German Hefe- Weizen questions

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Rodan

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HI!

I am about to attempt my first all grain 5 gallon recipe for a traditional German Hefe-Weizen.
Im using 70% wheat to 30% pale two row. Approximate IBU is 15 through Hallertauer hops. Im also going to use Wyeast strain 3068 (2.5 months old).

My question involves proper mashing steps. The recipe suggests a decoction mashing and outlines the procedures. However, i want to simplify things a little and do a step mash process.

Heres the plan: Im going to use 1 liter for every 1 pound of grain.
-Mash in at 40 degrees celcius ( I live in Canada!)
-raise heat to 55 degress on stove and rest for 25 mins, stiring every 5 mins.
- Raise to 66 using boiling water, rest for 15 mins
- raise to 70 using stove and rest for 20mins
- raise to 77 for sac rest.
-mash out to lautering tun.

Any one see any definite problems? I belive that i covered all to nessesary temp for conversion right?

Lautering- Sparge water at 77 degrees. Some have suggested that lautering should take 1.5 to 2 hours to complete. I was quite suprized because i had assumed that it would only take a half an hour. Can anyone share any experiences with the length of time spent lautering versus quality of final wort?

The rest of the process is reasonably straigh forward (boil and hopping and cooling)...

Any tips will be MUCH appreciated! Thanks for helping out an all-grain newbie!
 
In general, slower sparging means better extraction. If you can stretch it to 1 hr that would be good. It usually takes me about 1 hr 20 min or so for mine.
 
excellent! Thanks for the great advice man! Ill re-work the formula to lengthen the process to an hour and 10-20mins.:)

Any advise for the length of lautering time?
 
Rodan said:
Heres the plan: Im going to use 1 liter for every 1 pound of grain.
-Mash in at 40 degrees celcius ( I live in Canada!)
-raise heat to 55 degress on stove and rest for 25 mins, stiring every 5 mins.
- Raise to 66 using boiling water, rest for 15 mins
- raise to 70 using stove and rest for 20mins
- raise to 77 for sac rest.
-mash out to lautering tun.

-depending on how much clove you want to have in the final beer, hold the mash at 45 *C for 0-20min. This is the ferulic acid rest.
- with wheat I still like having the protein rest at 50*C. hold there for 20-30 min.
- hold the saccrification rest at 66*C for 60 min. otherwise you won't get enough fermentables.
- hold the rest at 70 until conversion is complete. This should already be the case if you rested at 66 for 60 min.
- mash-out at 75 *C. 77 *C is getting a little high

Lautering- Sparge water at 77 degrees. Some have suggested that lautering should take 1.5 to 2 hours to complete. I was quite suprized because i had assumed that it would only take a half an hour. Can anyone share any experiences with the length of time spent lautering versus quality of final wort?

If you fly-sparge it should take more than an hour. If you batch-sparge, the sparge can be done in 20-30min.

Kai
 
Hmmm...the C's really throw me off. Check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7713

Around post #37 it starts getting into multi-step mashes. Also, you will definitely be sparging longer than 30 minutes if you're fly sparging. If you batch sparge you can trim that down to how fast it takes you to heat a batch of water.

I'd consider reducing the wheat/barley ratio to 50/50 if this is your first AG batch.
 
thanks Kaiser and Baron... this is exactly what i wanted to hear!

Ill reformulate! (and find the difference between batch sparging and fly sparging... :drunk: )

CHEERS!
 
Where in Canada are you?

Please see our web site if you're near Montreal:

www.montreAlers.ca

If you're new at all grain, you might want to go for a single step infusion instead of a step or decoction mash. I've been doing it that way for years and have had excellent results.

You might want to go to a 50/50 wheat and barley grain bill also. Stuck mash is not fun.

:ban: yay hefe!
 
You know generally when I read about someone doing wheat here, there is a suggestion to add rice hulls to help prevent stuck fermentations. I don't know much about rice hulls, but want to do a wheat next month. Homebrew_99 talked about this special yeast that WL makes only in July and August. Is there a percentage of rice hulls you use per pound of wheat? How do you go about deciding how much to use?
 
I did an AG wheat not too long ago (Kaiser and Baron probably remember talking me through it). (It was also my first true AG beer). . I used 65% 35% wheat/Barley. . . ended up with a quasi stuck sparge, but worked through it and the beer turned out phenomenal. Plan on a slow sparge. I was a bit impatient for mine.

I was going to attempt a decoction but instead did a 2 step infusion mash with obvious good results.

Other hints, watch your hop content--don't get it too bitter if you're attempting a Bavarian style. For 5 gallons, I used only 0.75 oz total (bittering only) of Hallertau Hersbrucker (low AA content--can't remember off the top of my head). I believe I used Weyermann Wheat malt and Durst Pils instead of Pale. My yeast was Wyeast's 3068 Weihenstephan weizen strain.


Good luck!:mug:
 
Simplify as much as possible and then step it up as you learn your system. Something as simple as adding heat to your mash for the first time can easily turn to scalded results. A pot that you think is capable of handling the mash with additional infusions of water can be under estimated or leaving too little room to work with. Taking small bites will lead to less chance of a major disaster. However if you are like me, I don't always listen to my own advice and just go for broke.
 
I'm going to jump on the "Single temp infusion mash schedule" Wagon.

This first time, just go for the sac temp of about 152F. Until you get familiar with the AG brewday processes keep it simple. Once you can CONSISTANTLY hit your mash temps dead on, then start trying to do step mash's.

Another thing you will have to resist is the urge to check your temps every ten secs. Once you infuse hot water, give it 2-5 min for temps to stabilize and then stir and check temps. Assume that is the right temp. DO NOT feel the need to check temps often.

Also, if possible, do a batch sparge (personal preference on my part). It is much simpler and significantly shortens the brew day. If you need help figuring volumes, let me know and I'll work with you. Fly sparging works well, but if you havent seen it done, it gets confusing.

Lastly, if you have some one close by that can show you how an AG brewday looks before you do your own (Lets you sit in on their session), try to do that. Knowing whats its supposed to look like will pay big dividends on your first brew day.

Good Luck with all.

Sean
 
Beer Snob said:
You know generally when I read about someone doing wheat here, there is a suggestion to add rice hulls to help prevent stuck fermentations. I don't know much about rice hulls, but want to do a wheat next month. Homebrew_99 talked about this special yeast that WL makes only in July and August. Is there a percentage of rice hulls you use per pound of wheat? How do you go about deciding how much to use?
As a reminder, that yeast is WLP351. You can read about it on Whitelabs website. I believe I purchased it from midwestsupplies.com for less than WL was charging. It's avalable from many other sources, just google "WLP351".:D
 
Beer Snob said:
You know generally when I read about someone doing wheat here, there is a suggestion to add rice hulls to help prevent stuck fermentations. I don't know much about rice hulls, but want to do a wheat next month.

They help prevent a stuck sparge, not fermentation. They keep the grain bed from getting to mushy/compacted. I just did one with 60% wheat, and used half a pound of hulls. Had an effortless sparge.
 
hey guys!

This is great... thanks a lot for all the feedback! Excellent community!

Im right in the process of mashing (right now!) following kaisers suggestions... im currently doing the 50degree rest for 30 mins.

I did a little practicing last night for temperature control, which made me a little more confident with knowing my stove so i think ill be ok with that.

Im using hallertau hops and plan on using a little under an oz. because i did the calculation suggested in "the joy of homebrewing".

I really think that because this is my first time for AG, im going to take the "don't worry to much" route and just see what happeneds. Really, whats the worst that can happen? Im out 25$ BUT i learned a lot.

Regardless, thanks for the great advise! This is an awesome forum!:rockin:
 
Beer Snob said:
Is there a percentage of rice hulls you use per pound of wheat? How do you go about deciding how much to use?
I usually figure around 0.1# rice hulls for ever # of wheat. Basically, my Hefeweizen recipe calls for 5.5# of wheat and I use 1/2# rice hulls. My Weizenbock calls for 9# of wheat and I use a whole # of rice hulls in that one. It's probably a bit system dependent, but that should be a good starting point.
 
seanhagerty said:
Lastly, if you have some one close by that can show you how an AG brewday looks before you do your own (Lets you sit in on their session), try to do that. Knowing whats its supposed to look like will pay big dividends on your first brew day.

You know! You are absolutly right! I did my first AG before National Homebrew Day..... what can I say... if you saw the thread you know I had some challenges.... but this one I just did after seeing it half the day... I was like really cool about it. Was not nearly as concerned about things like I was the first time and I even had some curve balls thrown at me.....
 
well... brew day went well although im suprized how long it took! 7 hours, probably because i am new to this.

I took the gravity after i cooled the wort (before i pitched the yeast) and was suprized to see that it was 1.040. The directions i was using for the recipe said that i should get a gravity of 1.055. Does anyone have and tips or ideas?

I did a good sparge (an hour and 20 mins) using 77-80 degree water.
Everything else was exactly what Kaiser suggested.

I dont want to boost gravity using dextrose cause it gets that "cidery" flavour.

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

Thanks!!:)
 
Rodan said:
I took the gravity after i cooled the wort (before i pitched the yeast) and was suprized to see that it was 1.040. The directions i was using for the recipe said that i should get a gravity of 1.055. Does anyone have and tips or ideas?
Poor efficiency due to this being your first AG batch and probably the inherent trickiness of a large % of wheat in the mash. The good news is that your efficiency will go up as you get more accustomed to the AG process. The bad news is that you have a lot of searching on 'efficiency' and reading to do. :mug:
 
great, thanks guys!

Ill double check my hydrometer just to make sure.

Whatever happens, im pretty happy with myself! I got up today to find the beer fermenting strongly. Color looks great too. AND im really suprized to see how clear i was able to get the wort just by sparging!

Ill start to read up on efficiency after work, hopefully i can learn how to maximize the sugar usage. For now i guess ill just have a beer with lower alcohol...

So, you guys wouldnt adjust the gravity through extra sugars or something??
 
great!

Thanks for the advise. Regardless of the alcohol potential, im still quite proud!

Its fermenting like crazy anyway... i couldnt be happier!
 
quick question...

Im thinking about the inevitable priming of the beer prior to bottling.
I dont want to use dextrose because i hate the way it imparts a cider taste to my brew.
My options are: Dry Malt Extract OR Light Malt Extract "syrup"

I dont want to change the favour of my first AG beer.

Which one would you guys use (for a 70% wheat 30% pale two row, Wyeast weihenstephan strain Hefe-Weizen)??

:confused:
 
i see...

well i dont have immediate access to wheat DME... BUT i do have access to "light" DME .

Its only going to be used for priming though... should be alright... Right??!?
 
Beer Snob said:
You know generally when I read about someone doing wheat here, there is a suggestion to add rice hulls to help prevent stuck fermentations. I don't know much about rice hulls, but want to do a wheat next month. Homebrew_99 talked about this special yeast that WL makes only in July and August. Is there a percentage of rice hulls you use per pound of wheat? How do you go about deciding how much to use?

Rice hulls are use in the mash to help prevent stuck mashes by creating a larger filter bed and make up for wheats lack of hulls.
 
mysterio said:
It will be fine whatever you prime it with, don't worry!
I agree. (I was just giving you my preferences.)

But since you believe your brew may be a tad low on the % I'd overprime it a wee bit (add 1 TBS over what you'd prime with) to get it spritzier looking in the glass.:D
 
Yeah, hefes really benefit with a lot of fizz. Here's what you should use for 3 vol's of CO2 for 5 gallons, which is still below the style guidelines (don't be afraid to use more!)

Sugar TypeWeightGlucose (dextrose or corn sugar)5.7 ozSucrose (table sugar)5.5 ozDME 55% AA (eg: Laaglander)13.2 ozDME 70% AA (eg: Northwestern)10.4 ozDME 75% AA (eg: Munton & Fison)9.7 oz
 
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