Sigh...1.038 after 18 days of fermentation

So I read a couple of posts and I am not sure what I did wrong. It seems as the yeast flocculated. A fair amount of sediment in the secondary.

Here's what I am working with...

5.5 gallons
6 pounds of UME
1 pound DME
.5 pound specialty grain
2 ounces of hops

Fermented for 8 days. Vigorous fermentation. Blew the top. Settled down at 5 days. On the 8th racked off into the secondary. Fermintation started up for 2 days and died down by 3. Its been sitting in the secondary since 1/15. I figure this would be better to let it sit. I noticed that the beer is clearing to a beautiful copper brown color and no more bubbles are forming at the top. There is an inch of sediment on the bottom.

Using a refractometer I tested at 1.038 . I was quite shocked. I am not sure why it got stuck. My temps are very consistent. Its like the yeast just stopped doing their job. :L


What the beer tastes like:

Its drinkable. It tastes good, but not dry at all. Smooth on the tongue. Not harsh. Very clear in appearance. Little carbonation. Low in the IBU's, not bitter at all, which for me is not bad. Over all I am ok with it but wish it was drier.


Whats going on now:

Its still in the secondary. I am not sure what to do as of right now. I read up on putting enzymes into the beer to break down complex sugars but it seems really easy to mess up.



I dont have a clue.

Uh, two things:

1. What was your starting gravity?

2. This is a big one...did you correct your refractometer reading for the alcohol?

What was your yeast and what was your ferment temp?

Are you sure about the 1.038? I ask because if I tasted a 1.038 it would be a "freakin way too sweet for it to be done", not a "but not dry at all".

If it is accurate you may have racked too early.

I'm really thinking that, since this was a refractometer reading, that the OP didn't adjust the reading for the alcohol that is now in the beer. I could be wrong, but I've done the same thing several times myself and I've been using the refractometer for a while now...guess I'm a slow learner.

EDIT: Also, did you calibrate the refractometer with distilled water?

Shooter said:

Uh, two things:

1. What was your starting gravity?

2. This is a big one...did you correct your refractometer reading for the alcohol?

Click to expand...

1. I dont know. Didnt know I could test with a refractometer. I learn so many things from this first brew. Doing something is the best way to learn about it.

2. I had no idea that you would have to adjust for alcohol.

twohands said:

What was your yeast and what was your ferment temp?

Click to expand...

Safale US-05 @ 68-70F

PT Ray said:

Are you sure about the 1.038? I ask because if I tasted a 1.038 it would be a "freakin way too sweet for it to be done", not a "but not dry at all".

If it is accurate you may have racked too early.

Click to expand...

Yes. I did rack to early now that I found most of you let them set for greater than two weeks on trub without any worries. I read its was good to do that but i guess not. I should wait until the SG is where it needs to be.

Shooter said:

I'm really thinking that, since this was a refractometer reading, that the OP didn't adjust the reading for the alcohol that is now in the beer. I could be wrong, but I've done the same thing several times myself and I've been using the refractometer for a while now...guess I'm a slow learner.

EDIT: Also, did you calibrate the refractometer with distilled water?

Click to expand...

Yes I do calibrate off of RO/DI so its good.

You can safely leave your brew in primary for a month in most cases with zero worries. Assuming you check your equipment, re-measure, and it still comes out high, you have a few options. You can just let it continue to ferment, albeit at a slower rate than you'd like, or you can try adding another packet of yeast to help it out. Since you used a dry yeast it wouldn't be too expensive, and it won't hurt. I did that one time for a very high gravity beer than needed a little help in secondary to finish out. The hardest thing to learn is patience, but it gets easier once you have a stockpile of homebrew built up to keep you distracted from the latest batch.

Torchiest said:

You can safely leave your brew in primary for a month in most cases with zero worries. Assuming you check your equipment, re-measure, and it still comes out high, you have a few options. You can just let it continue to ferment, albeit at a slower rate than you'd like, or you can try adding another packet of yeast to help it out. Since you used a dry yeast it wouldn't be too expensive, and it won't hurt. I did that one time for a very high gravity beer than needed a little help in secondary to finish out. The hardest thing to learn is patience, but it gets easier once you have a stockpile of homebrew built up to keep you distracted from the latest batch.

Click to expand...

I did save some trub which is mostly flocculated yeast could I make a starter from it and pitch it in? I thought about pitching more yeast in, but I figured something as common sense as this would be too good to be true.

Okay, yes, you need to adjust for alcohol after fermentation has begun. You can take a starting gravity with a refractometer, but once fermentation kicks in the reading has to be adjusted for the alcohol. For example, my current beer had an SG of 1.040. I read the gravity last night with my refractometer and the reading was 1.022. I input the original SG and the new reading into Brew Alchemy and told it to adjust for alcohol. The corrected reading is 1.010. So, my beer appears to be fully attenuated and is sitting at 4% alcohol. I will still let it sit for a few weeks to clean up and will take another reading in a week or two to be sure it hasn't moved, but, in essence, it is done fermenting.

For your recipe Beer Alchemy predicts a SG of 1.048. So, your corrected gravity is more like 1.030 or 1.031. So, you are still high, but not as high as your initial reading.

I think the early racking off the yeast mass could have contributed to the issue. Maybe more experienced minds can jump in here, but it sounds like you took the beer off the yeast before it was done. Pitching more dry yeast might not hurt.

If you saved some of the trub, building it back up with a starter would probably work just fine. Personally, I'd be too lazy to do that if I were using dry yeast, since it's cheap and easy to add more from a new packet. Couldn't hurt either way though. Just be sure to keep everything sanitized, of course, to avoid infection.

Without knowing your original gravity its tough to know what % of alcohol is in there, but since you used the US-05 yeast (which does a great job) I think its safe to assume it was pretty high. This means you probably have a good amount of alcohol in there, and alcohol is toxic to yeast. For this reason I'd recommend the starter, and pitch it when its at high krausen actively fermenting. Pitching another packet of rehydrated dry yeast would probably work because of the ridiculous concentration of cells per packet, but its better to not stress the yeast by putting them directly in a toxic environment.

Also, some of the extracts are not as fermentable as others. There's really no way to no what the mash profile was like for these particular maltsters. The Alexander's and Munton's are supposed to be good ones.

Sedge said:

Without knowing your original gravity its tough to know what % of alcohol is in there, but since you used the US-05 yeast (which does a great job) I think its safe to assume it was pretty high.

Click to expand...

Well since it's an extract recipe the numbers from any brewing software should be pretty danged close. Like I said, he should be around 1.048 SG. So, right now he's only sitting at about 2.3% alcohol.

do you own a hydrometer? it might be a good idea to check your gravity with one of those just to have something to compare to.

android said:

do you own a hydrometer? it might be a good idea to check your gravity with one of those just to have something to compare to.

Click to expand...

This seems like a good practice. I occasionally cross check my calibrated refractometer against my hydrometer reading.

Wow guys thanks for the replies. Check out what I have to say below.

Shooter said:

Okay, yes, you need to adjust for alcohol after fermentation has begun. You can take a starting gravity with a refractometer, but once fermentation kicks in the reading has to be adjusted for the alcohol. For example, my current beer had an SG of 1.040. I read the gravity last night with my refractometer and the reading was 1.022. I input the original SG and the new reading into Brew Alchemy and told it to adjust for alcohol. The corrected reading is 1.010. So, my beer appears to be fully attenuated and is sitting at 4% alcohol. I will still let it sit for a few weeks to clean up and will take another reading in a week or two to be sure it hasn't moved, but, in essence, it is done fermenting.

For your recipe Beer Alchemy predicts a SG of 1.048. So, your corrected gravity is more like 1.030 or 1.031. So, you are still high, but not as high as your initial reading.

I think the early racking off the yeast mass could have contributed to the issue. Maybe more experienced minds can jump in here, but it sounds like you took the beer off the yeast before it was done. Pitching more dry yeast might not hurt.

Click to expand...

Yeah I get that now. I am hurting without all that extra yeast. Where did you get that software from? Sounds like that will be very useful even for a noobie like me.

Torchiest said:

If you saved some of the trub, building it back up with a starter would probably work just fine. Personally, I'd be too lazy to do that if I were using dry yeast, since it's cheap and easy to add more from a new packet. Couldn't hurt either way though. Just be sure to keep everything sanitized, of course, to avoid infection.

Click to expand...

Good. Thats what I will do. I will make a starter. I guess DME will work fine?

Sedge said:

Without knowing your original gravity its tough to know what % of alcohol is in there, but since you used the US-05 yeast (which does a great job) I think its safe to assume it was pretty high. This means you probably have a good amount of alcohol in there, and alcohol is toxic to yeast. For this reason I'd recommend the starter, and pitch it when its at high krausen actively fermenting. Pitching another packet of rehydrated dry yeast would probably work because of the ridiculous concentration of cells per packet, but its better to not stress the yeast by putting them directly in a toxic environment.

Also, some of the extracts are not as fermentable as others. There's really no way to no what the mash profile was like for these particular maltsters. The Alexander's and Munton's are supposed to be good ones.

Click to expand...

Next time for sure I will take an initial gravity. I hoped that it would be in the 1.055-65 range but I guess it wasnt according to that brew calculator. It seems that UME is good but you might as well go full grain if you got that equipment. I do have it all. I boil crawfish, crabs, and fry turkeys. I have multiple 10 gallon pots that I can easily mash and boil in.

android said:

do you own a hydrometer? it might be a good idea to check your gravity with one of those just to have something to compare to.

Click to expand...

I do, but I was getting weird results from it so I didnt use it. I need to test the hydrometer and the refractormeter out against each other to see where they both stand and test those against a known standard.




So are we all in for pitching a starter and pitching the starter into the wort?




thanks for the replies!

Beer Alchemy is a Mac only program that you can purchase via download. I also recommend BrewPal for the iPhone and iPod Touch for only 99 cents! There are several different similar programs out there. So, find one you like, they often have downloadable demos, and stick with it.

Normally I would swirl and raise the temperature, but, since you’ve racked away from a lot of the yeast it might be worth a try to make a starter. I think pitching at high krausen would also be advisable.

Shooter said:

Beer Alchemy is a Mac only program that you can purchase via download. I also recommend BrewPal for the iPhone and iPod Touch for only 99 cents! There are several different similar programs out there. So, find one you like, they often have downloadable demos, and stick with it.

Normally I would swirl and raise the temperature, but, since you’ve racked away from a lot of the yeast it might be worth a try to make a starter. I think pitching at high krausen would also be advisable.

Click to expand...

Ah well no Mac/apple products here. Try to find something different.


So wouldnt agitating the beer at this stage allow for oxidation and lead to off flavors? I am not too hip on the definitions. Is high krausen the first 36 hours where the yeast are highly active?

pjewell said:

Ah well no Mac/apple products here. Try to find something different.


So wouldnt agitating the beer at this stage allow for oxidation and lead to off flavors? I am not too hip on the definitions. Is high krausen the first 36 hours where the yeast are highly active?

Click to expand...

There are several similar programs for the PC like Beer Tools Pro and Beersmith.

Personally, I don't know that I'd risk agitating it at this point. You're almost there.

Yes, high krausen is when the yeast are highly active. It will be like pitching a bunch of a sharks who are already in a feeding frenzy into a swimming pool full of precious, defenseless, but mostly delicious, baby harp seals.

I use a refractometer and it reads in brix im sure you have the same kind they dont read spec gravity in numbers. your brix reading should be around 6 to 7 if its fermented out that would give you around .010 for a final gravity. once it starts fermenting you cant read the brix scale like you should have right after the boil. bottom line if your at 6 or 7 your at terminal gravity

I'd re-pitch.

Reading FG with a refractometer without adjusting it a common error. The refractive index of a water-alcohol-sugar mix is different from just water-sugar. You need to know the OG to know how much to adjust.

Shooter said:

There are several similar programs for the PC like Beer Tools Pro and Beersmith.

Personally, I don't know that I'd risk agitating it at this point. You're almost there.

Yes, high krausen is when the yeast are highly active. It will be like pitching a bunch of a sharks who are already in a feeding frenzy into a swimming pool full of precious, defenseless, but mostly delicious, baby harp seals.

Click to expand...

LoL thought so. So just make a wort like 1 liter? Pitch the yeast in the bottle let it ferment for 12-36 and pitch it into the beer? What about oxygen for the yeast in the secondary? Seems like its pretty anaerobic in there.

thristy said:

I use a refractometer and it reads in brix im sure you have the same kind they dont read spec gravity in numbers. your brix reading should be around 6 to 7 if its fermented out that would give you around .010 for a final gravity. once it starts fermenting you cant read the brix scale like you should have right after the boil. bottom line if your at 6 or 7 your at terminal gravity

Click to expand...

Yeah this refractometer that I own is in SG and I dont know the conversion. I looked it up and its such a discreet unit that it is hard to get any information on it. I am not sure if this can be used with beer anyways. It does has units of ppt. This is used for salt concentration in water. Its use for saltwater reef aquariums. I am not sure if this makes a difference. What do you think about think of this?

david_42 said:

I'd re-pitch.

Reading FG with a refractometer without adjusting it a common error. The refractive index of a water-alcohol-sugar mix is different from just water-sugar. You need to know the OG to know how much to adjust.

Click to expand...

I will make sure I do this for now on.

You have the wrong refractometer you need one that reads brix. Im a mechanic and have a refractometer for reading battery acid gravity and antifreeze but I cant use it for beer will not measure sugar content.

pjewell said:

LoL thought so. So just make a wort like 1 liter? Pitch the yeast in the bottle let it ferment for 12-36 and pitch it into the beer? What about oxygen for the yeast in the secondary? Seems like its pretty anaerobic in there.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'm totally speculating, but I'm thinking, since you've got a wort that's only 1.030 gravity right now, pitching a well oxygenated starter, I'd probably just do a liter, is going to give you enough yeast that they're not going to have to replicate much more to be at the amount they need to start fermentation. I think the oxygen is primarily used during the replication phase. At that low gravity with the amount you'll be pitching I'm not sure I'd risk aerating the beer now, but I could be way off base with that line of thinking.

EDIT: Okay, reading further about your refractometer. It's hard to say what your current gravity is then. If it's not the proper type for this application you may or may not be at 1.030.

thristy said:

You have the wrong refractometer you need one that reads brix. Im a mechanic and have a refractometer for reading battery acid gravity and antifreeze but I cant use it for beer will not measure sugar content.

Click to expand...

Yeah, its the wrong one for beer. But its the right one for my reef aquarium. :fro:

Shooter said:

Okay, I'm totally speculating, but I'm thinking, since you've got a wort that's only 1.030 gravity right now, pitching a well oxygenated starter, I'd probably just do a liter, is going to give you enough yeast that they're not going to have to replicate much more to be at the amount they need to start fermentation. I think the oxygen is primarily used during the replication phase. At that low gravity with the amount you'll be pitching I'm not sure I'd risk aerating the beer now, but I could be way off base with that line of thinking.

EDIT: Okay, reading further about your refractometer. It's hard to say what your current gravity is then. If it's not the proper type for this application you may or may not be at 1.030.

Click to expand...

Ok. From what I read, I understand that yeast do not like to be stressed. Is the starter wort lower in gravity to pitch into a higher gravity wort (in this case high gravity beer)?


I really should get a REAL beer hydrometer. lol. It may be just a sweet beer? I should take a sample to my LHBS to see what he would say....


Also a dry hop couldnt hurt it.



And again, I feel this is my first large brew from the Mr. Beer. So I am not sweating it. I bottled a few a different stages to see what and how they will taste like at those stages. Just for fun.


I am just having fun with it now. But next brew. Its on. I think I will do all grain Blonde Ale because its so simple and the ingredients so few. I've read a lot in the past month. Learned a lot.

pjewell said:

Ok. From what I read, I understand that yeast do not like to be stressed. Is the starter wort lower in gravity to pitch into a higher gravity wort (in this case high gravity beer)?

Click to expand...

What was weird about the hydrometer reading you were getting does it read 1.000 in distilled water? If it’s off you can just correct the final reading by plus or minus whatever the reading is off in distilled water. If you can get an accurate reading with it I might do that, but I also probably wouldn’t worry to much about stressing the yeast.

The starter wort is normally lower because it's easier for the yeast to get going and do all their replication and stuff in the lower gravity wort. Then when you pitch them into the higher gravity wort, they've already done some reproducing, so there's enough of them, and they're a little less shocked at being introduced immediately to that really high gravity environment.

If you make a small starter and your gravity IS somewhere down around 1.030 I don’t figure they’ll need to replicate much. Personally, I’d probably just rehydrate another packet of your original dry yeast and pitch that, but a liquid starter at high krausen might get things rolling a little quicker. Heck, I was about to pitch some REALLY old Mr. Beer yeast into my fermenter last night because I thought my beer never fermented. Again, turned out it fermented at some point and I never really observed any activity, but that's why I took a gravity reading before doing anything drastic.

Shooter said:

What was weird about the hydrometer reading you were getting does it read 1.000 in distilled water?

Click to expand...

Of course it does! So thats what I am confused about. Why wouldn't it work to show the index of refraction? It can measure urine or anything else. Why not beer? I would assume all that is different is a graph imposed into the inside lenses to allow you to take a reading.


Unless the refractometer for beer and a refractometer for salt levels are fundamentally constructed differently. I wouldnt see the problem!? I just need a conversion factor. Like Celsius to Fahrenheit.


I do need a real beer hydrometer, so I can put this issue to rest. :cross:

pjewell said:

Of course it does! So thats what I am confused about. Why wouldn't it work to show the index of refraction? It can measure urine or anything else. Why not beer? I would assume all that is different is a graph imposed into the inside lenses to allow you to take a reading.


Unless the refractometer for beer and a refractometer for salt levels are fundamentally constructed differently. I wouldnt see the problem!? I just need a conversion factor. Like Celsius to Fahrenheit.


I do need a real beer hydrometer, so I can put this issue to rest. :cross:

Click to expand...

I think the following response where someone asked if you had a hydrometer had me confused:

pjewell said:

I do, but I was getting weird results from it so I didnt use it. I need to test the hydrometer and the refractormeter out against each other to see where they both stand and test those against a known standard.

Click to expand...

You seem to be saying you are getting a weird result from your hydrometer. So, do you have both a hydrometer and a refractometer? If you're saying your hydrometer is reading 1.000 in distilled can't you use that to verify your gravity or are you saying it is also not a beer hydrometer? Sometimes you're talking about refraction in answer to a question about a hydrometer. So, I'm not always clear if we're talking about the same instrument here.

Shooter said:

I think the following response where someone asked if you had a hydrometer had me confused:



You seem to be saying you are getting a weird result from your hydrometer. So, do you have both a hydrometer and a refractometer? If you're saying your hydrometer is reading 1.000 in distilled can't you use that to verify your gravity or are you saying it is also not a beer hydrometer? Sometimes you're talking about refraction in answer to a question about a hydrometer. So, I'm not always clear if we're talking about the same instrument here.

Click to expand...

I understand. Both instruments test the same thing so its easy to mix them up. I do have both. I figured the hydrometer was getting weird results on a previous brew. Although now I think it was right. Now with this current brew, I expected 1.016 at the very most considering its mostly UME/DME.


I am still cautious to believe them until I can test a standard solution. To be honest, distilled water is fine for a "quick check"; however, it should be tested on a "known standard solution" such as standard solution of salt water: 35 ppt would read 1.023 SG if I am not mistaken. From there, the hydrometer OR refractometer is adjusted to those levels if need be. From there on out, it is accurate, but needs recalibrations biannually to annually.




So I will continue using both for right now until I purchase a new one. A hydrometer preferably. I will just track my OG and FG normally. Accurate or not, both of what I have are precision. I can pull a sample and test it three times with three times the same results. I assume it would be accurate for testing sugar content as well. Although, it would not surprise me if it would not. I might not get the actual gravity, but at least I can track the progress.


I havent even used the hydrometer to test this one. So it still needs to be checked with it. I really don't like digging in my beer so its been kind of a waiting game. I am alway from it most of the time too.


I will go to my LHBS and see whats up and ask for a second pack of yeast. I will take a OG from this current brew and hopefully get a 1.010!!!! Yeah right. We will see.


oh EDIT: thanks for sticking through the nutty beer debacle with me. but only I will have to eat this **** sandwich and have to smile...

So I hit 1.010 haha. Tastes ok. Not as sweet. More or less warm beer thats meant to be cold.

Heres what I did...

I swirled it up ever so lightly. Just enough to disturb the yeast cake at the bottom. Left it alone for two days. Check it with a hydrometer 1.010 and a refractormeter 1.034. So I am going to bottle in a day or so.


So thats whats up with that.




Just for fun. I bottled some the same day as I racked into the secondary and primed it. Left it alone for 2 weeks and opened it just now. Great stuff. Not bitter. Good carbonation. Good thick head although it did not have a lot of retention. Little chill haze. Over all I am happy with it.


I am bottling the other 5 gallons or so tomorrow.

pjewell said:

I swirled it up ever so lightly. Just enough to disturb the yeast cake at the bottom. Left it alone for two days. Check it with a hydrometer 1.010 and a refractormeter 1.034. So I am going to bottle in a day or so.


So thats whats up with that.

Click to expand...

Once there is alcohol in the liquid, the refractometer isn't accurate any more. You have to use a conversion tool to account for the alcohol. It's easiest just to use the hydrometer once fermentation has begun.

pjewell said:

So I hit 1.010 haha. Tastes ok. Not as sweet. More or less warm beer thats meant to be cold.

Heres what I did...

I swirled it up ever so lightly. Just enough to disturb the yeast cake at the bottom. Left it alone for two days. Check it with a hydrometer 1.010 and a refractormeter 1.034. So I am going to bottle in a day or so.


So thats whats up with that.




Just for fun. I bottled some the same day as I racked into the secondary and primed it. Left it alone for 2 weeks and opened it just now. Great stuff. Not bitter. Good carbonation. Good thick head although it did not have a lot of retention. Little chill haze. Over all I am happy with it.


I am bottling the other 5 gallons or so tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Maybe the yeast were able to replicate enough after being depleted and swirling kicked them back up into suspension enough to do their thing. Now, got get a proper set of instruments and keep on brewing. Congrats on the beer!