give me the "yeast starter for dummies"

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twd000

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I am brewing my 3rd batch of extract this weekend - oatmeal stout partial mash kit. I have a 11.5g pack of Safale-04 dry yeast. On previous brews, I have just dumped the dry yeast right into the fermentor with success. I read that it is suggested to make a starter to somehow increase the vigor of fermentation? I have no qualms about inactive yeast, but I'm willing to try it if it will improve my beer even a little.

So how would I go about making a starter with this stuff? And how many days before brew day do I make it?
 
How 'bout this for an answer: no starters are needed for dry yeast!

In fact, it can (some say) be bad to make a starter with dry yeast. You see, the manufacturer as gone through the steps to make the yeast ready to go when they hit the wort - you've got nutrients and acceptable cell counts; no need for a starter with dry yeast!
 
I am brewing my 3rd batch of extract this weekend - oatmeal stout partial mash kit. I have a 11.5g pack of Safale-04 dry yeast. On previous brews, I have just dumped the dry yeast right into the fermentor with success. I read that it is suggested to make a starter to somehow increase the vigor of fermentation? I have no qualms about inactive yeast, but I'm willing to try it if it will improve my beer even a little.

So how would I go about making a starter with this stuff? And how many days before brew day do I make it?
A pack of safale should handle your brew (5gal?) just fine. No starter needed. Starters are used with liquid yeast packs, slants etc.

If you want to use liquid yeast, there is a nice instructable in the wiki....

You beat me AZ. You Dawg...... :)
 
OK, that makes life easier. So why do people pay more for liquid yeast - just seems like more work, right?
 
You beat me AZ. You Dawg...... :)

You're just old, so I type faster :D

OK, that makes life easier. So why do people pay more for liquid yeast - just seems like more work, right?

Well, that's a debate.

For certain strains, you can have the same results with dry v. liquid (think WLP001, Wyeast 1056 or the dry version US-05). For some beers, you should use liquid as there really isn't a dry counterpart (think Belgain style beers).
 
OK, that makes life easier. So why do people pay more for liquid yeast - just seems like more work, right?
Well, as it turns out, not all yeast strains take kindly to being flash frozen. Therefore, if you need a cetain strain of yeast for a particular style, it may only be obtainable in liquid form.

AZ: lol. You're right lad,but i try anyway. got to give me credit somewhere.
 
so for this kit my options were dry Safale for $3.50, liquid NeoBrittania for $6.25, or liquid London Ale for $6.25

so are those liquid strains unsuitable for flash freezing? are they more "Authentic" for the style? I feel like there must be some "duh" here....
 
Liquid offers more variety, but comes packaged in a way that requires you to let the yeast reproduce so there are more of them to "eat" the sugars. Dry yeast has a higher cell count, which means there is no need to grow the population. MrMalty has an awesome tool for figuring it all out. It is based on this:
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

and here is the calculator:
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
 
I noticed the variety of liquid yeasts available - the Northern Brewer catalog must have 200 strains. Is there a significant difference here? Can you taste a London Ale vs. a regular ale yeast? Those of you who keep/reuse yeast, how many strains do you keep on hand? Seems like it would get overwhelming unless ouyou brew the same recipe every batch
 
I noticed the variety of liquid yeasts available - the Northern Brewer catalog must have 200 strains. Is there a significant difference here? Can you taste a London Ale vs. a regular ale yeast? Those of you who keep/reuse yeast, how many strains do you keep on hand? Seems like it would get overwhelming unless ouyou brew the same recipe every batch

Each strain *is* slightly different - whether you can tell the difference or not depends on your palate and the recipe. Two yeasts that might be distinguishable in a bitter, for example, would be totally overwhelmed by all the other flavors in a barleywine. A big supplier like NB will carry multiple brands as well, so they might have the same strain from 2-3 different manufacturers.

I currently have nine liquid cultures in the fridge. Propagated and stored properly, they'll last for a year or more, so it's really just a question of how often you use that particular strain. For longer-term storage, freezing in glycerol at -80°C will keep a culture viable for decades.
 
Each strain *is* slightly different - whether you can tell the difference or not depends on your palate and the recipe. Two yeasts that might be distinguishable in a bitter, for example, would be totally overwhelmed by all the other flavors in a barleywine. A big supplier like NB will carry multiple brands as well, so they might have the same strain from 2-3 different manufacturers.

I currently have nine liquid cultures in the fridge. Propagated and stored properly, they'll last for a year or more, so it's really just a question of how often you use that particular strain. For longer-term storage, freezing in glycerol at -80°C will keep a culture viable for decades.

OK, I could envision keeping <10 strains alive in the fridge - that would cover a lot of recipes. As long as you use each strain at least 1X a year, you could keep them alive indefinitely.

Do you have a link on how to properly culture and store them? Is it just mixed in with wort like a starter?

On another note, who determines which strains are unique? Do they have something like a fingerprint that identifies them? Seems like it would be easy to get them mixed since they float around on the breeze all around the world.
 
Do you have a link on how to properly culture and store them? Is it just mixed in with wort like a starter?

Basically, yes. Here's my procedure: Yeast Ranching and You

There's also a sticky at the top of this subforum: Yeast Washing Illustrated

On another note, who determines which strains are unique? Do they have something like a fingerprint that identifies them? Seems like it would be easy to get them mixed since they float around on the breeze all around the world.

The origins of at least the most commons strains are pretty well documented. (http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm) In one way or another, they're all sourced from commercial breweries. They all started out as wild yeasts though, however long ago that may have been. Once they're "domesticated", it's just a question of keeping contaminating microorganisms to a minimum.

Nowadays, the big labs are equipped to do PCR (genetic fingerprinting) to ensure their strains stay pure. At home, the best you can do is maintain sanitary practices. At a minimum, thoroughly clean, rinse, and use a no-rinse sanitizer on everything that might touch the cultures. An autoclave or pressure cooker is better, and can actually do true sterilization protocols. There's no need to be paranoid, though. Even if a few wild yeast or bacteria get into your cultures, they're going to be outnumbered by a factor of millions - more likely billions.
 
Keep that S-4 in the mid-60s or lower unless you want a weird berry flavor. I realize that some esters may be called for in some styles, but this yeast, in my experience, picks up and drops off quickly, so have some sort of temp-control before high krausen if you're making a beer you don't want fruited.
 
Keep that S-4 in the mid-60s or lower unless you want a weird berry flavor. I realize that some esters may be called for in some styles, but this yeast, in my experience, picks up and drops off quickly, so have some sort of temp-control before high krausen if you're making a beer you don't want fruited.

I can keep it around 66-68 based on past experience, but I have not way to get it into the low 60's. Guess I'll have to take my chances.

If I order liquid yeast, how hot can it get in shipping without dying? The inside of my car can reach 140 here in Tucson, so I assume the back of a Fedex truck is similar.
 
so for this kit my options were dry Safale for $3.50, liquid NeoBrittania for $6.25, or liquid London Ale for $6.25

so are those liquid strains unsuitable for flash freezing? are they more "Authentic" for the style? I feel like there must be some "duh" here....

I say you should use the NeoBrittania and write a review to this forum. That will allow me to find somebody who has used it and get some "real life" feedback before I order the yeast on line and pay for shipping, cold packs, etc. :rockin:

Oh, and +1 to using the mrmalty calculator listed above. My attenuation and overall quality have improved since I started using that as a guide. I used it as a dry yeast guide for a Pliny the Elder clone that is currently dry hopping.
 
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