Pitched at 90, and.... Bang !!

I brewed an IPA Sunday night and pitched at 90. I know I should let it cool more, but I've done this before with good results and needed the space to bottle my Dutch Dark, so I went ahead.

Last night, I came home to check on it and rotate my ice bottles out, and a little was coming out from under the lid of the bucket. It wasn't too much, so I didn't worry (this happened before also.) I re-secured the lid, cleaned out my airlock and changed the ice.

This morning, I went to change the ice again, and found a mess. The little guys were going nuts. Like on steroids. I'm not too worried about nasties getting in there, since the wind shear coming out of the bucket was so strong, I could barely get near it myself. When I took the airlock off, it was coming out faster than a shook-up can of Schlitz.

What I am concerned with, is that if they go on like this, am I going to have to re-pitch? Is it possible for the yeast to completely spend itself out?

Yeast LOVE warm temperatures. It will finish up fermentation really fast at a warm temperature- often within 24 hours. You definitely won't need more yeast.

Unfortunately, a warm temperature fermentation means the yeast go crazy, and get more active. When they get more active, they produce even more heat. And when they get warmer, they get more active and so produce even more heat. That means a sometimes explosive fermentation.

The only side effect from a too-warm fermentation is off flavors. If you can live with the off-flavors, then no worries. I can't, so I always pitch my yeast at 60-65 degrees.

Fermentation heats up. NO matter what.

You have to pitch low, like yooper said, to allow for at least a 3-4 degree warm up.

I am surprised you haven't had problems. First batch of banana IPA and you will unfortunately learn the hard way.

Vigorous fermentation is a bad thing.

After the brew, the temperature was dropping steadily for 30-40 minutes or so in an ice bath in the sink. I pitched at 90, and transferred to the rope-bucket-where-magical-things-happen, with more ice around it. I figured that by the time the little guys took hold, it would be much lower.

The water temp Sunday night was upper 50-low 60s, and has been steady there.

Dev110 said:

After the brew, the temperature was dropping steadily for 30-40 minutes or so in an ice bath in the sink. I pitched at 90, and transferred to the rope-bucket-where-magical-things-happen, with more ice around it. I figured that by the time the little guys took hold, it would be much lower.

The water temp Sunday night was upper 50-low 60s, and has been steady there.

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That seems alright to me and sometimes I pitch warm and then hit it with the ice if I'm feeling lazy. How big is that pail though? And how high did you fill it? Also, if this has been an issue before you should really think about rigging up an blowoff tube.

Ice bath is an ineffective chiller. The middle of the wort can be 120F while the outside of the bucket is cool.

I think the answer is in your blown bucket. Sorry, but you are wrong.

It's a "5" gallon bucket, with the 5 gal mark about 2-3 inches below the top. I knew that the yeast would raise the temperature, but I had no idea it could be that much of a difference. Gotta work on patience.


I think we're gonna need a bigger boat.

I used to pitch dry yeast at 80 and then put the brew in a cold spot, around 68-72 and let it go...

I never had problem but I think that was mostly due to the fact that I was brewing average ABV beers,,, nothing high.

I had my first top pop off recently doing a Kolsch where I pitched at about 85 (way over recommended) because I could not get the wort cooled enough::: BUT I did place it in a Fermentation Chamber (Freezer with controller) and all that happend was the top came off... no beer loss.

My big beers I have cast at 60 and let them warm up into the high 70s low 80s but they only spend a little time there.

From my reading I found a few breweries (Belgian) that let temps up in to the 80s to speed up the process but I have never heard anyone over 90...

You may be fine since I think there is a lot of "wiggle room" when homebrewing since some of use are not trying to reproduce the same taste each time but just be aware you could end up with some "heat produced flavors" that will not go away with aging.

cheezydemon3 said:

Ice bath is an ineffective chiller. The middle of the wort can be 120F while the outside of the bucket is cool.

I think the answer is in your blown bucket. Sorry, but you are wrong.

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So how do you control fermentation temps? There will always be a temperature gradient unless there's mixing or an internal chiller.

cheezydemon3 said:

Ice bath is an ineffective chiller. The middle of the wort can be 120F while the outside of the bucket is cool.

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Do you have actual evidence that the center of a fermenter could be 50-ish degrees higher than the water bath? That sounds pretty extreme.

cheezydemon3 said:

Ice bath is an ineffective chiller. The middle of the wort can be 120F while the outside of the bucket is cool.

I think the answer is in your blown bucket. Sorry, but you are wrong.

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I may be new to brewing, but this seems kind of blown out of proportion. There obviously can be a difference in temperature between the outside and the inside, but cool to the touch and 120 degrees a few inches inside of that would be next to impossible. There could be quite a few variants which could affect these temperatures (how sensitive the vessel is to heat/cooling).

But ultimately, if the ambient (this case a swamp cooler, water and frozen water bottles) temperature is much lower than that of the contents inside a non-conductive vessel. Plastic does not hold temperature nearly as good as say a steel pot would make it succumb to temperatures changes much easier. , than the internal temperature is going to be quite in line with what a stick on thermometer is ready.

If I'm pitching a bit warm and icing the carboy I like to shake it up once an hour if possible until bedtime to make sure it mixes up the cooler and warmer wort. Those numbers seem a bit out of reach but I guess I've never measured so I don't know. If you have it on ice water though once fermentation starts it will self stir itself and cool everything eventually. This is not ideal but it happens.

novaraz said:

So how do you control fermentation temps? There will always be a temperature gradient unless there's mixing or an internal chiller.

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Brew 4 gallons, Add 1 gallon of ice, chill to 60F, pitch, place in cool basement on cool floor.

brycelarson said:

Do you have actual evidence that the center of a fermenter could be 50-ish degrees higher than the water bath? That sounds pretty extreme.

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With no stirring? Surprised you haven't. The outside of the pot can be cold and the middle of the wort hot enough to burn you. You have to stir or shake or otherwise move the liquid or this heat differential is well documented.

inhousebrew said:

If I'm pitching a bit warm and icing the carboy I like to shake it up once an hour if possible until bedtime to make sure it mixes up the cooler and warmer wort. Those numbers seem a bit out of reach but I guess I've never measured so I don't know. If you have it on ice water though once fermentation starts it will self stir itself and cool everything eventually. This is not ideal but it happens.

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Interesting point, but it also heats as it stirs.

Topping up with ice works FANTASTICALLY for me.

My icemaker is evidently sanitary. Lucky me.

cheezydemon3 said:

With no stirring? Surprised you haven't. The outside of the pot can be cold and the middle of the wort hot enough to burn you. You have to stir or shake or otherwise move the liquid or this heat differential is well documented.

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so you're talking about while chilling wort from the boil? yeah, with no aggitation that's correct - I was talking about the temperature gain from the exothermic activity of the yeast. That's something on a very different scale.

Why the hell pitch yeast at such a high temp ?? If tou have nothing to cool it, then set it aside and pitch the next morning... In one way or the other since your not chilling the wort you won't have a cold break... I would pitch the next day dude, you have to respect the temps recomended by the yeast company... Delta +4 or -4 is the rule dude pitch at max 4 degrees difference. Etween your room temp and your wort temp...

According to the experts it is best to pitch your yeast slightly cooler than your desired fermentation temperature and allow to rise to the desired temperature creating a controlled growth phase. This is discussed by Chris White in the Book "yeast". This is the optimal way to pitch yeast.

As Yooper mentioned, yeast love higher temperatures but your beer's flavor can suffer because of the in controlled rate of fermentation and the off flavors that it can produce.

Any experienced brewer will tell you its better to pitch below your target fermentation temp. Like, I usually ferment all ales at 65 so ill pitch around 63. Its an ever loosing battle and you will never control your temps pitching at 90. There is too much chance of the lag time being too short and your beer never getting to the proper temperature before fermentation starts.

I prefer a nice slow and steady fermentation. You'd be surprised on how much better your beer will turn out.

Ok now for the opposite question. What if you pitch and ferment at a little lower temperature. My chamber/keezer is set at 11.9 C and I dont really want to mess with it. Pitched US-5 which says 15 to something. Since the fermentation will cause the temp to rise, will this temp be too low?

sethcros said:

Ok now for the opposite question. What if you pitch and ferment at a little lower temperature. My chamber/keezer is set at 11.9 C and I dont really want to mess with it. Pitched US-5 which says 15 to something. Since the fermentation will cause the temp to rise, will this temp be too low?

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Maybe, maybe not. Since fermentation produces heat, it may still be within the recommended temperature. A good way to work with your keezer is to set the temperature to the desired temperature, and put the temperature probed taped to to the side of the fermenter. That will help keep the actual fermentation temperature in range, and not the ambient.

The weird thing about S05 is that it gets weirdly peachy under 64 degrees F. It throws less esters warmer than cooler- but that yeast seems to be an aberration. If using S05, cooler is NOT better. 64-65 F is the lowest I'd go with that yeast strain.

Yooper said:

Maybe, maybe not. Since fermentation produces heat, it may still be within the recommended temperature. A good way to work with your keezer is to set the temperature to the desired temperature, and put the temperature probed taped to to the side of the fermenter. That will help keep the actual fermentation temperature in range, and not the ambient.

The weird thing about S05 is that it gets weirdly peachy under 64 degrees F. It throws less esters warmer than cooler- but that yeast seems to be an aberration. If using S05, cooler is NOT better. 64-65 F is the lowest I'd go with that yeast strain.

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Welp this is definitely trial and error. I just finished my keezer before this last brew. I had done the swamp cooler thing until now. I love this hobby!

sethcros said:

Welp this is definitely trial and error. I just finished my keezer before this last brew. I had done the swamp cooler thing until now. I love this hobby!

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