SìMàiYá Saison

Currently chilling a new saison recipe named "Four Malts" in Chinese due to the grain bill. I'm geeked. I'll share now, and update later once it progresses. Original plan was 6% each of malted wheat, rye, oats, and sugar. Actual quantities varied a little based on what was on hand.


Recipe: All-Grain Farmhouse Ale
Style: 16C-Belgian And French Ale-Saison

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 26.50 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.71 l (actual was 20.8, either due to more aggressive boil than normal, or my timer stuck and I went longer than expected... which is likely. Switched to digital timer at the 30 minute addition)
Volume Transferred: 20.82 l
Water Added: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.82 l
Final Batch Volume: 18.93 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 9.5 Plato
Expected OG: 12.3 Plato (actual was 12.2)
Expected FG: 1.7 Plato
Expected ABV: 5.7 %
Expected ABW: 4.5 %
Expected IBU (using Rager): 23.5
Expected Color: 4.2 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 85.9 %
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF

Fermentables
Pilsner Malt 8.70 lb (75.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Golden Naked Oats (Simpson's) 0.75 lb (6.5 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Rye Malt 0.72 lb (6.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
US White Wheat Malt 0.44 lb (3.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Dark Wheat Malt 0.25 lb (2.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 0.69 lb (6.0 %) Start Of Boil

Hops
Germam Hallertau (4.0 % alpha) 28 g Bagged Pellet Hops used First Wort Hopped
Czech Saaz (3.9 % alpha) 28 g Bagged Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End
Czech Saaz (3.0 % alpha) 28 g Bagged Pellet Hops used At turn off

Other Ingredients
Burton Water Salts 5 g used In Mash
Whirlfloc Tablet 1 used In Boil at 15 minutes

Yeast: White Labs WLP550-Belgian Ale (prepared a 2L starter on a stirplate for 36 hrs, then chilled and decanted.)

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (66C/151F) w/Mash Out
Step: Rest at 151 degF for 60 mins
Step: Raise to and Mash out at 171 degF for 10 mins

Recipe Notes
Actually changed things up at the moment of striking. I decided to do a protein rest. So I added in a protein rest for 18 minutes at 127F.

Wort is really smooth, clean and sweet tasting. I don't pick up any spiciness from the rye or "oaty" flavors. I think I'd like to use this grist bill again for a session pale ale, IPA or cream ale.

Update. Due to high tap water temps, I pitched in the mid 70s and it ramped up as high as 80. (since purchased an aquarium pump to allow me to finish chilling with ice water). I rushed this one into a keg as a secondary after only a week to free up my fermenter (which is my brew kettle). Kept it at room temp (70 ish) for another week, then chilled and carb'd. 1.005 FG.

Initially had some really fruity esters, but the yeast cleaned up after itself. No spiciness from the yeast or rye. For a dry beer, it does not feel watery or drying on the tongue. I'd credit the oats for that. It's smooth, but not with a silky, filmy quality which flaked oats can give a beer. Very refreshing, but quite plain. I expected something, good or bad from the Golden Naked Oats or rye, but nothing discernible in taste.

I will definitely rebrew this, but I'll increase the rye, oats, and wheat to perhaps 10% each in an effort to bring them forward more. Just for simplicity, I'd probably up the sugar to 10% as well., figuring the extra oats can counter any additional dryness. As it is now, it lets the yeast flavors be showcased. Similar to an NB Patersbier I brewed before.

Should have snapped it before drinking most of the glass, but here it is nonetheless.

I've been drinking this for almost 2 weeks now. Very true to the WLP550 yeast flavors which have continued to develop even though it's in the keg and chilled. Really loving it. I don't believe I'm tasting any discernible flavors from the rye or other grains. It's dry, but has a smooth and coating mouthfeel which I really like. I had a colleague bring me over 2 more pounds of Simpson's Golden Naked Oats. Once I get some rye locally, I will brew again. As said before, I'll up the oats, wheat, rye and sugar to 10%. I'd like to be able to pick up the rye and oats flavors along with the yeast. I don't think I'll get to the rebrew until July or later due to an Aussie vacation and some other brew plans in the meantime.

Sweet pic Quaker.
I am going to do a saiaon soon with Dupont dregs. It should turn out good, as the temperatures here in Thailand are 'saison' friendly.

Saison season is definitely hitting Shanghai as well. My tap water is upper 70s. I did buy an aquarium pump which I now use to recirculate ice water through my immersion chilller to get my pitching temperature down to the mid-60s where I want it. But I still let it ramp up on its own then. Sunday I brewed a batch to pitch with some Russian River bottle dregs which were built up in a starter. Pitching temp was 64F. 18 hours later it was 70F with no apparentl growth. 12 hours later it was mid 70s with full krausen. By this morning (about 40 hours) it was 80F and going crazy. As I came home tonight it appears the yeast has started to drop, but the temp is still 80. I'll be putting it to secondary shortly and trying to forget it for 6-12 months.

Wow,that's cool
Where the heck are you getting RR in China?
Any and all real beer I want I have to get friends and their friends and their family to bring over. That said,nobody from the UK has managet to bring over anything as col as RR! I am WAY jealous

It was a friend who's family brought it over. I didn't get any of it, but I was more than satisfied just getting the dregs.

I reckon that is the exact way I would feel. As happy as a pig in s*****.
I realy need to find some friends from the states!

I reckon that is the exact way I would feel. As happy as a pig in s*****.
I realy need to find some friends from the states!

Re-brewed this today with several adjustments to the recipe. I increased the adjuncts to 10% from 6. I changed yeasts from WLP550 to Wyeast 3711. I added a little bit of Cararye, more for a tinge more color than for much flavor. And I upped the hop bill, changing from Noble varieties to NZ.

Much higher efficiency than planned, so my estimated IBUs dropped due to higher gravity in the boil and the fact I intended 15 minutes additions which became 10 minutes. I was planning on 30 IBU in a more session level Saison.

Recipe: SìMàiYá 四麦芽 Saison
Style: 16C-Belgian And French Ale-Saison

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 28.50 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.5 l
Actual OG: 13.0 Plato
Expected FG: 2.0 Plato
Expected ABV: 5.9 %
Expected ABW: 4.7 %
Calculated IBU (using Tinseth): 24.4
Expected Color: 5.6 SRM
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF pitching, will rise uncontrolled

Fermentables
Chinese Pilsner Malt 6.00 lb (58.5 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Rye Malt 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Golden Naked Oats (Simpson's) 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Wheat Malt 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German CaraRye 0.25 lb (2.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 1.00 lb (9.8 %) 20 minutes remaining in Boil

Hops
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used First Wort Hopped
NZ Nelson Sauvin (10.9 % alpha) 15 g Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End
NZ Nelson Sauvin (10.9 % alpha) 15 g Bagged Pellet Hops used At turn off
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used At turn off

Other Ingredients
Burton Water Salts 15 g used in 30L of RO water for strike and sparge water
Whirlfloc Tablet 1 in Boil
Wyeast Beer Nutrient Blend 1/2 tsp in Boil

Yeast: Wyeast 3711-French Saison

Before the primary fermentation kicked up, I couldn't help myself and dumped the dregs from 3 bottles of DuPont Saison in it. By the next morning it had ramped up to 83 and hit a high of 93 on day 3 with SG of 1.5P. At the end of the week it was down to 0.6P (1.002) if I believe the refractometer conversions. (Go ahead and throw darts at my avoidance of hydrometers) I moved it to a keg with 15g of bagged Nelson Sauvin dry hops and the dregs of an Orval bottle. I doubt the Brett will do much at this point with the low gravity, but that's ok with me. I'm not really an Orval fan, but thought a little funk wouldn't hurt anything. The taste reminds me of my memory of a Muscat wine. It's the color of clover honey, but at only a week into fermentation it's still opaque (can't see my finger through the glass). The silky mouthfeel which was present in the wort has turned to an oddly heavy mouthfeel, yet very dry finish. It was similar in the first batch. It's the oats and the low gravity countering each other. There is a lingering, mild bitterness. Considering my pipeline of full kegs, it'll probably be September before I tap it.

Dipped a juice glass into the room temp keg this morning for a sample. If refractometers and conversions can be trusted (no need to tell me otherwise), it's at 0P (maybe believable with the Orval dregs). As noted before, the color is similar to clover honey. The aroma is distinctly white wine-like with a bit of fruit and honey character. Hard to place the fruit, maybe a little lemony. The taste again carries through with white wine flavors, maybe a bit like a Chenin Blanc. At first I think it was over carb'd so there was a tingling acidity, but as the sample sat longer, that disappeared completely. Dry, but it still has a smooth, lightly coating mouthfeel. The Orval funk comes as an aftertaste on the sides of the tongue, along with a bit of harsh bitterness. I think this is the second time I've used Pacific Jade in a blend of late hops, and that might be where it comes from. I put the keg to the fridge, to start serving. I do fear chilling it will cause the harsh bitterness to be more noticeable. This recipe was 29 IBU (Tinseth) or .54 BU/GU. I think I'd drop the bitterness next time, probably eliminating the Pacific Jade from of the 10 minute addition and leaving the rest the same. I won't re-brew again this year. Time to get some autumn/winter beers into the pipeline. But I'll probably pick it up again next year, possibly adding some black pepper and/or coriander to a batch to pep it up. I might play with making a little tea and blend in a glass of this batch to give me an impression of that.

After a few hours of chilling, poured another sample. Reminds me more of kumquat juice than white wine now, coating mouthfeel, lingering bitterness, and a touch of funk. The Brett seems a little more noticeable with the chilling. The book is closing on this one for the season.

Brewed up another batch of this today. I loved the last one, but wanted to keep pushing the limits on my grain bill to find the boundary. I increased the adjunct grains further. This batch has 4 lbs pils base with 2 lbs each of the rye, wheat, and Simpson's Golden Naked Oats. I'll use honey in place of sugar since I have a bunch leftover from my 2010 harvest which crystallized.

My gear hasn't shipped back with my household stuff from my house in China yet. So I used the LHBS mill. It's gap was considerably wider and a lot of the oats and rye weren't crushed. Efficiency was a horrid 60%. OG is 1.040 without the honey. I'll add 2 lbs after about 2 weeks (I'll be away on vacation or I'd add it a week in).

I kept the NZ hop schedule as before. I'll lightly dry hop as before with Nelson Sauvin when i add the honey. I pitched WLP 566 Saison II yeast. When it comes time to keg it, I'll either pitch some Orval dregs again or pick up a pure Brett strain.

Thought I'd post some updates. I ramped the temp up 2-3 degrees F a day until day 4 when i hit 78. On day 4 I also added 1.4 pounds of honey. Then i ran off to Thailand for a week. When i returned I removed the carboy hester.

4/13 I dry hopped with 15g Nelson Sauvin loose pellets in the carboy. SG was 1.009.

Hydro sample tasting notes. White wine aroma from carboy. Musty honey aroma from sample. Some astringency in the taste which overshadows all else. Still has body, but no slick mouthfeel like earlier batch. Sense the alcohol. Honey probably fermented too hot.

4/16 racked to a keg and pitched WLP644. I have used this Brett as a primary strain 3 times and loved it. This was my first time using it to finish a beer.

5/4 SG 1.007. Brett has done a little, but not much yet gravity wise.

Hydro sample tasting notes. Light musty aroma. White wine aroma gone. Oily/velvety body, but thin and dry finish. Light bitterness lingering. Warming alcohol. Hop flavors aren't identifiable. Definite menthol flavor/sensation - odd. Extremely clear - especially considering the adjunct % involved. No astringency. Seems like a little oak plus orange peel or coriander would round it more and of course carbonation.

About to kick this keg of the 3rd iteration. As before, about 6 weeks allows it to meld together. the high alcohol notes disappeared. I ended up hitting it with a half ounce of oak and bitter orange peel. Even after that it seemed to cry out for a fruit accent, I assume due to the Brett Trois as opposed to the more horsey Orval dregs of the prior batch. So I dry hopped it with 50g of Citra. Excellent. I do prefer the DuPont yeast over White Labs Daison II. I will re-brew again later this summer. I want to use their Saison III when it comes out based on OldSock/Mad Fermentationist and others' comments on it.

The increased adjunct percentages did add more earthiness to it. I think that is why the Citra was needed to step it up. I think my next batch will be 15% each. I'll stick with Brett Brux Trois as a finisher. The Citra may become a regular as well. I must credit Anchorage's Love Buzz for the idea.

Really enjoying dialing this in. It's the first time I've made even 3 iterations on a recipe, and I see me continuing to play - even though I would be happy with either of the last two on tap all the time.

Thanks for the updates. This sounds like a great beer I'm going to add it to my to-brew list.

Brewed a fourth version on Labor Day weekend and I'm proud to say this recipe is dialed to my tastes now. I'm using the mobile app while away from home for a bit, but eventually I'll post this one in the database.

Final iteration is 10% each of the adjuncts: Simpson's Golden Naked Oats, Weyermann Dark Munich, Weyermann Rye malt, home harvested wildflower honey.

Step mash 135-145-165. 15 minutes each on the first two then 30 on the last step. My system is an electric HERMS.

Hops and yeast were the tweaks that nailed it for me. Amounts below we're for a 10 gallon batch which ended up being 11. I had been getting poor efficiency on the new system after returning home from China, so I upped my recipe calcs and ended up with more wort than planned - such a pity. I suspect my efficiency issue is my hard, iron rich well water. Water sample has been submitted to Ward's and I'm on chapter 4 of the Water book. My IBU calcs also assume a 10 minute hot whirlpool with extraction.

OG 1.053

FWH 16 IBU Pacific Jade 13.1% x 20g
15 min 5.6 IBU Pacifica 5.4% x 30g
15 min 13.6 IBU Pacific Jade 13.1% x 30g
Whirlpool 1.9 IBU Pacifica 5.4% x 30g

Chilled to 63F and allowed to free rise in 68-70 degree basement. On day 2 all but the Brett were mid 70s.

I fermented 5 gallons with WLP585 Saison III (1.011 FG), 2.5 gallons with a Wyeast 3711 yeast cake from my neighbor (1.008 FG), 2.5 gallons with WLP566 Saison II starter harvested from prior batch (1.011 FG), and a gallon was pitched with Wyeast 3112 Brett Brux (1.018 FG) as a starter to distribute in the others at kegging.

I tasted then after 2 weeks in primary at kegging time, and bottled 2 bombers or 750ml of each of the sacch. strains. I legged the Saison III with about a quart of the Brett starter. I blended the 3711 and Saison II together also with a quart of the Brett.

Saison III is the yeast of choice. With it and the Pacifica, I get a definite orange marmalade aroma and flavor with a bit of spice which could be yeast, Pacific Jade and/or yeast derived. This was clean at packaging time. I tapped that keg after a month with Brett, and it dried out as expected with lust a touch of funk developing. More lemon is coming through together with the orange now.

Saison II has a mustiness which was consistent with the 3rd batch. It gives a rustic quality and blends into the Brett character. But needs something to punch it up. I ended up dry hopping the prior batch with Citra which worked great. I'm not a fan of this yeast and won't buy it again.

3711 was also a bit musty, but brought forward a peach character. Not bad, but a little one dimensional. I think the mustiness may be due to the oats and rye.

The Brett starter was lightly tangy and a bit of pineapple flavor.

I filled a couple bombers of the Saison III/Brett from the tap. Around Christmas I hope to do a side by side comparison again with the bottle conditioned samples. I'd like to repeat it in springtime when they have been in bottles for 6 months.

Around Thanksgiving when I'm back home I need to bottle some samples from the other keg (3711/Saisson II/Brett). It's not chilled or tapped. So it should be significantly funkier than what's on tap. But based on batch 2 (Orval dregs in keg) and this one, I think a month with Brett is ideal for my tastes.

I subsequently used all 4 yeast cakes for a 11 gallon split batch of a dark rye saison with 4 ounces of Mosaic hops spread between FWH, 15 min and Whirlpool. I repeated the same bottling and kegging scheme on that one too. I included some cara-rye in that one which I regret. The licorice or tobacco definitely hurts it. Hopefully that drops or melds with some time and Brett activity in the kegs. I doubt I'll work at adjusting that recipe though. I simply brewed it to take advantage of the yeast cakes on hand.