast at higher temperatures. Now on pitching rates and whether to start high and ferment high or start low and ramp up, well those I guess are up for debate.

I had the St Bernardus Abt 12 last night, omg what a great beer!!!!
 
Sorry for taking so long to respond I was out of town diving.. I used the WLP- 500, or chimay's strain..
 
Ryanh1801 said:
Sorry for taking so long to respond I was out of town diving.. I used the WLP- 500, or chimay's strain..


Can you post your recipe? I really like the idea of trying a Belgian IPA. Would the same basic idea work for any IPA recipe and Belgian yeast?
 
9/9 said:
Can you post your recipe? I really like the idea of trying a Belgian IPA. Would the same basic idea work for any IPA recipe and Belgian yeast?
8-8-08 Belgian IIPA.

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 46.1 %
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 46.1 %
2.20 oz Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (60 min)Hops 50.6 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (30 min) Hops 11.2 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (30 min)Hops 8.8 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (15 min) Hops 7.2 IBU
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50%] (30 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00%] (5 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (5 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
1.35 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 7.8 %
 
The Belgian IPA is a style and that is not up for debate here. If I truncated your comments it's because they were off topic or quoted off topic. If you feel your comment are germaine to the discussion, repost them.
 
I just recently found out about this style when I posted a recent topic called "Hoppy Belian" I have a belgian in secondary now and I'm toying around with the idea of dry hopping it. I'm not concerned with straying true to style too much since I'm brewing for myself and what I like. But it seems that Belgian IPA is actually a style on it's own now anyway.
 
olllllo said:
The Belgian IPA is a style and that is not up for debate here. If I truncated your comments it's because they were off topic or quoted off topic. If you feel your comment are germaine to the discussion, repost them.

Not to sound like im trying to do your job, but you left the comments that started all the BS, and have no point in the thread, or are wanted in this thread.

Will b said:
I just recently found out about this style when I posted a recent topic called "Hoppy Belian" I have a belgian in secondary now and I'm toying around with the idea of dry hopping it. I'm not concerned with straying true to style too much since I'm brewing for myself and what I like. But it seems that Belgian IPA is actually a style on it's own now anyway.

I did dry hop the first version, with Hallertau, and Golding. I think it worked out well. The second version though, im not going to dry hop, I think dry hoping it might take away from the Brett.
 
z987k said:
slinies, do what you like and what you feel makes good beer by all means, but it's highly recommended to use Belgian yeast at higher temperatures. Now on pitching rates and whether to start high and ferment high or start low and ramp up, well those I guess are up for debate.

I had the St Bernardus Abt 12 last night, omg what a great beer!!!!
I like your selection of beer, I'm also enjoying a few good brews, Rochefort #8, Westmalle triple, and a Benedictine Belgian abbey ale called Maredous. All are wonderful beer. I am gearing up to brew a few more Belgian style beers, and now that I have awesome temp control, I am going to do an experiment on three gallon batches of the same wort, The yeast will be propagated from the same vial of yeast, and the only difference will be fermentation temps. Hopefully next year at this time I might drink them. We will see. I want to do some experiments with wood cask aging as well, but one thing at a time.:tank:
 
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