Mcmaster-Carr does not respect Canadians - don't waste your time

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Chugmaster

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For the other Canadians who also spent two hours searching the McMaster-Carr website for equipment and parts, placed an order and paid, please share with us how you felt after getting this email the next day:

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Due to the complexity of U.S. export regulations, McMaster-Carr accepts international orders only from our established customers. This decision also applies to orders shipping within the United States, because it is based on the final destination of the items. We cannot accept this order or future orders.



Your order has been cancelled.



Lauren

330-995-5983
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I wasn't even shipping the parts to Canada; I was shipping them to the US and was going to pick them up.

I phoned Mcmaster-Carr and they pretty much just repeated the same cryptic email over the phone. The woman was extremely rude. Her answer was that "this is just their policy." It says a lot about a company when the people working there don't even understand their own policies.

I asked her why they didn't put this on their website so that Canadians wouldn't waste their time. They obviously don't respect our time.

My advice to Canadians: You can find most brewing parts on Amazon.com at a better price than Mcmaster-Carr. DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THEM.
 
I don't see the problem- they don't want to deal internationally with new customers. That's up to them, I'd think.

I wouldn't expect a Canadian company to work with me either. Even with shipping to the same country, dealing with money exchange rates and stuff probably isn't worth it for them.

Next time, before spending time trying to order internationally, maybe send them a quick email or call them. That would save time and frustration.
 
I don't see the problem- they don't want to deal internationally with new customers. That's up to them, I'd think.

I wouldn't expect a Canadian company to work with me either. Even with shipping to the same country, dealing with money exchange rates and stuff probably isn't worth it for them.

Next time, before spending time trying to order internationally, maybe send them a quick email or call them. That would save time and frustration.

There's no money exchange issues when you're paying with a credit card.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I did phone them before I placed my order and the girl said that they do ship to Canada. She must be as confused as me.

There are a lot of stores in the US that won't ship to Canada -- I have no problem with that. This is why some Canadians cross the border to pick up items at a special receiver or UPS store. Mcmaster-Carr is the first store that I've ever seen that won't allow me to ship within the United States because I'm Canadian.
 
I wouldn't expect a Canadian company to work with me either. Even with shipping to the same country, dealing with money exchange rates and stuff probably isn't worth it for them.

What might that other "stuff" be? What other "stuff" is there, besides potentially the exchange rate? If you're paying by credit card, the bank takes care of the exchange conversion anyway. Beyond that, it's simply shipping to a US address. What's the problem? What other "stuff" could be complicating the process for them?

Next time, before spending time trying to order internationally, maybe send them a quick email or call them. That would save time and frustration.

Well that's just silly. We're going on a Caribbean cruise next week that departs from Fort Lauderdale and we're showing up 2 days early to see some sights in the city before the ship embarks. I needed to book connecting flights in the US, the cruise cabin itself, a hotel in Fort Lauderdale for a couple of days beforehand, and a rental car. Should I have called all of those people directly, just to make sure it was OK that I'm Canadian? What the heck is the point of the Internet then?

McMaster Carr - and any other business unable to handle the "complexities" of the new global economy - should get their act together.
 
They sell a huge variety of industrial equipment. Sure, for some o-rings and bolts, there's nothing much to worry about, but for some of the bigger equipment, the export and customs rules are complicated. That's not their fault, they have to comply, and it happens to be the case that they are responsible for not only things they ship to foreign destinations, but for things they know are intended to be exported after being sold.

It's a simple question: is it worth the cost of ensuring compliance (and covering the penalties for the inevitable errors they'll be dinged for) in order to get some business from across the border? Apparently not. Similarly, is it cost-effective to give every phone representative the detailed training to understand the nuances of the export laws? I doubt it.

If the rep was rude, that's a valid complaint, but hardly worth indicting an entire company over (and I have to say, based on your message here, I'm not convinced you were likely to have been entirely polite in the exchange). None of any of this has anything to do with respect for Canadians.

My experiences with McM-C have been exceptionally positive. For those who are in an area served by them, they're great. For those in Canada? Well, it's kind of a moot point since they won't ship to you anyway.
 
For those in Canada? Well, it's kind of a moot point since they won't ship to you anyway.

Please read the OP. Nobody was asking them to ship to Canada. The OP was trying to ship to a US address, but McMaster-Carr refused the order because the OP's IP address revealed he was using a computer in Canada.

That said, there are IP anonymizing services out there that can "spoof" an IP address to make it look like you're in the US (or wherever you want). In cases where a part is unavailable anywhere else, I would suggest the OP could employ one of those services to work around M-C's absurd policy.
 
Someone respected Canadians??
:)

I agree they can have whatever shipping policy try want but the site should have that posted. Besides, it seems every site I go to these days knows what country I'm in by my ip, you should have been told earlier.
 
Please read the OP. Nobody was asking them to ship to Canada.

Yes, I know that. That's why I said, "for those in Canada," not, "for those asking for products to be shipped to Canada."

The OP is displaying a very naive understanding of McMaster-Carr's business. As easy as the Internet makes it to place an order with a company in a foreign country, this doesn't guarantee that it's easy for that company to fulfill the order. There's more involved in selling to a foreign buyer than just running a credit card, loading up the box, and dropping it off at FedEx. For the types of equipment McM-C sells---industrial equipment, chemicals, handling supplies, etc, they have responsibilities for exporting* and record-keeping that they can't just ignore. Even though not every item is subject to this scrutiny, they have to have a procedure to determine that for every item.

Do you really think they're refusing business just to screw with a foreigner?


Edit:
* - Note that export rules can apply even for a domestic shipment if they know the end-recipient is foreign. Since they know that he's coming from a foreign IP, they have to follow those rules.
 
I remember a while back there was a similar rant by a US soldier stationed in Germany. He has a US address, and a US credit card, and he was having it sent to a family member in the US. McMaster-Carr would NOT take his order, even though it was destined to be sent to a family member and not him in Germany.

Their policies may be liked, but because industrial equipment has to meet certain requirements I can sort of understand. They do these things for previous/current customers from what I understand, but decline to take on new international clients.

I didn't say it was a "good" policy, but I think they have the right to set their own policies.
 
The OP is displaying a very naive understanding of McMaster-Carr's business. As easy as the Internet makes it to place an order with a company in a foreign country, this doesn't guarantee that it's easy for that company to fulfill the order. There's more involved in selling to a foreign buyer than just running a credit card, loading up the box, and dropping it off at FedEx. For the types of equipment McM-C sells---industrial equipment, chemicals, handling supplies, etc, they have responsibilities for exporting* and record-keeping that they can't just ignore. Even though not every item is subject to this scrutiny, they have to have a procedure to determine that for every item.

Do you really think they're refusing business just to screw with a foreigner?

The only people who are naive here are the Mcmaster-Carr reps. If they had of explained to me exactly what you just did, they would still have my respect.

I did not imply that they were prejudice because I'm Canadian, but rather that they were just brushing me off and not provided a reason.

As for spoofing my location, why would I try to get around the rules to give a company money if they don't appreciate my business?
 
Yes, I know that. That's why I said, "for those in Canada," not, "for those asking for products to be shipped to Canada."

The OP is displaying a very naive understanding of McMaster-Carr's business. As easy as the Internet makes it to place an order with a company in a foreign country, this doesn't guarantee that it's easy for that company to fulfill the order. There's more involved in selling to a foreign buyer than just running a credit card, loading up the box, and dropping it off at FedEx. For the types of equipment McM-C sells---industrial equipment, chemicals, handling supplies, etc, they have responsibilities for exporting* and record-keeping that they can't just ignore. Even though not every item is subject to this scrutiny, they have to have a procedure to determine that for every item.

Do you really think they're refusing business just to screw with a foreigner?


Edit:
* - Note that export rules can apply even for a domestic shipment if they know the end-recipient is foreign. Since they know that he's coming from a foreign IP, they have to follow those rules.

I dont think you understand the issue. He was shipping to a US address. From Mcmaster carr's perspective, they are shipping within the US. There is no other "complexities".

And btw, McMaster carr ships to Canada, just not to personal addresses. My company orders from them all the time.
 
With international proxies etc. it's naive for a company to determine someones location using IP addresses. I had a similar issue yesterday where a company rejected my transaction because they thought I was in France based on my IP address, which wasn't the case as I was in Virginia and logged onto my work VPN which accesses the internet via a gateway in Paris (the company I work for is owned by France Telecom).

In any case the retailer should make their international ordering policy crystal clear on their website so as to not have to deal with pissed off customers.
 
If you're paying by credit card, the bank takes care of the exchange conversion anyway.

They may handle it, but they charge a nice fee to go along with that service. That fee would not be worked into the price you paid unless there was a "Canadian upcharge."


Please read the OP. Nobody was asking them to ship to Canada. The OP was trying to ship to a US address, but McMaster-Carr refused the order because the OP's IP address revealed he was using a computer in Canada.

I read the OP and I see nowhere that it mentioned anything about IP addresses. Did they actually do that, or did he put
Billing Address: Canada
Shipping Address: US
 
From Mcmaster carr's perspective, they are shipping within the US. There is no other "complexities".

Sorry, it's not that simple. The seller can be held liable for "further export" that violates the law. Meaning that if I know you are going to send it to Canada and I sell it to you (in the US) anyway, I am still liable.
 
Sorry, it's not that simple. The seller can be held liable for "further export" that violates the law. Meaning that if I know you are going to send it to Canada and I sell it to you (in the US) anyway, I am still liable.

Right. That was the issue with the US Soldier in Germany. He was coming home, and wanted it for then but McMaster-Carr wouldn't let him buy it anyway.

If I buy a ton of industrial parts, and then move them to Nicaragua, McMaster-Carr can be held liable for the "further export" of those parts if they sold them to me with my Nicaragua billing address/email, even if I had them shipped to the US.

I'm certain that McMaster-Carr just doesn't want the headaches of dealing with international law for individuals. That's why they have their policy.

Luckily, they aren't the only company in the world so buyers do have other options.
 
^^^
Right, and a credit card order from outside the USA with a ship-to address in the USA is probably a red flag in the system for that very reason.
 
I read the OP and I see nowhere that it mentioned anything about IP addresses. Did they actually do that, or did he put
Billing Address: Canada
Shipping Address: US

Beat me to it. The reason stated in the OP was pretty clear

This decision also applies to orders shipping within the United States, because it is based on the final destination of the items.
 
They may handle it, but they charge a nice fee to go along with that service. That fee would not be worked into the price you paid unless there was a "Canadian upcharge."

Any time I buy anything in US funds with my Canadian Visa, the currency exchange fee is passed on to me (in the form of a considerably higher-than-market exchange rate). As I understand it, the merchant still pays their 2% (or whatever) merchant fee, and that doesn't change simply because the cardholder pays his bill with Canadian funds every month.
 
Chugmaster - I agree with you that their shipping policy should be more clear on their website.

Yooper (and a few others) nailed what probably happened.

Items were being purchased by somebody out of the US. Regardless of the items or where it was initially being shipped to, the vendor did not want to mess with the problems of knowing that it most likely was going to be exported to a different country.

Many of the items that McMaster-Carr sells may not be approved for export.

Could they just flag those items in their system? Probably, but instead they have decided to simply not ship to new customers outside the US. Especially one that is personal instead of corporate. I know that McMaster-Carr does ship to Canada, but as explained in their email, only to existing customers (that probably have the correct paperwork already on file to keep the US Government happy).

There are a couple of ways that McMaster-Carr could tell you lived outside of the US and had intentions of taking the package over the border.
1. Your credit card billing address.
2. The address of where the item as being shipped. Many "industrial" merchants flag the addresses of the "hold" points along the US/Canada and US/Mexico border in their system.

In this case, if #1 didn't immediately kick the order, 1+2 did.

Next time, if you really want the parts from McMaster-Carr, have somebody that lives in the US make the purchase, and have it shipped to the address that matches their billing address for the credit card (home address). Then drive down and get the package, or have them re-box it and ship it to you.

Here is what I really don't understand about this entire situation...

My advice to Canadians: You can find most brewing parts on Amazon.com at a better price than Mcmaster-Carr. DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THEM.

If you could find the parts for less money at Amazon as you indicated, why were you going through McMaster-Carr in the first place?
 
Any time I buy anything in US funds with my Canadian Visa, the currency exchange fee is passed on to me (in the form of a considerably higher-than-market exchange rate). As I understand it, the merchant still pays their 2% (or whatever) merchant fee, and that doesn't change simply because the cardholder pays his bill with Canadian funds every month.

I don't know about the big boys, but the few times I have used my tiny little merchant account to process a foreign card, they charged me the non-preferred rate, and an additional charge for "foreign transaction fee".
 
I haven't had any problems with them. I just have them ship to the Front Desk in Newport, VT, pop over and pick up the stuff and hope I get the customs guy that says "You aren't going to leave that in Canada, are you?" on the way back. I guess I should point out that I have been a US customer of theirs for years (half my brewery is put together with stuff from McMaster-Carr).
 
Sorry, it's not that simple. The seller can be held liable for "further export" that violates the law.

This is it in a nutshell. The US has certain import/export and trade restrictions with some countries (Cuba for example) that Canada doesn't. So they're covering their ass and their assets by choosing not to do business with Canada, and running the risk of their stuff going where our Government doesn't want it. Just because it may seem silly for the stuff you're ordering, they're an industrial supply company, not everything in their huge inventory can be considered so innocuous. Some of their stuff can help countries who we don't want them to, to achieve "Nuclear Independence."

So they're not going to do business with countries we have embargoes against, nor countries that don't have the same import/export policie.

There was something a couple years ago very similar. I can't remember which, but certain retailers (Maybe walmart, or maybe radio shack) was limiting multiple purchase sales of cheap trackfone type cellphones in cities with large Middle Eastern populations (such as Dearborn, Mi) because it turned out that some of those tracfones were ending up in Iraq wired into the i.e.d.s that were killing our troops.

There was a hullaboo when this happened, but the companies were in their rights, they didn't want to end up having their equipment used to kill Americans, nor did they want any families of wounded/killed GIs suing them.

Do you really think they hate Canucks? Are you that immature in your thinking? Don't you think they'd LOVE an entire country's worth of hard earned dollars to get? This is capitalism here, COMPANIES WANT YOUR MONEY. It's just not worth get into trouble with the US government over it....
 
Here is what I really don't understand about this entire situation...



If you could find the parts for less money at Amazon as you indicated, why were you going through McMaster-Carr in the first place?

Convenience. Searching for numerous parts takes time and the items need to come from multiple vendors. McMaster-Carr is a one-stop-shop.
 
I don't know about the big boys, but the few times I have used my tiny little merchant account to process a foreign card, they charged me the non-preferred rate, and an additional charge for "foreign transaction fee".

Yeah, CC companies take a little on the front end, a little on the back end, and pretty much anywhere in between that they can insert a processing fee.
 
Regarding foreign transaction fees for Canadians using credit cards to make purchases in US funds, I've found that using Paypal (when available) and its conversion rate is usually cheaper than making a purchase with a credit card alone.
 
Has anyone used the "How can we improve" link on top of the Master-Carr page?
If the 'Other' link on the USA|Other line went to a log in page rather than taking the foreign address details it would be a good clue things aren't going well. On first visit to a site I usually add an item to the basket and try processing it through to the end before getting too involved. It saves time and those damned looks straight out of Edvard Munch's The Scream when the tirade erupts.
 
I think these threads show up about every 6 months around here and the companies that have no-export policies are always accused of disrespecting military or hating on Canadians. I think the last one was something like XX company doesn't support the troops. While I usually ship anywhere in the World, I recently refused an order from someone with a billing address in France with a shipping address to the Dominican Republic. Does this mean I hate French people? No. It just means that given the current state of my business, there are too many red flags to make a few bucks on this order. Risk/reward. It has nothing to do with personal opinion of the people ordering or "care".

Given Mcmaster's high end prices and huge B2B contracts, do you think they give a darn that a few bucks are lost to avoid legal issues?
 
their excuse a crock, there is some kind of back door deal with Canadian based sellers, like fastenal (to name one of many) who buy alot of their stuff from the same manufacturers, and are selling the same products here for 2 to 4 times the price here as macky carr is, with the offer of overnight delivery to anywhere in north america they were taking away alot of gravy from the greedy CDN suppliers, so some kind of deal was made through pressure somewhere in that food chain,

tell me why a coolant pump that was made in Canada cost 4 times more to buy in Canada than in the US
 
If I have taken anything from this thread it is that McMaster Carr is doing due diligence to abide by the rules. Google trans shipping, IEEPA, OFAC, etc, etc. There are a ton of rules and regulations that companies have to go through when they export certain items from the US to foreign countries. http://www.state.gov/strategictrade/resources/c43182.htm As far as the comment about them having no problem doing business with larger companies like Fastenal, of course they will because Fastenal is a legitimate company with huge purchasing power. They make it worth it to MMC to jump through the hoops to sell to them. Filling out paperwork and obtaining export licenses is expensive and time consuming. I understand why they wouldn't want to do it for small orders the are billed to one country and shipped to another.
 
Mouser does not have any issues with shipping to Canada or Canadians. Sorry to necro such an old post but McMaster just fed me the same info after spending a ton of time lining up my order.
 
I dont think you understand the issue. He was shipping to a US address. From Mcmaster carr's perspective, they are shipping within the US. There is no other "complexities".

And btw, McMaster carr ships to Canada, just not to personal addresses. My company orders from them all the time.

You are just plain wrong! @zeg has a much better understanding of US export rules than you do. As @zeg explained, shipping to a foreign national at a US address is an export as far as the regulations are concerned.

The overhead involved with export regulations is enormous. While working in the supply chain organization of a large US based international corporation, I had to go thru at least annual training on export regulations. If you haven't been thru such training, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Brew on :mug:
 
You are just plain wrong! @zeg has a much better understanding of US export rules than you do. As @zeg explained, shipping to a foreign national at a US address is an export as far as the regulations are concerned.

The overhead involved with export regulations is enormous. While working in the supply chain organization of a large US based international corporation, I had to go thru at least annual training on export regulations. If you haven't been thru such training, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Brew on :mug:

Why are you arguing with something someone posted back in 2013? :mug:
 
Why are you arguing with something someone posted back in 2013? :mug:

Found the thread in the "New Posts" search ('cause someone revived a necro thread), and neglected to check the date on the post I replied to. I can't be the only one who's ever done that.

Brew on :mug:
 

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