protein rest causing scorched element

I have been running 4 gallon batches on my stovetop 2 vessel brewery I have linked in my signature.
I recently decided to try 122F protein rests before my sach rest.

During the heating between rests, ONLY when I tried protein rests, my element had serious scorching issues. I noticed this first by the horrid smell coming out of the mash, like burnt rubber. It is a high watt density 2000 watt element, but I have been brewing with it, mashing and boiling, many times before with no residual burning or flavor effect.

The scorching happened twice in a row, both batches having tried protein rests. I brewed again right after without the protein rest, and everything was fine.

It is only while doing protein rests, or more specifically, after the protein rest and while raising the temp to another step, that I had this problem.

Can anyone help me out with some reasons why the protein rest is causing the scorching?

Also what strategy would help me accomplish a protein rest without exposing the element to all the protein gloop that apparently sticks to the element?
I figure I could try multiple hot infusions without recirculating, but I don't wanna do that if possible.

Well, has anyone been successful with a protein rest in contact with an electric element? Was the element visually ok after brewing? Want to nail this down so any input would be helpful.

Have you tried a ULWD element? Is the element Incoloy (stainless) or zinc?

Budzu said:

Well, has anyone been successful with a protein rest in contact with an electric element? Was the element visually ok after brewing? Want to nail this down so any input would be helpful.

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No, that is an interesting question, though. One reason I went with a HERMS is to get quickly to mashout temps without having an element touch my mash.

I'm somewhat shooting from the hip with this one, but I'll give you my educated guess. I'm thinking that you are scorching due to decreased flow around the element resulting in localized boiling and the resulting sugar/protein deposits. I don't fire my element during BiaB mashing for this very reason (not bag melting concerns, but scorching concerns) and do infusions for multi-step mashes w/o recirculation. I'm really beginning to consider adding a second vessel to my eBiaB keggle setup to act as a HERMS loop for this very reason.

Done many protein rests on my CB20 rig which has a 2KW HD element. Never seen a trace of scorching.

yeah its a HWD element. I even run it with a stir plate so I was really doubting the lack of flow, but the second time I burned it I noticed the stir bar had been knocked aside. I must've done that the first time as well. I think I will try it once more.

jkarp, do you do your protein rests at 122? or over 130?

120-122 Budzu. It's worth noting that Brutus 20 mashes are quite thin with recirculation however. That could explain why I'm not experiencing any scorching.

Very very strange. I usually BIAB with my electric kettle. I typically skip the protein rest altogether, and my beers turn out great. I was brewing a Pale Ale today, and thought I would do a protein rest to see if I could tell the difference. (It's a recipe I've brewed before.) And wouldn't you know it...totally scorched element, nasty burnt smell in wort, and kind of smoky flavor in the hydrometer sample. I'm fermenting out to completion anyway. Maybe it will taste.......interesting. Or like an ash tray. Who knows. But I think we are onto something here.

Skip the protein rest.

I had no issues scorching on about a dozen electric brews with 2 x1200w HD elements. I made a beer with 50% rye and both elements scorched and had to be replaced. I presumed this to be because of the high protein content in the rye (the wort looked like egg drop soup). I've been a little hesitant to make a rye beer since, eager to see what feedback you get.

Is it a problem with the ingredients? I had the same problem and soon realized that if I added any pre-gelatinized ingredients (flaked wheat, flacked oats, etc) it would quickly burn on my element. For those beers I switched back to propane and no problems. It's weird because one would think that the protein exists wether or not you do a protein rest, right? Why would it burn during the protein rest and nowhere else I. The process?

ylpaul2000 said:

Is it a problem with the ingredients? I had the same problem and soon realized that if I added any pre-gelatinized ingredients (flaked wheat, flacked oats, etc) it would quickly burn on my element. For those beers I switched back to propane and no problems. It's weird because one would think that the protein exists wether or not you do a protein rest, right? Why would it burn during the protein rest and nowhere else I. The process?

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In my case I was using 100% weyermann standard pilsner malt. 2 scorches in a row with 122F rests. Ran again without protein rests, no problems at all. I continue to brew without protein rests and there's been no scorching.

The scorching occurred quickly while raising the mash temp after the protein rest.

Another poster here used a rye malt WITHOUT protein rest and experienced this.

If you have had this issue, let us know your ingredient. I still have no explanation for this but it will be interesting trying to narrow it down. I keep hoping some chemist will stop by and have all the answers

Maybe I missed it but I don't see it mentioned anywhere... Your setup must be RIMS right? Such the wort is in contact with the elements while heating during mashing?

My last batch was 100% Wyermann Organic Pils based and I did a ~122F protein rest without any issues and then ramped up...but then I'm HERMS so the wort never comes in contact with the element during mashing. Only in the boil kettle.

Your sure the scorching is in the mash and not when you go to boil?

Kal

Its a two-vessel recirculating mash, so the kettle holds about 2 gallons of mash liquid, acting as the RIMS heater. So yeah Kal, its alot of direct contact, and it was definitely noticeable by a burnt smell in the room, during the ramp from protein to sach rest. This was identical to two batches in a row, same day, different element (but same model).

Hmm, strange. You're certainly looking down the right path wondering if there's something about the protein rest then... Sorry, I really don't know however. First I hear of something like this.

Kal

I have no problems with any kind of rest. I am however using two ULW density 4500W/240V (1125 actual watts) elements. High watt density is probably too hot. I even use LWD elements in the boil.

I too had issues with burnt/scorched flavors when rapping up significant temperature amounts in my RIMS setup. Due to the low dough-in temperature and the necessary subsequent mash temperature increase required with protein rests, I would always get the off flavor.

I am currently building a HERMS setup.