Danstar Munich VS Fermentis WB-06 (Happy Wife Wheat)

How did those two brews ever turn out Pisty_Pete?
I am about to brew a 2 gallon batch with the Danstar Munich!

tronnyjenkins said:

How did those two brews ever turn out Pisty_Pete?
I am about to brew a 2 gallon batch with the Danstar Munich!

Click to expand...

That wasn't me that did those two brews, actually. I did brew a roggenbier with wb-06 however. It turned out pretty decent. Not one of my favorites, but not bad.

The yeast seemed to perform ok. Fermentation started within 8 hours of pitching and although it did not ferment too vigorously (no blow-off) it attenuated alright. It did not (I guess as can be expected) flocculate very well at all.

And, as far as flavor/esters and phenolics are concerned there's really no detectable banana or clove. I, myself, will most likely not be using this yeast again. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
p

Damn. Well I am thinking about doing it this weekend.
I might sweet talk the local brewpub and see if I could score some of his wheat beer yeast.
They have a freakin killer dunkel.

I used WB-06 recently and it has a strong bubblegum/banana flavor, I fermented higher at about 70.

whichever yeast i use i will be doing 70 degrees... its what i keep my house at

do you think if i put the fermentor over by the warm back door and were able to keep it around 75 degrees F it might produce more banana and clove flavors?

I have very good success with WB-06, but i open ferment when using it and ferment at 64, never more then 66. I also use very soft water with my weizen. Gives the perfect balance of banana/clove with a hint of vanilla. I'm guessing there will be a good amount of phenol/ester suppression @70+ in a carboy with an airlock, not the ideal way to ferment this style imo.

Hey, Im new to the forum. I need a little help. Ive just laid down a wheat beer with Danstar Munich. I pitched at around 24C with OG of about 1050 ish. Rehydrated the wheat beforehand, and after about 5 days no bubbling atall. Has anyone had this problem. I got maybe a 1 and a half maybe 2 inch krausen after a day or two but even thats starting to settle now. Ive kept the temp constant at around 22/23 C. There are no off smells coming from the beer atall, its just stuck! Should i stir, change temp.? Any advice would be really appreciated.

Sean10 said:

Hey, Im new to the forum. I need a little help. Ive just laid down a wheat beer with Danstar Munich. I pitched at around 24C with OG of about 1050 ish. Rehydrated the wheat beforehand, and after about 5 days no bubbling atall. Has anyone had this problem. I got maybe a 1 and a half maybe 2 inch krausen after a day or two but even thats starting to settle now. Ive kept the temp constant at around 22/23 C. There are no off smells coming from the beer atall, its just stuck! Should i stir, change temp.? Any advice would be really appreciated.

Click to expand...

If you have krausen then it's fermenting. Never go by the airlock. you most likely have some leaks and the CO2 is coming out of there and not the airlock.
Wait until the krausen has fallen and then take a gravity reading. Take the reading 3 days in a row and if it's the same all three days it's done. (note: make sure the gravity reading is at or near where it should be for that beer and yeast.) Other then that it sounds like it's working just fine so leave it alone.

Thanks for the quick reply! much appreciated. I just did a taste test and it sure as hell tastes like its been fermenting. Some nice esters in there, a little banana, hope it stays. Time will tell, Ill post the results. Thanks again, I can tell ill be using this forum abit

BCastine said:

I have very good success with WB-06, but i open ferment when using it and ferment at 64, never more then 66. I also use very soft water with my weizen. Gives the perfect balance of banana/clove with a hint of vanilla. I'm guessing there will be a good amount of phenol/ester suppression @70+ in a carboy with an airlock, not the ideal way to ferment this style imo.

Click to expand...

I've used WB-06 in a couple different kind of wheat beers and had great success. At 60-64* my dunkelweizen comes out amazing, with the chocolate malt coming forward a bit with a nice push from behind from the slight banana produced by the yeast. My Honey Orange Hefe really benefits from fermentation temperatures around 68-70* and throws off just the right amount of banana/clove.

I hear and read people bashing dry yeast all the time (Sam Calagione and Randy Mosher apparently have nothing but contempt for them) but from my experiences I can get the same quality beer from WB-06 that I can from Wyeast #1010 or #3638 depending on temperature.

Dry yeast FTW! (you know, unless you need specialty yeast in which case you're kinda effed)

We have been using the Danstar Munich yeast for the last 8 batches of our wheat beers with decent success. I would agree we aren't able to get a true hefeweizen with it but we do get a very good beer with the addition of Summit hops at the 20 minute point. We drink through the kegs at a quick rate.

The Munich floculates quite a bit more than WL hefe yeast. It produces a solid yeast cake instead of the soft spongy mass of crap at the bottom of the fermenter we got with WL yeast. On the other hand, the resulting beer does not have as much suspended particulate (yeast) as the WL brews. If the keg lasts more than three weeks we found the beer cleared up almost like an ale, but with a wheat flavor.

We haven't tried the Wyeast products and probably should. We don't have much use for WL yeasts anymore due to the beer loss resulting from the yeasty mess. As a matter of fact, we no longer filter our ales since moving to Notty yeast as well.

I just did the exact same test.

I brewed a giant-sized batch of 42 gallons and split it in 9 carboys, 4 of which with the WB-06 and the rest with the Munich yeast.



the batch was:
60% pilsen malt
40% wheat malt (weyermann)
9 IBU worth of columbus hops
soft water (6,5 PH)
1048 OG
est. 9 EBC

I fermented for 10 days at 25ºC/ 77ºF, then dropped at 20ºC/ 69ºF for 3 more days then finally placed all carboys in my freezer to help sedimentation before racking.

at the time of the racking, here were my results:
WB-06: 1008/1009 FG (ap.att.82,7%)
Munich: 1014/1015 FG (ap.att.70%)

The munich sample was actually lighter in color that the wb-06. both had way more phenolic then fruity esters, which was quite surprising, considering the high fermentation temperature. The Munich sample was also quite sour. I used a PH measurement strip and the result was around 4 PH. Although not impossible, I would say that contamination is out of the question, as that character ONLY appeared in the Munich samples (and there were 5 carboys of those!). Unless, of course, there is a problem with the yeast.


the munich (in the back) and wb-06 samples

For what I read here, should I assume the munich must attenuate more? 1015 sounded quite high for the FG. but still, It wasnt supposed to word slower that the wb-06...

what about the sourness? was it expected? will it get better?

Great post Luis! What a great experiment. Sorry, I can't answer any of your questions as I have only used liquid yeast in the past.

Please post here again when these beers are carbonated and you start drinking them.

Just to add my $.02, I recently brewed an extract Hefe with Danstar Munich with great results. Fermentation started and finished quickly and attenuation was about 75%. The beer was nice a cloudy and the banana notes were subtle but present. This would be a great yeast for a Widmer Hefeweizen clone. I'm brewing another batch with slightly warmer temps (70 as opposed to mid 60's). We'll see what happens.

Used two packets of WB-06 on my recent German Heffe and 1 day into FMT I got concerned I wouldn't get the esters I was hoping for so I added a packet (reconstituted) of T-58. A 10 gallon batch, OG 1.048, FG 1.008!!

It's done, I'm happy, It's good!!

It would be interesting to see this yeast fermented at the bottom of it's temperature range.

Rise, thread. Rise from the dead. Rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise (hands in the air, palms up)

I just started this exact experiment yesterday. I split a 5 gallon batch in half and pitched one pack of Munich and one pack of WB-06. So far, fermentation has commenced as outlined in the previous posts with the WB-06 being quick on the draw, but the Munich being more explosive. In case the last poster is still interested, I'm fermenting these at (hopefully) 60F. I say hopefully because the strips I have on the two fermenters stop at 64F, so I set my fermentation chamber to 54F and said a prayer. I figure a 6 degree difference is fairly accurate. As of now, they're both very active.

If anybody is interested, I'll be happy to update this thread with my results. I'll await your word.

I'm interested =)

LuizArgh said:

I'm interested =)

Click to expand...

OK....Let's start with some pics, shall we?

The first one is what was greeting me when I came home from work....it's the Munich, by the way.

The second one is what they looked like right after I pitched the yeast on Sunday....no big deal, right?

This is at 54F ambient, so I'm assuming approx 60F in the fermenter.

UPDATE!!!: Munich is at 1.020 and the airlock is bubbling every 7 seconds. The WB-06 is at 1.015 and the airlock is bubbling every 12 seconds. Munich is darker. Since I'm still what you would consider a 'noob' at aroma and flavor, I'm going to have to say that he WB-06 is more 'phenolic or medicinal' than the Munich....it definitely has a stronger smell than the Munich...much more like the hefe's that I'm accustomed to. I want to say that the Munich is 'cleaner' smelling. As far as taste goes, the WB-06 seems more complex to me with the Munich being a little cleaner. I think I'm getting more banana out of the Munich. I guess maybe the WB-06 is more clovey. The Munich is definitely smoother and it's the one that I prefer, but the WB-06 is more on par with the hefe's that I'm familiar with. We'll see how they are when I get some carbonation on them. Probably within the next week. I'll keep an eye on the gravities. They were supposed to finish around 1.016 and the WB-06 is already at 1.015 with no detectable diacetyl.

Another Update: I bottled the WB-06 5 days ago and just now got around to bottling the Munich. As far as I can tell, the Fermentis is the most consistent with what I know as a hefe. The Munich seems thin and watery...a little banana aroma and flavor....kind of citrusy. The Fermentis definitely has a bolder aroma and flavor leaning toward banana (it smells a lot like Troegs Dreamweaver...I may have to pick up some Dreamweaver for comparison). Both fermented at 60F. I'll probably make my final call on aroma and flavor (including which one I prefer) in 3 weeks. Oh yeah, both of them finished at 1.012...down from 1.050.

I've tried wb-06 in hefe's and dunkelweizens, and fermented in the mid 60's and mid-70's, but all my wb-06 brews come out slightly tart. The ones fermented at higher temps get banana aromas, but no banana flavour.

Instead of trying Munich, I turned to Wyeast 3068...did a dunkel fermented at 73, and underpitched. Smelled like bananas during fermentation...but on tasting...tart! Almost identical to wb-06. Argh. I've just put down another dunkel today with the exact same ingredients, which I'll ferment at 63, but if it tastes tart I'm gonna give up and just go back to buying Weihenstephan and Paulaner darn it...

Been reading this forum for about 3 years for educational purposes. This thread inspired me to sign up since I just started a Hefe with WB-06. I've always made starters from White Labs yeasts but didn't have time so grabbed WB-06 when picking up hops at my LHBS. Milled too much base malt for 10gal. so had to recalculate for a 12 gal. batch. My brewhouse efficiency was very high so had to max out my pre-boil volume to 14.5 gal at 1.058 (new system for me). Pitched WB-06 into 68F wort at OG 1.062 (hmm, bigger beer than intended, oh well). Fermentation chamber is 57F(+/-2), quick start yeast nice Krausen at 24 hours. I'll turn up the chamber 5 degrees after peak of primary.

CarnieBrew said:

I've tried wb-06 in hefe's and dunkelweizens, and fermented in the mid 60's and mid-70's, but all my wb-06 brews come out slightly tart. The ones fermented at higher temps get banana aromas, but no banana flavour.

Instead of trying Munich, I turned to Wyeast 3068...did a dunkel fermented at 73, and underpitched. Smelled like bananas during fermentation...but on tasting...tart! Almost identical to wb-06. Argh. I've just put down another dunkel today with the exact same ingredients, which I'll ferment at 63, but if it tastes tart I'm gonna give up and just go back to buying Weihenstephan and Paulaner darn it...

Click to expand...

The last post reminded me to follow this up. I'm surprised I forgot, as the 17C (62.5F) fermentation of my latest dunkel with 3068 turned out absolutely brilliant, if I may say so myself! The taste and aroma are virtually spot on for the Weihenstephan weizen style. I couldn't be more happy as I'm a huge fan of this style. From now on it's 3068 at 17C all the way...

Another thing to try that might affect banana/clove balance is a ferulic acid rest at 111 degrees for 20 minutes.

ShaineT said:

Another thing to try that might affect banana/clove balance is a ferulic acid rest at 111 degrees for 20 minutes.

Click to expand...

I think this helps. I have done weizen beers with and without a 10 min rest at about 113f and I notice a subtle difference. But, caveat, I didn't do a blind tasting so it could be confirmation bias at work.

highgravitybacon said:

I think this helps. I have done weizen beers with and without a 10 min rest at about 113f and I notice a subtle difference. But, caveat, I didn't do a blind tasting so it could be confirmation bias at work.

Click to expand...

I actually didn't do that rest on my current hefe, figured lower temps and the WB-06 would already have control of esters etc. After 7 days at 57-58F Krausen started to drop with less CO2 production so I slowly raised ambient to 65F and it still has good activity with some krausen at day 10. I'll give it another 4 days or so and check gravity.

Having issues with this brew. Looking back at my notes and made a big mistake as I have a pre-boil gravity of 1.058 and no post-boil measurement. Calculated an OG based on 1.5 gallons evaporation and I'm at around 1.063
So the krausen dropped out at day 13 and I needed room in my fermentation chamber so I figured "its a hefe, it can be racked and kegged fresh". So racked to 2 corny kegs and FG is 1.020, hmmmm. I'm doing a yeast wash from the fermenter and will pitch back a small amount of it into the kegs, put on air-lock adapters and let them sit in my 72F basement for a while. This will likely end up being a weizenbock! I wanted a 5%ABV summer hefe LOL. Oh well.

I too did this experiment, split a ten gallon batch using this recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/widmer-hefeweizen-american-wheat-129051/
I'm limited to dry yeasts because of where I live and have been trying to find a good heff making yeast.


Just kegged both batches today, both started at 1.048 and ended at 1.01. Like others have posted, the danstar tastes sour and very watery. The safale tastes much better, with banana/clove hints found in a heff.

Danstar needed a blow off tube and took off very fast. Safale took its time to start, but also needed a blow off tube. I fermented both at 67.

Lesson learned, no more danstar Munich for me. Now I'm debating how to improve this crummy danstar sour taste. Maybe dry hop the heck out of it and try to mask the flavor...

The Danstar sour taste will correct itself. Just have some patience with it. At the beginning, I felt that the WB-06 was far superior but, at the end of the batch, the Danstar was the one that I preferred. It's very interesting how they both change over a few weeks.

jeremy0209 said:

The Danstar sour taste will correct itself. Just have some patience with it.

Click to expand...

Yep, I'm reviving this thread...

I recently read (somewhere...) that Danstar Munich is the same strain as WLP380. I have no way to agree or disagree with that but I'm willing to give it a shot as I've been on a dry yeast spree over the past few months. I've read several clues that tend to make me agree it is a kin to WLP380 and the statement above reaffirms my experience with WLP380. I used to push it with my weissbiers but they were always tart/bitter early on, so one time I decided to just put them in the fridge for 3-4 weeks after carbonation was complete and they were fantastic after that. Like any beer, a little cold conditioning works a small miracle and the advice to drink this style young shouldn't be taken too literal.

A little red wagon of mine about this style...

I feel like some of the reviews of the dry weissbier strains are unfair because people don't know how to brew this style. Mainly, I see so many people trying to duplicate the traditional weissbier character by fermenting high (high 60s to low 70F), that is exactly opposite of what we should be doing! The traditional aromas and flavors are produced by stressing the yeast on the low end, not the high end. Look at any authority on the style you will see the proper advice, start the beer low and allow it to naturally rise into the lower 60s. My procedure is to pitch at 58F-60F and allow a natural rise to 62F-64F, I would call 65F a definite upper limit in my experience. Above that, you will start to notice thinning body and a definite lack of definition throughout the beer. A nice read is Kai's wiki dedicated to the style. link Also, Eric Warner's book, German Wheat Beer, which can be had quite cheap on Amazon, is a great reference of the style.

So, anyway, I will be giving Danstar Munich a workout in the near future and will report back. **fingers crossed**

Ryat66 said:

Yep, I'm reviving this thread...

I feel like some of the reviews of the dry weissbier strains are unfair because people don't know how to brew this style. Mainly, I see so many people trying to duplicate the traditional weissbier character by fermenting high (high 60s to low 70F), that is exactly opposite of what we should be doing! The traditional aromas and flavors are produced by stressing the yeast on the low end, not the high end. Look at any authority on the style you will see the proper advice, start the beer low and allow it to naturally rise into the lower 60s. My procedure is to pitch at 58F-60F and allow a natural rise to 62F-64F, I would call 65F a definite upper limit in my experience. Above that, you will start to notice thinning body and a definite lack of definition throughout the beer. A nice read is Kai's wiki dedicated to the style. link Also, Eric Warner's book, German Wheat Beer, which can be had quite cheap on Amazon, is a great reference of the style.

So, anyway, I will be giving Danstar Munich a workout in the near future and will report back. **fingers crossed**

Click to expand...

Another resurrection...

Dude... how did this turn out? Did you use Munich yeast? I'm debating whether to try it. Your advice above reflects my own experience and education. I intend to try both dry yeasts eventually (probably not for a while, but eventually) but wonder if Munich yeast is even worth it. Any update would be very much appreciated!

We can add to this now...Danstar produces a new yeast (since this thread was first about) called "Munich Classic", which many are saying is (finally!) the dried version of 3068. I still haven't tried it but will soon.

BTW, I have used Munich and WB-06 with the same low temps as I use with 3068, i.e. fermenting at 17C (62F), and it doesn't work. I'm convinced WB-06 is more for Witbier, and prehaps Munich too. Looking forward to trying Munich Classic at the 17C temps.

dmtaylor said:

Another resurrection...

Dude... how did this turn out? Did you use Munich yeast? I'm debating whether to try it. Your advice above reflects my own experience and education. I intend to try both dry yeasts eventually (probably not for a while, but eventually) but wonder if Munich yeast is even worth it. Any update would be very much appreciated!

Click to expand...

Hey man, it's always great to re-visit this thread.

I'm sorry that I didn't respond back even though I had said I would. So, last summer I made two different batches, one with the Munich and the other with Munich Classic. I would need to review my notes for specifics but the Munich Classic was 10x better than the Munich.

Personally, I would order them as follow:

1. Danstar Munich Classic
2. Fermentis WB-06
3. Danstar Munich

Thanks guys. I'm thinking I'll never use the old "Munich" ever, but would be willing to try the newer "Munich Classic" if I can find that one. And I still think WB-06 is probably worth some experiments.

If you cannot already tell, I'm very interested in getting some dry yeasts to take the place of old liquid favorites like WLP380 and Wyeast 3068. Dry yeast is so much easier to use and keeps in the fridge for friggin forever. If I can change to an almost 100% dry yeast homebrewery, I'll be a very happy guy. So that's the goal and background.

I've used Danstar Munich on a total of 18 hefeweizen brews and I like it a lot. So much that I've never tried the WB-06 (narrow-minded, I know). I ferment at 66 for 2 weeks and drink at 2 weeks in the bottle. I get clove, but no banana.

Been looking for a dry wit yeast. I found this and book marked it;

http://barleypopmaker.info/2014/09/02/a-case-for-dry-yeast-forget-the-stereotypes/

Safbrew WB-06

This yeast is specifically designed to be used with wheat beers. This yeast provides the clove phenol and banana esters one would look for in a heffeweizen style of beer. I have personally used this yeast in a heffeweizen with good results. Flocculation is low, as one would hope for in this type of yeast. The apparent attenuation is listed at about 86%, so you end up with a crisp refreshing beer. The working range of this yeast is 54°-77° F (12°-25° C) but ideally should be used at 64°-75° F (18°-24° C). I ferment this one at 68° and end up with a good amount of clove-like esters but the balance leans towards the banana esters. The beers you want to ferment with this yeast are the traditional heffeweizen beers, dunkelweizen, weizenbocks, Belgian Wit**.

To achieve the right ester/phenol levels consider the recommendation of fermenting slightly warmer or cooler.

*=Ferment on the warmer side of the scale

**= Ferment on the cooler side of the scale

Click to expand...

Munich Wheat Beer Yeast

I have zero personal experience with this yeast, but this is Lallemond’s version of WB-06 and I’m sure the characteristics and quality are similar. Munich Wheat is billed as a strain from Bavaria, Germany. Attenuation is medium to high and flocculation is pretty much non-existent, as would be expected in a hefeweizen yeast. The aroma is estery on both flavor and aroma and produces the typical banana esters. Some mild clove phenol production is also there. It’s best to use this yeast at about 62°F (17°C) and the more you vary from that sweet spot, the more ester and phenol production you will have.

Click to expand...

I used WB-06 recently in a Dunkelweizen as an emergency backup when my 1st choice liquid yeast was DOA. I used the Jamil recipe in Brewing Classic Styles, and fermented at a steady 72F and it turned out great. Very classic Dunkel flavor and aroma, an appropriate balance of esters.

I was worried after reading all the negative reviews of this yeast, but ended up being really happy with the beer. I served it at a gathering of friends and everyone enjoyed it.

So, the yeast may not be right for a Hefe, but I think it has it's place. Just my 0.02. PS this is the only time Ive used it, so don't have any other point of reference.

For me I was trying to replicate a Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen using WB-06, and just couldn't. I tried cool fermenting, warm fermenting, and a combination of both. It just comes out too crisp and tart. The beer is good, quite drinkable, but it's not a Weihenstephaner clone in any way...as I can create with Wyeast 3068 almost spot on (by fermenting at 17C/62F). I want to try Munich Classic at some stage, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.